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June 2nd, 2014, 23:55
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
And no, I don't think it's more realistic either.
If you are awake 99% of the fight and then you have two enemies, the one beats you unconcious and the other one dies out of reflective damage, it doesn't make any sense that you don't get xp for it.
And what if you're knocked out for 99% of the fight?

I think you're too hung up on the idea of all your characters having the exact same amount of XP all the time.
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June 3rd, 2014, 00:09
Just to answer on something asked on the previous page.
I never liked Star Wars in a way others did. Sure, it was a rare sci fi on a big screen and that ment a must watch for me. But did I really enjoy it so much? Sorry, but no - I was a child and still all those things felt too childish to me. And of course, if I didn't watch SW, I would never be able to fall in love with Spaceballs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJq8co38Pk

On the other hand, I've adored both Kotor games. Why? Well… You know me so the answer is pretty easy, let's just start with the ability to save the game anywhere on the map.

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June 3rd, 2014, 00:12
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
And what if you're knocked out for 99% of the fight?
I think you're too hung up on the idea of all your characters having the exact same amount of XP all the time.
Well, the case with the 99% doesn't really happen.
I mean I loved both games. Just saying that this is a game mechanic out of game design hell
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June 3rd, 2014, 00:52
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Well, the case with the 99% doesn't really happen.
I mean I loved both games. Just saying that this is a game mechanic out of game design hell
It's only hell if you're obsessive about it. I sometimes reload if a character dies, but it's because the character died.. not because I lost out on some XP that's probably going to be insignificant in the long run anyways.
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June 3rd, 2014, 00:58
Ok, so you think this mechanic adds anything to the game and it's "improved" by having these xp losses?
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June 3rd, 2014, 02:39
How is it improved by not having them? That's only less incentive to keep your party members alive, and most modern games are already too forgiving when it comes to death.
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June 3rd, 2014, 02:52
That might be the case for Avernum. But not for M&M, because there you can rezz during the combat as often you want. Death means nothing in this game.

The ONLY thing it changes is that you need to rezz BEFORE your other unit kills the enemy. Because then you get the xp. If you rezz before your unit is rezzed, he doesn't get xp. In addition you might want to avoid counterattacks.
And while penatlies for dieing might be up to discussion, penalties for being stunned are not imho.

The case in which XP losses happened in my game were hardly deaths.
It mostly were scenarios like:
-I finish my turn
-Enemy A attacks Member A and stuns him
-Enemy B attacks Member B, causes reflection or counterattack and kills itself by doing so.

So the game emphazises that you do everything you can to avoid bringing your opponent down to "just" 5% hp. Because then it might kill itself and stunned opponents lose xp. You should either kill it completely or only bring it down to like 30%.

The game has tons of enemies which have a chance to stun. So the alternative is to get stun immune instead. Not because of the stuns, but because of the xp loss leading to insane loading times.
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June 3rd, 2014, 03:24
You lost me with all that… I don't even know what game your example is from because you didn't say.

Whether or not you can resurrect during combat has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I can't think of any party-based games that don't feature resurrection of some kind.
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June 3rd, 2014, 03:49
Example is from MMX, where a Death equals a sleep or a stun.
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June 3rd, 2014, 04:10
Ah ok. Well that sounds like it could be poor game design in that particular case. I can't really comment on it because I haven't played M&M X yet. I've heard quite a few people talk about balance issues with that game though.
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June 3rd, 2014, 10:54
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Well, yes. It is shown, but it's not shown "in your face"
I mean you won't realize it until when you actually see that the XP of different characters is extremely different.
Uhh, I corrected you on this and you still claim that the player won't notice the difference? It's pretty clear that the game tells you. Honestly, it stands out quite strongly, I don't know how much more "in your face" it could be without being exaggerated and unwelcome.

Also, I agree with JDR, if one relaxes a little more and just goes with the flow, your xp balance is bound to sort itself out. Having said that, I'm only into Act II, so what do I know really?

