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July 17th, 2014, 10:41
One of the PC games commonly reviled around here and abroad is Gothic 4 er um Arcania. An okay game but not a Gothic game. However there was one moment.
Actually, I don't think it's quite as reviled as you think. Some of the more passionate fans here do seem to hate it, but I've noticed that several of us recognise that it's not that bad - it's just a terrible Gothic game.

I had fun with it for quite a while, though I lost interest once I'd maxed out my character.

But the environments were nice and it was mildly entertaining throughout.
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July 17th, 2014, 14:34
Exactly. Decent game, but it doesn't live up to the Gothic name.
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July 17th, 2014, 15:25
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
..several of us recognise that it's not that bad - it's just a terrible Gothic game.
Maybe I should break down and try it then. Being that I didn't like any of the Gothic games..this one might work for me.. lol.
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July 17th, 2014, 15:28
Originally Posted by HordeQ View Post
Maybe I should break down and try it then. Being that I didn't like any of the Gothic games..this one might work for me.. lol.
It's more like a Gothic game for kids and casuals
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July 17th, 2014, 15:32
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
It's more like a Gothic game for kids and casuals
Gothic's issue for me was the clunky controls and lack of direction. I know the latter is not necessarily a bad thing for most people and probably one of the selling factors for Gothic.

Originally Posted by Dajjer View Post
…That game came out almost 4 years ago and I still can't get that incident out of my mind.
I'm the same way about the Xenosaga series. I'd have even put that on my list if I didn't need to make room for more obscure titles.
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July 17th, 2014, 15:39
Originally Posted by HordeQ View Post
Gothic's issue for me was the clunky controls and lack of direction. I know the latter is not necessarily a bad thing for most people and probably one of the selling factors for Gothic.
As I recall, Arcania is quite straightforward when it comes to both controls and "direction" - as in, you're rarely left to your own devices for long.

It's very watered down in terms of challenge and mechanics, and the NPC interaction is not particularly engaging.

That said, I actually think it's very pretty and combat had a certain visceral feel to it, that the old Gothics can't provide.

Arguably, it's more entertaining in some ways, in terms of combat, than PB games, though I might be pissing some fans off by saying that
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July 21st, 2014, 02:10
Time to update my top 5….

1. Baldur's Gate 2: SoA + ToB
2. Icewind Dale 1 + NPC Mod Project
3. Mass Effect 2
4. Mass Effect 1
5. TESV: Skyrim

Yes I'm one of a few who prefer ME2 over ME1… I know it's really weak in pretty much every aspects but NPC interactions (which I really enjoy) was far better in ME2 compared to ME1. I was thinking of chucking ME series instead but I really didn't enjoy ME3.

I never enjoyed TES games but something must have changed… enjoying it so much now Been playing nothing but Skyrim of late (and occasionally Diablo 3).

Honourable mentions to DA:O and NWN1: HotU. I enjoyed those games but not quite the "top x RPG of all time" material for me.

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IWD: Orhlanna & Korin
ME: Shepard & Garrus
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July 21st, 2014, 13:55
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
2. Icewind Dale 1 + NPC Mod Project
Which mod are you talking about here? Never heard of it. If it's any good, perhaps it's finally time for a replay.
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July 21st, 2014, 14:02
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Which mod are you talking about here? Never heard of it. If it's any good, perhaps it's finally time for a replay.
I haven't played it myself, but afaik it introduces new joinable NPCs into the game. The new NPCs will talk to each other and to the party leader. Iirc, it also introduces romance options.

