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January 9th, 2008, 16:11
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
The Barcelona part, roughly the first half of the game, is actually excellent in my opinion. However, the second half of the game is a complete failure; my guess is the developers were out of money.

Just my opinion, of course.
I enjoyed it past there, but by the time you were in the northern caves and it was just battle after battle it was done …

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January 9th, 2008, 20:17
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Just my opinion, of course.
Not just yours…

(I have to admit I didn't really like the first half either though. I'm not sure why though, it had everything I'd like in a game. Maybe apart from absence of combat, you ALLWAYS ran into something when traveling through the wilderness…)

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January 10th, 2008, 02:24
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Hi and welcome. I'd suggest putting Lionheart at the bottom of your list; it got terrible reviews!!
Thanks for the welcome!!Thats why it's on the top of the list. I've always been one to save the better stuff for later!

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January 10th, 2008, 02:51
Madigan, your sig mentions a game you've created that's not in our database. Could you give us some details please!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 10th, 2008, 03:05
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Madigan, your sig mentions a game you've created that's not in our database. Could you give us some details please!!
It's just a DS Total conversion, There's tons of info over @ RPGDot including Screenshots, it is not completed however, after spending nearly 3 1/2 years on it, Life caught with me. I intend to finish it some day. it is nearly complete.

Info: http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsac…0075&games=937

Screenshots: http://newspics.rpgdot.com/galview.p…nshots&d4=&d5=

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January 10th, 2008, 06:46
Hmm…. strange that something from our old Dot database didn't make it here. Thanks for the links, haven't been back to the Dot in over a year; how time flies!!

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January 10th, 2008, 16:46
Hi all,

1. Wizardry 7 (first time I really felt in love with RPG)
2. Anachronox
3. Dungeon Master 1 (so many hours spent in my childhood)
4. Planescape: Torment
5. Wizardry 8
5. Daggerfall (for me the best from the series)
6. Arcanum
7. Lands of Lore 1
8. Vampire the Masquarade Bloodlines
9. Final Fantasy 7
10. Knights of the old Republic

Hmm, that's about it.
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January 10th, 2008, 23:15
welcome to the forums!

it always brings a smile to my face and a tear to my eyes when i see a fellow lover of anachronox.

also it gives me a craving for TACOs…
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January 11th, 2008, 07:05
Yes, welcome. Anachronox was a much under-rated game. I loved about 80% of it, disliking only the LONG slow moving first section and the final 'add-on' battle after you thought it was all finished!!

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January 11th, 2008, 08:17
As a long-time RPG fan and lurker of various rpg websites, I felt that I should post my list with some thoughts that I am sure have already been expressed. I will cheat the system and post series instead of games (where applicable).

1. Fallout 1 & 2 - Nothing matches this game for sheer atmosphere, the survivalistic feel and a good analysis of a society where all rules are stripped down, and are slowly being brought back. Masterpieces.

2. Planescape: Torment - While I typically do not consider video games to be art, this one is an exception.

3. Vampire the Masquerade - Another game with unbelievable atmosphere and that allows you to experience the sheer joy of being pretty eeeevil. Memorable characters and scenes.

4. Arcanum - Very innovative, despite much criticism. Combat is indeed clunky, but if you are willing to get past it, there is an amazing character system that forces you to make difficult choices (even at the end you are far from good at everything), and great questing and atmosphere.

5. KOTOR series - loved all of it, except the end of II which was rushed. Excellent voice acting and very very memorable characters, and some of the best stories in video games.

6. Gothic Series - very fun games with excellent wide-open worlds that are just the right size to make it manageable (especially for a person who wants to finish every quest and visit every location.)

7. Baldur's Gate 2, SoA - Despite being linear, this game is unparalleled in character development and interaction. Say what you want about Aerie and Jaheria, but you either loved the NPCs, or loved to hate them. And after all, you still remember them. ToB was dissapointing…

8. Deus Ex - Great story and atmosphere, and very underrated IMO

9. Morrowind - absolutely massive and stunning. Exploring this game has not been matched in any game I have played. And unlike Oblivion with its level scaling, I actually felt a great sense of accomplishment when I found an area or items way past my level in the game. Level scaling = teh suk.

10. Divine Divinity - Just recently discovered it and enjoyed it immensely. Combines a less clickfesty version of Diablo combat with a decent skill system and a very fun world. Phenomenal music really enhanced the game experience.

