|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Top 10 CRPGs of all time

Default Top 10 CRPGs of all time

March 15th, 2014, 02:13
Yeah, after a while they all seem to run together. The ones that stand out and I most remember, can be for bad reasons.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#661

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 10,314

Default 

March 15th, 2014, 03:22
The problem is also people evolves in their preferences, tastes or anything, it makes it complicated. That's also why it's tempting to theorize and make it sort of objective, I don't believe in this but that's just an opinion.

For the bad reasons, it can be why I don't believe much in trying a very objective path. The bad reasons is already theorization, you got the fun… but for bad reasons… or perhaps because you haven't identified well why the fun, or you let your opinion be influenced by something/someone, or woo that dev team is too good/bad it can only be good/bad, and any reflex like that more or less conscious.
Ihaterpg is offline

Ihaterpg

Banned

#662

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 480

Default 

March 18th, 2014, 17:45
Originally Posted by Zaleukos View Post
Gothic 1
Gothic 3
Did you play Gothic 2, and if so what didnt you like about it? I ask because Gothic 1 was one of my all-time favorite games, but for some reason I just couldnt get into Gothic 2 (even with NotR) even though it is generally thought of as the best of the 3 games. I just found it dreadfully boring running around the farms for the first chapter, so that by the time I got to Chapter 2 (I think it was Chapter 2 I got to…It was the one where you have to run to the Orc camp)
Nukester is offline

Nukester

Nukester's Avatar
Watcher

#663

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 85

Default 

March 18th, 2014, 19:56
Originally Posted by Nukester View Post
Did you play Gothic 2, and if so what didnt you like about it? I ask because Gothic 1 was one of my all-time favorite games, but for some reason I just couldnt get into Gothic 2 (even with NotR) even though it is generally thought of as the best of the 3 games.
I actually felt the same way the first time I played Gothic 2, and I didn't end up finishing it. That was with the vanilla version though. I think part of the problem was the sky-high expectations I had after playing Gothic 1.

Gothic2+NotR however is easily one of my favorite crpgs of all time. Imo, it improves on the vanilla game in every way. The atmosphere, exploration, and music are all top-notch. Maybe you just need to give it another try after all this time has passed.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#664

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 18,232

Default 

March 18th, 2014, 21:52
Originally Posted by Nukester View Post
Did you play Gothic 2, and if so what didnt you like about it? I ask because Gothic 1 was one of my all-time favorite games, but for some reason I just couldnt get into Gothic 2 (even with NotR) even though it is generally thought of as the best of the 3 games. I just found it dreadfully boring running around the farms for the first chapter, so that by the time I got to Chapter 2 (I think it was Chapter 2 I got to…It was the one where you have to run to the Orc camp)

Gothic 2 is still bloody excellent (it'd probably tie for spot 11 with Baldurs Gate 2), just not quite in my top ten as far as enjoyment goes.

Largely balancing of NotR made the late game a chore, especially as I had played through vanilla G2 twice. My NotR playthrough ended once Dragon Snappers populated all the maps, and I never picked it up again.

Generally I loved G1 as a fresh experience, I liked G3's open world and the humour. I have replayed those two more times than G2.

Note that I rate the Risen games well lower than G2, even if they still are good. I'd put them on par with DAO, Arcanum and the original Fallouts. Right after those games I'd put Kotor 1 and NWN. The IWD's would also be thereabouts.
Zaleukos is offline

Zaleukos

Zaleukos's Avatar
Bum

#665

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,872

Default 

March 19th, 2014, 01:22
I believed that G2 vanilla has the reputation to be quite too easy and that NotR fixed it. I played G1 after G2+NotR and G1 is clearly a lot easier (but yeah I played G2+NotR 3 times fully, once with each class, so there's perhaps a problem when after I tried play G1). I know it's not the right order but objectively I doubt G2+NotR is a chore in comparison of G1.

As I never played fully G1 I'm not objective but I have high doubt that it's better to suggest play G1 more than G2+NotR.
Ihaterpg is offline

Ihaterpg

Banned

#666

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 480

Default 

March 19th, 2014, 09:13
Originally Posted by Ihaterpg View Post
I believed that G2 vanilla has the reputation to be quite too easy and that NotR fixed it. I played G1 after G2+NotR and G1 is clearly a lot easier (but yeah I played G2+NotR 3 times fully, once with each class, so there's perhaps a problem when after I tried play G1). I know it's not the right order but objectively I doubt G2+NotR is a chore in comparison of G1.