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Stick with Kotor if you can if only for the role-playing opportunities. There's a fantastically detailed "whodunnit" side-quest in it which reminded me of the intricacies of a couple of the early Ultima VII quests. I think the game is well worth your time given you're a huge Bioware fan. Also, watching the films would definitely help your interest and immersion (or not hehe) in the lore of the setting.

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June 3rd, 2014, 11:45
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
Example is from MMX, where a Death equals a sleep or a stun.
That's simply not true…..
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June 3rd, 2014, 19:57
Oh jesus…I just tried to make my point as clear as possible.

But apparently that doesn't work, so I give up. Neither do I want to waste any more time on that nor do I want to derail this thread which originally was about something completely different, any further.
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June 3rd, 2014, 22:27
@pessimeister: I will try! I really hope things get more enjoyable soon. You got me with "Bioware game fan" bit

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July 13th, 2014, 23:55
So, I decided to update my top 10 RPGs list since I have been playing a lot of the classic RPGs on PC. I still have a LOT of classics to get to, but right now here is how my top 10 would stand.

(Keep in mind these are subject to change based on my mood that particular day )

A Console-turned-PC Gamer's Top 10 RPGs of All-time!

1 - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (PC) - This game just oozes atmosphere. I really enjoyed the choices and consequences and exploring a wonderfully detailed urban setting. The story was gripping, the dialog was the most well-written I've ever seen and the setting was well-realized. Best game I've ever played.

2 - Chrono Trigger (SNES) - I played this game in my childhood and it was one of my first RPGs, so I have a lot of fond memories of it. It still stands up today as a great game with colorful characters, a fascinating setting and great gameplay.

3 - Final Fantasy VII (PS1) - This game defined my childhood. Up until this game came out, I really have never seen anything like it. It blew me away then and still does today. Also the first game where the game timer clocked at 99 hours, 99 minutes and 99 seconds for months on end. An extremely memorable experience for me.

4 - Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition (PC) - I'm currently playing this game and already it has made it's way into my top 5 of all-time. The great magic and loot systems, interesting characters, tactical combat and grand exploration make this one of the best games I've ever played. Probably the most nerdy and hardcore experience I can ever recall having with RPGs.

5 - Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (SNES) - The ultimate champion of tactical RPGs. This game had everything; a huge game world to explore, hours upon hours of content, well-hidden secrets, tons of characters to collect, incredible tactical combat, a high challenge level and a great story. Truly the best strategy game ever in my opinion.

6 - Final Fantasy Tactics (PS1) - A majestic strategy RPG. With tons of secrets to uncover, from secret maps to optional companions, combined with a wonderful story and addicting gameplay, this game consumed many, many hours of my time when I was a kid. Along with Final Fantasy VII, this was one of the first games I purchased a strategy guide for after I beat the game, just to go back and do it again and find every secret!

7 - Morrowind (XBOX & PC) - My first open-world RPG. It completely blew me away at the time. I still remember walking into Balmora and saying to myself, "You can go in ALL of these houses?!?" Years later and I still play it for it's hand-crafted feeling and sense of exotic exploration. An all-time classic and my favorite of the Elder Scrolls games.

8 - Suikoden (PS1) - The first game I played where you could amass a following of 108 (!) characters, complete with a home-base that changed based on who you recruited. Many of the characters were well-hidden and it took some effort to track them all down. A fantastic experience for fans of party-based RPGs.

9 - Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition (PC) - The first in the marvelous Baldur's Gate series, this game hooked me from beginning to end with it's unique loot system, top-notch exploration with many unique encounters and a merry band of fellow adventurers to team up for your cause.

10 - Skyrim (XBOX 360 & PC) - The sheer immersion level that this game gave to me is unmatched by any other game on this list. Skyrim takes you to a palpable fantasy world and lets you live, eat, sleep and breathe there for countless hours of adventure. I prefer Morrowind due to it's more static and hand-crafted feeling, but Skyrim is still in my top-10 of all-time RPGs for it's immersion level and freedom factor. Oh, and mods!

Top 5 Honorable Mentions:

Diablo (PS1 & PC) - The grandmaster of the loot-based action-RPG. Tons of monsters, tons of levels of dungeon to scour, and most importantly, tons of great LOOT! It's still a game I go back to today and play when I'm in the mood for slaying hordes of undead minions.

Inquisitor (PC) - This game certainly would have made my top 10 if I had played more of it before my old laptop crashed. A thick atmosphere in a believable, eerie world make this game a masterpiece, IMO.

Lost Odyssey (XBOX 360) - This game is just a beautiful work of art. Touching story, wonderful characters and the unusual topic of immortality are expanded upon in this console-only gem.

Suikoden 3 (PS2) - One of the few PS2 titles that I mentioned, this game delivers a great story told from 3 unique perspectives and classic Suikoden "gotta collect 'em all!" gameplay.

Gothic (PC) - Despite not making my top-10, I felt this game had one of the best open worlds I've ever experienced in gaming, in large part due to it's danger level, hand-crafted-ness and believable world.

So there you go, basically my Top-15 of all-time . It's so hard to make a list like this but I wanted to do it so I have something to look at months or years down the road and see what has changed.

Thanks for reading .
Last edited by Fluent; July 15th, 2014 at 22:50.
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July 14th, 2014, 00:58
This is the only time in my life I want a Codex Brofist button for that list of great console RPGs. FFT, Suikoden, and Tactics Ogre are awesome. Should try Lunar Silver Star Story if you can ever get your hands on it.
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July 14th, 2014, 01:30
Originally Posted by greywolf00 View Post
This is the only time in my life I want a Codex Brofist button for that list of great console RPGs. FFT, Suikoden, and Tactics Ogre are awesome. Should try Lunar Silver Star Story if you can ever get your hands on it.
Lunar Silver Star Story was great, I completely forgot about it. I remember it came in a great looking case with beautiful artwork. I couldn't wait to crack that baby open and play it. There was a mystique about that game after I read about it in a gaming magazine.

It was a very cool game, for sure.
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July 14th, 2014, 04:06
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
So, I decided to update my top 10 RPGs list since I have been playing a lot of the classic RPGs on PC. I still have a LOT of classics to get to, but right now here is how my top 10 would stand.

(Keep in mind these are subject to change based on my mood that particular day )

A Console-turned-PC Gamer's Top 10 RPGs of All-time!

1 - Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (PC) - This game just oozes atmosphere. I really enjoyed the choices and consequences and exploring a wonderfully detailed urban setting. The story was gripping, the dialog was the most well-written I've ever seen and the setting was well-realized. Best game I've ever played.

2 - Chrono Trigger (SNES) - I played this game in my childhood and it was one of my first RPGs, so I have a lot of fond memories of it. It still stands up today as a great game with colorful characters, a fascinating setting and great gameplay.

3 - Final Fantasy VII (PS1) - This game defined my childhood. Up until this game came out, I really have never seen anything like it. It blew me away then and still does today. Also the first game where the game timer clocked at 99 hours, 99 minutes and 99 seconds for months on end. An extremely memorable experience for me.

4 - Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition (PC) - I'm currently playing this game and already it has made it's way into my top 5 of all-time. The great magic and loot systems, interesting characters, tactical combat and grand exploration make this one of the best games I've ever played. Probably the most nerdy and hardcore experience I can ever recall having with RPGs.

5 - Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (SNES) - The ultimate champion of tactical RPGs. This game had everything; a huge game world to explore, hours upon hours of content, well-hidden secrets, tons of characters to collect, incredible tactical combat, a high challenge level and a great story. Truly the best strategy game ever in my opinion.

6 - Final Fantasy Tactics (PS1) - A majestic strategy RPG. With tons of secrets to uncover, from secret maps to optional companions, combined with a wonderful story and addicting gameplay, this game consumed many, many hours of my time when I was a kid. Along with Final Fantasy VII, this was one of the first games I purchased a strategy guide for after I beat the game, just to go back and do it again and find every secret!

7 - Morrowind (XBOX & PC) - My first open-world RPG. It completely blew me away at the time. I still remember walking into Balmora and saying to myself, "You can go in ALL of these houses?!?" Years later and I still play it for it's hand-crafted feeling and sense of exotic exploration. An all-time classic and my favorite of the Elder Scrolls games.