PS: This thread is great because it points me in the direction of some older RPGs that I plan to try. I discovered Divine Divinity thanks to these forums. GG RPGWatch.
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January 15th, 2008, 11:10
Love the lists so far! For me:

1. Legacy of the Ancients (C64) - First RPG I ever finished and still can play it to this day. Felt so immersed on it. Gamble, build skills, have to eat to stay alive. Loved the whole galactic museum thing. Kill guards and townspeople, open ended gameplay…ok enough plugging.

2. Bard's Tale I - Game was magic for me. Loved creating my party again and again. Game had great graphics for it's time. Good design, challenging!

3. Oblivion - I know, I know. But I like it okay? Love the graphics and sound. Love the voice acting. Love the art design (true "high fantasy" look and feel), love the sandbox format. I can just log on and walk for miles just looking and fighting random beasties. (Note: I use Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul MOD. Without it, this game may not be that high for me. Total converts the game, but that's another tale for another day.)

4. Baldur's Gate I - I loved this, but I play in multiplayed mode where I create all my own party members. I liked the Highlander inspired story, loved exploring, love D&D. Great combo!

5. Fallout - Loved the character creation, atmosphere, combat, character advancement. Good stuff.

6. Phantasie III - Anyone remember this one? I loved it! Just a generic fantasy adventure but I loved the nice touches on races, losing limbs in combat, death (being resurrected as an undead LOL), and gameplay. Lots of fun.

7. Bard's Tale II - I love Bard's Tale I, and this was it, just bigger. Wilderness, more towns, ranged combat, DEATH SNARES!

8. Wizardry 8 - Valiant attempt at bring back good ol' hardcore CRPGS. I liked the graphics, character advancement, and loved the combat. Fun!

9. Pool of Radiance (Original gold box version) - I loved this. First true D&D computer game experience. Loved the missions and combat.

10. Might and Magic III - This was the appearance of the new graphical engine for the M&M games, and I loved it. Wide open gameplay and addicting as well. Those riddles kept me up late at night!

Elementium, my indie retro CRPG

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January 15th, 2008, 11:49
Not only do I remember the Phantasie series, I have 1 & 3 on my HD. (2 was never released for PC, but I played it on the C64 ). Good stuff!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 15th, 2008, 18:53
Well, I panned a bunch in the other list, so I guess I'd better post here too!

1) Baldur's Gate II - I NEVER thought a game would replace Ultima VII as my favorite. I was shocked. The depth of the game (even if ToB became a bit of a hack fest) is unequaled. The clincher though was the ending. I had been very disappointed with the ending in BG I. The way that each characters tale was written based on the path you took and your interactions with them during the game gave a closure in a way I have not seen before or since.

2) Ultima VII - I'm going to lump the Black Gate and Serpent's Isle in together here because I played them straight though. Great depth, truly epic in length. Maybe they should have just ended the series here!

3) Legacy of the Ancients - for all the reasons the above poster mentioned! Great game, really wish they had made the sequel for the C64

4) Star Con 2 - Does it really qualify as RPG? I don't know but it felt like one! I was hesitant to play it, but my best friend told me he'd stop talking to me if I didn't give it a shot. Played it for about half an hour and then called him to thank him.

5) Ultima V - I'll include the Lazarus remake in here. Great depth of story, fantastic world where nearly everything could be used is some form. I spent 8 months with my best friend playing this game on an Apple IIc (granted it spent 2 months of that in the shop). If Ultima IV really introduced me to RPG's, this was the one that spurned the actual addiction.

6) Baldur's Gate - While waiting for Ultima IX to come out, I bought this to 'tide me over.' I had never actually played a AD&D game before. Definitely spawned my love of these types of games that has continued through to NWN2

7) Hero's Quest (Aka Quest for Glory)- Sure it's more action/adventure than a true RPG, but it had a lot of RPG elements and it was a nice change from the standard Sierra fare. I played the game through more times than I can count. Heck, I may go home and play it tonight!

8) Ultima IV - Really got me into RPG's. Gotta thank my big brother for this one. He played it, so there for I had to as well!

9) Icewind Dale - A little too linear for my taste normally, but deep enough story that I really ended up enjoying it. Only drawback was that the ending was pretty so-so once you killed the big boss.

10) Ultima Worlds of Adventure: Martian Dreams - Yeah, it was a cheesy concept, but I thought the game was a lot of fun and had such different content from the main Ultimas that I loved it. I was very excited when I had heard about the planned Arthurian Legends game for the next in the series and VERY disappointed when I heard it was canceled.