As I never played fully G1 I'm not objective but I have high doubt that it's better to suggest play G1 more than G2+NotR.
I admittedly never sought challenging combat, and found the difficulty of G1 and vanilla G2 about right for my taste. I know many hard core gamers want a higher difficulty though

My issues were specifically with late game combat against groups of dragon snappers. IIRC the chapter where I stopped was playing out as:

1) Move 100m
2) Fight a group of dragon snappers, lose 70% of your health, heal up or go to a place where you can rest.
3) Goto 1

Combine that with late game character development being very expensive in terms of LP, me already having seen most of the late game story while playing vanilla, and I just shelved the game.

The main new content of NotR (Jharkendar and extra story elements) was very good though.
Zaleukos is offline

Zaleukos

Zaleukos's Avatar
Bum

#667

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,872

Default 

March 19th, 2014, 11:21
Yeah, the difficulty is a bit over the top unless you really min/max your character. Mages suffer the most, who often end up having to find a bed to sleep in after killing a grand total of.. one monster. Mana cost is so high they can barely afford more than 2-3 spells, and there's no such thing as mana regeneration.

That's pretty much my only annoyance with G2 NotR though, as it's still one of my all time favourites. Probably at the very top with BG2.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#668

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,655
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

March 19th, 2014, 18:54
While G2 is my second favorite computer "game" of all time, I too did not like the last map(chapter). Going to some small island to battle the boss monster was not done in the same vein as the rest of the game. First you had to battle the raptors and then you had a whole bunch of puzzles before your final battle. On my last play through, I stopped after I landed on the isle.
Dajjer is online now

Dajjer

Dajjer's Avatar
SasqWatch

#669

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,044

Default 

March 19th, 2014, 19:44
Ok I hadn't understood Zaleukos post, seriously it could have been more explicit. I had also forgot the names of Saurians. Well what to say? For me one of the hugest elements of G2+NotR are Saurians, even when you have improved your char significantly they still keep a unique threaten aspect that no other enemies succeed keep.

The greatest point with saurians isn't to erase them but how manage them. I admittedly reloaded many time G2+NotR because of various death including multiple from Saurians. But G2+NotR is a game where the mechanisms involve to save often.

But the point is one of major role of Saurians isn't to kill them even if fight them can have fun, it's to define threaten chock-points in the areas. They make stealth a lot more intense, they contribute to build threatening areas very well, they build paths constraints through a rather different tool than just a basic obstacles, they bring multiple tricks to find on how manage them to lower the fight difficulty or even have them killed by other enemies or have them kill other enemies. Another layout they add to the game is managing your mercenary and increasing constraints when you use a mercenary.

In fact a big point of G2+NotR is to make you travel in enemy territory. It's not about encounter all enemies and kill them which is conquering and traveling in conquered territory. But it's about enemies to not beat and still enemies you have to manage by special paths, with stealth, with tricks, and some more. A little flaw of the game is to fail do it very well with the Orcs armies, but with Saurians the game succeed rather well or at least better.

If you played Saurians as a "must kill" duty then I'm not surprised you couldn't enjoyed G2+NotR. Sorry to say you that but as the teacher I throw your work copy to trash, bad job Sir Zaleukos you have to redo all. And please stop comment a game you failed play with eyes opened. :-)

And for the note, I also don't like games too difficult, in that series the perspective is a bit different because the learning curve is rather long. And a failure of the series is probably to have failed mostly to build the learning curve along multiple releases of the series. They probably tried more in G3 but failed with too many absurdities in combats and enemies designs. In fact in my opinion is it's the major failure of Risen series and why myself I couldn't keep the interest high enough to play it up to finish it.
Ihaterpg is offline

Ihaterpg

Banned

#670

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 480

Default 

March 19th, 2014, 19:50
Originally Posted by Dajjer View Post
While G2 is my second favorite computer "game" of all time, I too did not like the last map(chapter). Going to some small island to battle the boss monster was not done in the same vein as the rest of the game. First you had to battle the raptors and then you had a whole bunch of puzzles before your final battle. On my last play through, I stopped after I landed on the isle.
There's saurians? I remember more the various rude orcs or special enemies.

The problem I have with this part in replays was a too low difficulty and no I don't like too difficult games. It's probably a sort of error of the game, you can hyper optimize your character but the first play, except if you follow some guides or detailed advices, you'll miss most of the optimization. And at replay when you need a higher difficulty because you are starting mastering the combats from the skills point of view, it's also a lot easier to optimize and then makes a huge difference with first play.
Ihaterpg is offline

Ihaterpg

Banned

#671

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 480

Default 

March 19th, 2014, 22:47
Originally Posted by Ihaterpg View Post
If you played Saurians as a "must kill" duty then I'm not surprised you couldn't enjoyed G2+NotR. Sorry to say you that but as the teacher I throw your work copy to trash, bad job Sir Zaleukos you have to redo all. And please stop comment a game you failed play with eyes opened. :-)
Except for that the last island is pretty linear with unavoidable fights with fairly large groups of Saurians

I'm not claiming to be right, I just didnt find the gameplay very entertaining at that point. I didnt see an entertaining challenge but rather a mixture of systematic kiting and potion spamming.