8 - Suikoden (PS1) - The first game I played where you could amass a following of 108 (!) characters, complete with a home-base that changed based on who you recruited. Many of the characters were well-hidden and it took some effort to track them all down. A fantastic experience for fans of party-based RPGs.

9 - Skyrim (XBOX 360 & PC) - The sheer immersion level that this game gave to me is unmatched by any other game on this list. Skyrim takes you to a palpable fantasy world and lets you live, eat, sleep and breathe there for countless hours of adventure. I prefer Morrowind due to it's more static and hand-crafted feeling, but Skyrim is still in my top-10 of all-time RPGs for it's immersion level and freedom factor. Oh, and mods!

10 - Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition (PC) - The first in the marvelous Baldur's Gate series, this game hooked me from beginning to end with it's unique loot system, top-notch exploration with many unique encounters and a merry band of fellow adventurers to team up for your cause.

Top 5 Honorable Mentions:

Diablo (PS1 & PC) - The grandmaster of the loot-based action-RPG. Tons of monsters, tons of levels of dungeon to scour, and most importantly, tons of great LOOT! It's still a game I go back to today and play when I'm in the mood for slaying hordes of undead minions.

Inquisitor (PC) - This game certainly would have made my top 10 if I had played more of it before my old laptop crashed. A thick atmosphere in a believable, eerie world make this game a masterpiece, IMO.

Lost Odyssey (XBOX 360) - This game is just a beautiful work of art. Touching story, wonderful characters and the unusual topic of immortality are expanded upon in this console-only gem.

Suikoden 3 (PS2) - One of the few PS2 titles that I mentioned, this game delivers a great story told from 3 unique perspectives and classic Suikoden "gotta collect 'em all!" gameplay.

Gothic (PC) - Despite not making my top-10, I felt this game had one of the best open worlds I've ever experienced in gaming, in large part due to it's danger level, hand-crafted-ness and believable world.

So there you go, basically my Top-15 of all-time . It's so hard to make a list like this but I wanted to do it so I have something to look at months or years down the road and see what has changed.

Thanks for reading .
you seem to have a similar taste for tactical RPGs like I do. Have you played Gladius (Xbox/PS2)? It's my favorite tactical RPG (and one of my favorite games).

You put Suikoden 3 too low it is also one of my favorite games. In the end when I realized I was in the last strip of the game, I almost didn't want to play, so it wouldn't end! I really felt a connection with some of those characters. I especially loved how, when you played as one character, the story made some faction 'the evil' ones, but then you played as one character in this faction and the whole thing turned around. I remember when playing as character A when he was saying how he hated the other faction, I almost wanted to tell him that he got it all wrong! they're not that bad!
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July 14th, 2014, 16:04
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
you seem to have a similar taste for tactical RPGs like I do. Have you played Gladius (Xbox/PS2)? It's my favorite tactical RPG (and one of my favorite games).

You put Suikoden 3 too low it is also one of my favorite games. In the end when I realized I was in the last strip of the game, I almost didn't want to play, so it wouldn't end! I really felt a connection with some of those characters. I especially loved how, when you played as one character, the story made some faction 'the evil' ones, but then you played as one character in this faction and the whole thing turned around. I remember when playing as character A when he was saying how he hated the other faction, I almost wanted to tell him that he got it all wrong! they're not that bad!
Yeah, the story being told from all the different perspectives was simply awesome. It's a wonder why more games don't use that system, it was very innovative.

Suikoden 3 is probably too low as that game is just REALLY good. Collecting all the characters was a challenge, and seeing your castle grow and change was classic as well. Oh, and the soundtrack to that game is AMAZING!

I have played and beat Gladius for the XBOX. From what I remember it was a great game with some challenging fights and a fun combat system. I also remember not even wanting to play it at first because I didn't think it would be a deep and complex game. I looked at the cover and thought it was some basic action hack n' slash with gladiators. I was definitely wrong !
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July 14th, 2014, 16:17
Inquisitor is a good game, but not anywhere near my top 20.

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