I will give an honorable mention to NWN2, because I think as hardware improves (making running it at top graphics much easier) and with a decent modding community, this could end up in the top-5.

One other note, as can be plainly seen, my RPG experience, while long, is pretty narrow. As the only kid on the block with a C64 (all my friends had Apple IIc's), I wasn't able to trade games with anyone. My brother and I usually could scrounge together enough cash for 2 or 3 games a year, plus a couple extra on our birthdays and Christmas. So, we generally stuck to the series, or publishers, that we knew since we didn't want to waste any money! I always wanted to play the SSI games, but when it was an Origin (or Sierra) game or SSI, SSI always lost out.

So, I'm very glad to have found this site. The exposure to so many different RPG's, both old and new, that I've never heard of, especially the indi titles, is great! I can't tell you how many times I've dropped in a Best Buy or EA games and stared at the RPG's looking for something that might peak my interest and walked away with nothing. The reviews on Amazon aren't much help either I've found.
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May 11th, 2008, 11:06
I had to look for a thread like this, because I already posted about the CRPGs I didn't like, and this definitely needs a counterbalance. After all, I love CRPGs .

I have to say upfront that I never played any DOS RPGs, so these won't show up on my list. My first own computer was an Atari 1040 ST I bought in '88, and I only played Sierra adventures on that one. My first PC already ran Win 98SE, which means that I came very late to this pastime. But let's start with the CRPGs:
  1. Baldur's Gate w/ Tales of the Sword Coast: Technically, this has been the first CRPG I ever played, but my first attempt ended badly. I didn't know anything about (A)D&D, my chars were not well suited for first level, and after being killed several times by wolves and ogres, my small party seemed to reach the security of a tavern, only to be repeatedly decimated by some obnoxious wizard. I shelved it. Fortunately, I started over after I had beat a different game, and Baldur's Gate grew to be my most favorite CRPG ever. I like the relatively free exploration, I loved the NPCs I could take along, the mix of dungeons and overland travel, and finally the big city, where you met danger and hilarity alike. I also like low level AD&D very much. I've played through the game several times, and BGTutu helped to keep it fresh.
  2. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn: This is nearly up there with my number one, but BG1 has the nostalgic factor on its side. Plus, this game starts in a dungeon that nearly killed it for me. I hated that start. But as soon as my party entered the big city, I fell in love. I love the story, the locales, the wonderful NPC interactions, even those with the irritating NPCs. The end is not that great, but I enjoy the bulk of the game immensely. It's also surprising that there are still mods coming out after all these years. It's a great game without any important flaws. You may notice that I didn't mention ToB; ToB is ok, but not great in my eyes.
  3. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind/Tribunal/(Bloodmoon): On one hand, this is a deeply flawed game with balance difficulties and a static world, but on the other hand, it managed to captivate me for one and a half years. The world in that game is absolutely fascinating. Also, it is the only game that I know where all those ingame books are actually worth reading. Just go to the Imperial Library and see for yourself, if you skipped them during the game. It's a colorful world, exotic, with many factions. The game contains ambivalence and no well defined good and evil. Even the evil end boss is, in one way, a tragic figure, but the same can be said for those on the putatively "good" side. It's a refreshing break from many RPG clichés.
    Funny enough, the bad game balance worked in my favor, which might contribute to my liking of the game. I chose the worst starting class imaginable, a pure mage. You cannot play a pure mage in Morrowind. Instead of starting over, I made the best out of the situation. I had to solve many quests in a non-violent way (which actually works in Morrowind, unlike in Oblivion), and I could not enter a Daedric ruin prior to level 23 or so. But this kept the game fresh for a long time.
    And then I discovered the editor! But that's a very long story. Editor and mods kept me going for a long time.
    I put the Bloodmoon expansion in parentheses, because I don't care much for it.
  4. The Witcher: Ok, this might be a bit preliminary, as I just finished it, but I'm still full in awe for this game. It's not perfect, it has lots of flaws in localization, combat, character development, and towards the end, but the sum is nevertheless captivating in a way I haven't felt in a long time. I think it's the story that carries this game to a level that is not reached by many other CRPGs. It's a very good translation of a successful book into a sweeping action flow, and I hope that the EE will polish the game somewhat more. It definitely deserves it.
  5. Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: In principle, this game doesn't deserve of this place. It's unfinished. And it's pretty obvious that it's unfinished, with many loose ends, an empty end location and maps that promise things that could have been. Plus, the company refused to admit that it's unfinished, which I usually shouldn't let slip. However, this game also manages to suck me in unlike many others. I really love the first two thirds, although this turned into red hot anger during the end. Funny enough, I still had the same emotions on my second play through. Funny enough, there was a second play through! Well, I have to admit that I like the game. It's not so terribly "Star Warsy", with a strict black and white dichotomy between good and evil. Which makes it a much more interesting game in my eyes. It's really sad that this wasn't finished. Let's hope that this changes some day.