I wont stop commenting PB games, I've sunk way too many hours into them As a series Gothic 1-3 would be near the very top for me. And PB is among my favourite developers, right behind Obsidian and CDPR.

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Yeah, the difficulty is a bit over the top unless you really min/max your character. Mages suffer the most, who often end up having to find a bed to sleep in after killing a grand total of.. one monster. Mana cost is so high they can barely afford more than 2-3 spells, and there's no such thing as mana regeneration.

That's pretty much my only annoyance with G2 NotR though, as it's still one of my all time favourites. Probably at the very top with BG2.
Various types of regeneration is a feature that I really appreciate in modern games. Make it slow enough to not affect combat balance, and you can spend your time on intense combat rather than backtracking to beds.
Zaleukos is offline

Zaleukos

Zaleukos's Avatar
Bum

#672

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,872

Default 

March 20th, 2014, 08:09
Originally Posted by Zaleukos View Post
Except for that the last island is pretty linear with unavoidable fights with fairly large groups of Saurians.
Yeah, but luckily it isn't very long, and it only accounts for a very small percentage of the overall game.

I don't remember fighting Saurians on that last island though. I recall it being groups of Orc warriors and shamans.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#673

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 18,232

Default 

March 20th, 2014, 13:09
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
The thing is, what makes an CRPG most memorable to me doesn't necessarily make it the most fun to play. Coming up with a list that I know is more than just fond memories requires a lot of analysis.
I think that it has a lot to do with emotions.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR

#674

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 16,036

Default 

March 20th, 2014, 14:35
I just want to point out one thing:
Saurians are the green lizard people of Risen 1. In Gothic 2 it's simply the red lizards called Lizardmen or some such thing. The last island has orcs followed by a troll, lizards followed by a dragon, some undead, a maze/puzzle and finally a bunch of Seekers. Roughly.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#675

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,655
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

March 20th, 2014, 16:53
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
I just want to point out one thing:
Saurians are the green lizard people of Risen 1. In Gothic 2 it's simply the red lizards called Lizardmen or some such thing. The last island has orcs followed by a troll, lizards followed by a dragon, some undead, a maze/puzzle and finally a bunch of Seekers. Roughly.
That's about right, but don't forget the tedium laid throughout.

G2 set up this wonderful living world with people and animals and monsters doing their own thing and then you get to this island that is basically set up on rails. At least G3 kept you in the same world for its final climax.

I finished G2 last year (for the 3rd or 4th time). I put in about 160 hours but only put in about an hour in that last isle before I gave the game up. I wasn't exploring and discovering, I was basically just in constant battle. It just wasn't fun to replay.
Dajjer is online now

Dajjer

Dajjer's Avatar
SasqWatch

#676

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 1,044

Default 

March 20th, 2014, 18:06
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yeah, but luckily it isn't very long, and it only accounts for a very small percentage of the overall game.

I don't remember fighting Saurians on that last island though. I recall it being groups of Orc warriors and shamans.
It had both (as per Maylander's summary).

Why is it that so many great RPGs have a crappy endgame?
Zaleukos is offline

Zaleukos

Zaleukos's Avatar
Bum

#677

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,872

Default 

March 20th, 2014, 19:07
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
I just want to point out one thing:
Saurians are the green lizard people of Risen 1. In Gothic 2 it's simply the red lizards called Lizardmen or some such thing.
Ah that's right… they're referred to as Saurians by some NPCs, but most variations show as "Lizardman" when highlighted.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#678

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 18,232

Default 

May 11th, 2014, 10:08
Top 70 Codex list with user reviews:

The list.


Good read & artwork (click on the banners for high resolution screenshots) for all CRPG enthusiasts.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#679

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,539

Default 

May 11th, 2014, 10:52
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Top 70 Codex list with user reviews:

The list.


Good read & artwork (click on the banners for high resolution screenshots) for all CRPG enthusiasts.
There are some great rpgs in that list. And, oh no, I'm getting the 'get back into rpgs' vibe. Must resist.
danutz_plusplus is offline

danutz_plusplus

danutz_plusplus's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#680

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,152

Tags
crpg, top 10
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Top 10 CRPGs of all time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:41.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch