Risen will be full of bugs, i see they are using their own engine (again) and i am sure it will be with performance problems, i beat it will be no support for quad core and will lack of lot of optimization.
________
SUZUKI FR80 SPECIFICATIONS

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
However, I voted for Risen mostly because I suspect Jowood to be the main reason that G3 was released the way it was. My perception bolstered further by the condtion of the G3 addon.

Though Jowood is known for things like this, it is not true in this specific case.

Piranha Bytes has officially taken full responsibility for Gothic 3 and the condition it was released in, because having been too ambitious in the Gothic 3 design.

I take this as a good sign, because it means that they have learned.

I hope that both games will be good, but my experience in the last years was as follows:

Games which were either hyped or raised high expectations because of the developers involved have disappointed me (Oblivion, Mass Effect, NWN2…). Some of them were good, but not as good as expected.

Games which were not hyped or not connected with overly high expectations were the ones I really liked: The Witcher, Drakensang, Eschalon Book 1 are examples for that.

So for me the best strategy is: Don't expect that a game will be brilliant, simply enjoy it, if it turns out to be brilliant.

Edit: So I don't vote. My option would be: I hope both will be good, but I don't have any high expectations before playing the games or seeing reviews from people I trust (like the reviews made here, for example).

Originally Posted by wolfing
More like I don't care about the gameplay. First person meleers are not my cup of tea… at all. At least in Oblivion I could get by playing as a pure mage, creating my own spells and all, but you really can't do that in Gothic and by the looks of it, you can't in Risen either.

First person? So you have no clue about Gothic but are ready to pronounce judgment?

… need … more … data …

Anyway, are the release dates of both games even similar? Last I heard, Risen will appear end of 2009 and Gothic 4 beginning 2010, but that was a while ago.

Originally Posted by txa1265
First person? So you have no clue about Gothic but are ready to pronounce judgment?

Maybe not first person, what I mean is close combat melee (same with the Witcher for that matters), I just don't like it. I did try to play Gothic 1 and 2 despite that because of people saying it was so great, but couldn't get over the controls. Simply not the type of games for my taste I guess.

Originally Posted by bkrueger
Piranha Bytes has officially taken full responsibility for Gothic 3 and the condition it was released in, because having been too ambitious in the Gothic 3 design.

I respectfully disagree. This generation sees a lot of different people who make mistakes and then want to rectify it by going on record and 'taking responsibliity.' Politicians and famous people do this as a matter of routine. But 'taking responsibility' in most cases is simply a matter of lip service and nothing more.

Past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior. There are exceptions to this - but they are exceptions not the rule.

I might have been more willing to agree with your statement had FG never been released. But PB gave us a good dose of 'taking responsibility lip serverice' after G3 came out the way it did. Then PB did it again with FG - which is still supposed to be receiving more patching but it has been quiet now in that department for months so I'm not holding my breath.

I hope that I am wrong. I hope G4 will be a good game. But unlike G1, G2, & G3, I won't be pre-ordering G4. I will take a wait and see approach. That is the attitude PB has earned with me beginning with G3, but particularly with, and most stunningly from, the release of FG.

Just for the record:
Gothic 1 -Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher:Xicat
Gothic 2 -Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher:JoWooD
Gothic 3 -Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher:JoWooD
Gothic 3 FG-Developer:Trine Studios,Publisher:JoWooD
Gothic 4 a.k.a. Arcania-Developer: SpellBound,Publisher:JoWooD


Risen-Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher DeepSilver

My point is that Piranha Bytes should take no blame for FG.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
I might have been more willing to agree with your statement had FG never been released. But PB gave us a good dose of 'taking responsibility lip serverice' after G3 came out the way it did. Then PB did it again with FG - which is still supposed to be receiving more patching but it has been quiet now in that department for months so I'm not holding my breath.

I hope that I am wrong. I hope G4 will be a good game. But unlike G1, G2, & G3, I won't be pre-ordering G4. I will take a wait and see approach. That is the attitude PB has earned with me beginning with G3, but particularly with, and most stunningly from, the release of FG.

You should read Kostaz's post carefully. It's more than obvious you didn't get your facts straight before posting.

Originally Posted by Kostaz
My point is that Piranha Bytes should take no blame for FG.

That's a no-brainer. If their involvement in the project is 0%, their responsibility for the result is also 0%. FG was contract work by Trine Games for JoWooD.

Originally Posted by Gorath
That's a no-brainer. If their involvement in the project is 0%, their responsibility for the result is also 0%. FG was contract work by Trine Games for JoWooD.

Didn't Trine use G3's engine? Not sure, but I remember as such. So if PB would've built a solid game engine, Trine wouldn't have had as big a problem developing FG. Just saying. I'm all pro-PB, and of course Jowood are the main people to blame for wanting to cash-in some more of G3, but I'm just saying.

As far as I remember no-one forced Trine to use Genome and In fact I think that JW promised a brand new engine for G3's expansion.

Originally Posted by Kostaz
As far as I remember no-one forced Trine to use Genome and In fact I think that JW promised a brand new engine for G3's expansion.

I believe the very definition of an expansion is to expand on software already existent. Then I believe devs, or most probably publishers, came up with the stand-alone expansion, which is said to be an expansion but is more likely a sequel/prequel much smaller in scope to get cash from people that bought the original and from people that want to try the 'expansion' without buying the original. It's a clever move on their part. (Actually if I think about it, it's kinda like DLC)

So if Trine did make their own engine it would hardly be an expansion anymore. At least imo. The fact of the matter is Jowood didn't get all the revenue they wanted from G3's engine, so they made another attempt at stealing money from fans, desperate enough to believe that something worthwhile could come of it. So yeah, Jowood is mainly responsible. But PB also has its involvement, in however small a part.

Originally Posted by Kostaz
As far as I remember no-one forced Trine to use Genome and In fact I think that JW promised a brand new engine for G3's expansion.

An easy to see through marketing lie. Building their own engine would have meant a 24+ months development cycle. This was incompatible with the known facts. Especially that the add-on was so cheap that it wasn't even worth signing a non-complettion insurance.

Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus
I believe the very definition of an expansion is to expand on software already existent. Then I believe devs, or most probably publishers, came up with the stand-alone expansion, which is said to be an expansion but is more likely a sequel/prequel much smaller in scope to get cash from people that bought the original and from people that want to try the 'expansion' without buying the original.

Yes. The main point is extending the original's life cycle. Another add-on means another SKU plus another Gold Edition. Producing it for a low budget is key.

But PB also has its involvement, in however small a part.

Wrong. They had to hand over the G3 source code to JoWood and they had no chance to say "no" to the add-on because they were not asked. YMMV, but in Germany you are not responsible for the things other people do, given that everything is legal.
Good (community patches) or bad (FG), neither is PB's responsibility.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Wrong. They had to hand over the G3 source code to JoWood and they had no chance to say "no" to the add-on because they were not asked. YMMV, but in Germany you are not responsible for the things other people do, given that everything is legal.
Good (community patches) or bad (FG), neither is PB's responsibility.

Legally yes. But when it comes down to a train of sequences that lead to FG being released in a very poor state, PB were aboard in one of the wagons tied to that locomotive, which was driven by Jowood, and had Trine in the second wagon. Don't ask me how I came up with that stuff.

Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus
Legally yes. But when it comes down to a train of sequences that lead to FG being released in a very poor state, PB were aboard in one of the wagons tied to that locomotive, which was driven by Jowood, and had Trine in the second wagon. Don't ask me how I came up with that stuff.

So does id get credit for every 'good' game and blame for every 'bad' game based on the Q3A engine? Does Epic get blame for everything on the Unreal engine? They would have to by your model.

Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus
Legally yes. But when it comes down to a train of sequences that lead to FG being released in a very poor state, PB were aboard in one of the wagons tied to that locomotive, which was driven by Jowood, and had Trine in the second wagon. Don't ask me how I came up with that stuff.

This makes no sense. JoWooD had the power to trash this buggy engine, but they decided to use it again. PB were not involved at all. Neither did they make decision related to FG nor did they contribute to the project.

Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus
Legally yes. But when it comes down to a train of sequences that lead to FG being released in a very poor state, PB were aboard in one of the wagons tied to that locomotive, which was driven by Jowood, and had Trine in the second wagon. Don't ask me how I came up with that stuff.

That's ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Gorath
This makes no sense. JoWooD had the power to trash this buggy engine, but they decided to use it again. PB were not involved at all. Neither did they make decision related to FG nor did they contribute to the project.

It's simple. If PB would've delivered a good engine none of this would've happened. I'm not here to talk about who's to blame, personally I hold Jowood to be mainly responsible with PB taking some share of the blame, but if G3 were a hit, FG would've probably turned up developed by PB, in a better shape than what we got.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
That's ridiculous.

Is it, or is it so brilliant that your head is spinning?

Originally Posted by txa1265
So does id get credit for every 'good' game and blame for every 'bad' game based on the Q3A engine? Does Epic get blame for everything on the Unreal engine? They would have to by your model.

Yeah they do, and they mostly get only credit. And they should, shouldn't they? If they managed to make technology that is usable by a whole lot of people, and spare them the hassle of doing themselves they should get credit.

Originally Posted by Kostaz
Just for the record:
Gothic 1 -Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher:Xicat
Gothic 2 -Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher:JoWooD
Gothic 3 -Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher:JoWooD
Gothic 3 FG-Developer:Trine Studios,Publisher:JoWooD
Gothic 4 a.k.a. Arcania-Developer: SpellBound,Publisher:JoWooD


Risen-Developeriranha Bytes,Publisher DeepSilver

My point is that Piranha Bytes should take no blame for FG.

I absolutely agree.
It's JoWooD who insisted on releasing unpolished game, and not PB.
And I'm looking forward to more PB games, I don't care if they're released as planned, I want less bugs and flaws.

And I don't like when publishers take players for suckers.
For me, it's: JoWooD, goodbye forever!

I place my bets on Risen. No questions asked. Sure, I anticipate it will be buggy, but it's going to be the better one of the two. Okay, I can't really tell if it will be a better game, it's just what I expect. Although I'm pretty sure that Risen will be a better Gothic.

/rant/
I don't really think of Gothic 4 as of a Gothic game. Can Spellbound recreate the spirit of Gothic? Hm… it's not impossible, but it would be hard, and actually not a really sensible thing to do. Spellbound is not PB, so why should they pretend otherwise, instead of making something they *want* or *can* do? Besides, it's not Gothic, it's ArcaniA. Which doesn't mean that I won't buy the game if it's good… (unless I'll be feeling particularly bitter for some reason, haha, take that JoWood).

Risen. Risen. Risen is the new Gothic.
*chants*