  6. Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic: In principle, this is a much more polished game, and I greatly enjoyed it when I first played it. This is the game that revitalized my interest in the Star Wars franchise. This was the best thing that has happened to Star Wars since the first two films. This game tells a story, and it tells it well. It's pretty linear, and it's more like an adventure with roleplaying elements, but it was exciting, and that's important for my enjoyment. The replay value is minimal. The evil way is nothing for me, because I cannot enjoy this petty and dumb way you have to do this in this game. Nevertheless, it earned its place.
  7. Might & Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven: Here it comes, the first CRPG I really finished. And immediately played once more . And a long game it is, indeed. The graphics are pretty horrible in this game. I usually prefer a nicely rendered 2D background to such a blocky 3D one. But that's not important. The detail in this game is fine and manages to invoke the right mood in every location you go. The music is nice, the dungeons are absolutely great, and the story, though not overly inventive, is cool. I even like the fantasy/sci-fi mix very much. I love this game, and I would play it again; that's why it's here on the list.
    I know that many people prefer MM7 to this one, but I found the inclusion of elves and dwarves more like tired clichés, and even the better implementation of different paths, the stronghold or Acromage could help me over the fact that MM7 was pretty much the same as MM6, but didn't captivate me as much. And let's not forget the nostalgia factor .
  8. Ultima Online: I had to include this, because this is my only foray into Ultima territory. It's also the only MMORPG I ever played, and I had been a pretty avid player around the time Third Dawn was released. In the end, this game ate too much of my time and I swore to never touch any MMO again. But I have to admit that the game had everything to keep its players happy. Quests, monsters, PvP, crafting, everything was well thought out and worked fine. The guild I co-founded was one of the leading guilds on that shard for years. It still exists today, btw., with still the same leader . I left after half a year, though, because it was too much of a timesink. Not the game's fault, though.
  9. Icewind Dale/Heart of Winter/Trials of the Luremaster: Well, here we come to a region that is not that close to my heart anymore. Icewind Dale had a wonderful atmosphere and great music, and that is probably what kept me playing. The dialog was a bit simple at times. Nevertheless, this game is very well suited to cooperative play, because it lacks a protagonist as the BG series has. There's no stepping on each others' feet. A nice landscape and fine dungeons, combined with challenging battles, make for a good experience. Although, some of the places were a bit annoying, like the Severed Hand, where I took a break from the game. But in the end, I liked the game.
  10. Neverwinter Nights + Expansions: I didn't like the original campaign of this one, and the expansions had also some problems. But in the end, this game has a nice editor that brought people to make hundreds of modules that were often better than the official ones. So, this is a point for potential .
Let's not forget some honorable mentions: Divine Divinity stood out for its music and its story, and Arx Fatalis was one of the few dungeon crawls I actually liked, although the game was a bit empty, but the magic system was awesome!
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May 11th, 2008, 11:12
Originally Posted by Turjan View Post
Let's not forget some honorable mentions: Divine Divinity stood out for its music and its story, and Arx Fatalis was one of the few dungeon crawls I actually liked, although the game was a bit empty, but the magic system was awesome!

Yep, Arx Fatalis was definitely underrated, the game had tremendous atmosphere. Shame about the lack of a sequel……
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May 11th, 2008, 15:52
Excellent list, Turjan. My experience is also coming to cRPGs after the introduction of Windows, and we have a very similar list—except for KotOR which I think I'm just not enough of a Star Wars fan to appreciate. Might & Magic VI was my first cRPG and still holds a place in my heart, but I think it's been edged out a bit over the years by MM7. And I also have placed The Witcher on my updated list—it just has to be there.

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May 11th, 2008, 19:24
Well, I'm doing this in the reversed order. Rpg is by far my favourite type of games so it was pretty hard to narrow it down to 10 and I can't leave it without a honorble mention which goes to:

Baldur's Gate 1 which is a great game played in EasyTutu conversion with BG1 NPC mod,
Chaos Strikes Back which is one of the finest examples of oldschool hardcore rpg,
Albion which had pretty original setting with interesting and long storyline,
Ultima Underworld 1-2 which was not only technicially very impressive for the time of its release, but it also had good story, interesting puzzles and lots of atmosphere,
and Might & Magic 3 with all of its cool puzzle/riddle ridden dungeons.

Here's my top 10:

10. Arx Fatalis - this is a quite flawed game in some aspects but it has such great atmosphere that I can easily forget about them, I love those crypts!

9. System Shock 2 - great setting, interesting way of storytelling, well maintained atmosphere, interesting character development, this game is scary, along with Deus Ex my favourite sci-fi rpg

8. Deus Ex - well told and engaging story, interesting character development with some quite painful choices to be made by player, really a lot of possibilities how to solve problems, this is the game which was the most succesful at making me feel like I'm really there

7. Gothic - rather small but very detailed world, great story, cool characters, some nice puzzles, atmospheric dungeons, engaging combat, nuff said

6. Ultima 7 - this is a huuuge game, Black Gate is great for free-roaming, Serpent's Isle has more interesting world and is better focused storywise, though sometimes it's quite unclear what to do next. Showing the wooden sword to a dog was a bit too much for me, without a hint I would be probably stuck there forever. Lot of good dialogues, twists in the story and possibilities to interact with world easily make up for a bit weaker character development and messy inventory.

5. Wizardry 8 - I was playing the game without a walkthrough and it was quite frustrating experience because of all that combat standing in the way of continuing the story/solving puzzles, especially when I wasn't sure what to do/where to go next. Subsequent runs were much more fun for me because I could concentrate more on character development which is the game's main strength. There are some interesting mods for it, with Dodd's mod being by far my favourite.

4. Gothic 2 with NotR expansion - the expansion make the second Gothic a really great game. Lots of cool characters, challenging combat, superb terrain topology with some really atmospheric places. Chapters 1-3 are top notch, chapter 4 is great fun with Biff along, chapter 5 and especially the last one are pretty unsatisfying
though and I always breeze through them.

3. Baldur's Gate 2 - with a lot of great mods out there, this game has immense replayability value. I wouldn't rank the vanilla version that high because its main story is a bit on the weaker side and some recruitable characters are a bit underdeveloped in comparison with some others. Still, it is really impressive game.

2. Wizardry 7 - this game was insane. Great character development, massive world with carefully designed dungeons, all kinds of puzzles - not only the usual buttons, levers, keys but also adventure game types as well, covering the whole difficulty scale, strategic combat. Really, this rpg had it all. Without a walkthrough, it took me almost a year to finish.

1. Planescape: Torment - the only computer game which really moved me. Very original setting, ton of interesting characters/encounters, absolutely superb recruitable characters, awesomely astonishing storyline, well words fail me when I'm trying to describe this gem. This is a great piece of art and absolute pinnacle in computer game storytelling. After I've finished the game for the first time, I just sat silently for the whole night and thought about it all. All other games seemed so mundane in comparison!
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May 11th, 2008, 21:02
DeepO - good list with excellent short descriptions.

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May 12th, 2008, 00:31
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yep, Arx Fatalis was definitely underrated, the game had tremendous atmosphere. Shame about the lack of a sequel……
The simultaneous Morrowind release hurt somewhat. And there were some bugs that the reviewers didn't like. But yes, the atmosphere was excellent.
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
Excellent list, Turjan. My experience is also coming to cRPGs after the introduction of Windows, and we have a very similar list—except for KotOR which I think I'm just not enough of a Star Wars fan to appreciate. Might & Magic VI was my first cRPG and still holds a place in my heart, but I think it's been edged out a bit over the years by MM7. And I also have placed The Witcher on my updated list—it just has to be there.
I watched the first Star Wars film when it came to the movies, so it was very influential on my appreciation of sci-fi and fantasy. On the other hand, most of the Star Wars circus doesn't interest me. I just loved those games, because they were something new and unspoiled with a similar feel to the first movies.

Anyway, there are so many good games around that there's something to love for everyone. I still want to play Planescape Torment one day, because it sounds like it is right up my alley, but I didn't like the morbid atmosphere of the beginning. I'd like to try the English version, but it's a bit expensive nowadays. I would also have to hunt down the patch for the version I have; I think it's unplayable without that one. One day it will happen .
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May 12th, 2008, 21:21
It's definitely worthwhile to make the effort with Planescape:Torment, particularly if you liked the murky moral world of The Witcher,along with a high level of NPC scripting and character development. I'm gearing up for my first ever replay—one of a kind RPG, for sure.

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