If extra dialogue and romance is your thing, you should probably try it.
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July 21st, 2014, 14:11
Yeah, I din't like about IWD 1&2 that I needed to create 6 characters that then of course where quite shallow. With having real fleshed out companions, for me it would be a lot more fun.
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July 21st, 2014, 14:20
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
In no particular order:
Wizardry 6
Wizardry 7
Pool of Radiance
Magic candle
Ultima 6
Ultima 7
Temple of elemental evil
buck rogers: countdown to doomsday
fallout 2
Darklands
Awesome list mate. Not sure U6 would still make my list even though it is a great game, I recently replayed it about a year ago and honestly there was a couple of times where what needed to done was so obscure I can't imagine how anyone could finish it without a walkthrough (the hidden room in bucaneers den - come on…) . U7&7.2 on the other hand can be a bit tricky in a few places but you can normally think your way through the problems.

I also replayed Wiz6 again about 2 weeks ago because I purchased in on Steam and 107 hours later it was truely as great as I remembered it. I mapped the entire game with pencil & paper this time and had a great load of fun - they just don't make them like this anymore. About to start a Wiz7 playthrough with my wiz6 team as soon as I finish a deus ex playthrough.

Buck rogers: countdown is vastly superior to its sequel and has a great plotline. Played it on the c64 when it first came out and replayed it about 4 times on c64 and also replayed it about 3 years ago. True classic.

In my opinion secret of the silver blades ends up slightly beating Pools of radiance due the the amazing well designed dungeons and some truly epic battles and interesting locale.

Just missing Planescape: Torment and BG2

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny (not the HD version!!) and Secret of the Silver Blades.
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July 22nd, 2014, 10:12
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Which mod are you talking about here? Never heard of it. If it's any good, perhaps it's finally time for a replay.
http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/ind…174&Itemid=122

Go play it now!! The author worked on various of BG1/2 mods, her most well known work is Xan mod for both BG1 and 2. It really adds BG like feeling to IWD1. You can ditch the romance easily, they won't pursue it unless you make it clear you are interested. I didn't find NPCs class so ideal since IWD1 is so combat heavy but there's option to change their classes to something more suitable (i.e instead of thief, you can choose thief/mage etc). I find it necessary since the party really lacks magic users. From memory, you have to take all 5 custom made NPCs. You shouldn't leave anyone behind anyway even if you get a choice to - all 5 of them become really close friends

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IWD: Orhlanna & Korin
ME: Shepard & Garrus
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July 22nd, 2014, 10:30
Great, thanks.

Would you recommend playing it in BG2 engine or are there too many problems?
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July 22nd, 2014, 10:38
To be honest, I don't like installing too many mods at once - always a risk of something going terribly wrong. But you can ask author a question if you want to play it with BG engine. Btw you need to patch the game and install HoW expansion to play the mod. Trial of the Luremaster is optional

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July 22nd, 2014, 10:43
Well, in the link you posted they say that
You can also play Icewind Dale in Baldur's Gate 2 engine without any limitations, if you download a IWD-in-BG2 conversion from Gibberlings3.
So I think I'll give it a try.
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July 23rd, 2014, 22:20
Not really in response to anyone in particular, but kinda to various abstracts from a whole host of posts (heck, it's an IWD discussion, it'd be a sin for me not to contribute *something*)…

Someone said it was 'lacking' (paraphrase) because you select six characters, but none of them have any individual characters, they are all just dolls for the choices you make.

Someone else then said, yes, but this mod can make IWD awesome, because it gives all the characters actual characters and in-game interaction.

Hmmm…

How my brain sees this is…

"I don't want to invent *my own* characters by the use of my own imagination, I need someone else to imprint forced characters onto me."

Further…

The largest 'wing' (for want of a better word) of the RPG community believes that a 'great' RPG should be a game with imprinted characters and dialogues.

When, what my brain thinks is…

"Why is the game forcing my characters on me? How am I supposed to ROLE play if the roles are already cookie-cutter and unchangable?"

Having a stereotyped character decide between either killing an injured Goblin or not killing an injured Goblin is NOT my idea of *role* play, that's just a stereotypical character choosing different 'paths', the charatcer will still be the same character the next time you play it.

Now…

With Icewind Dale:

One of my front Fighters can be a large burly woman with a male's voice and my other front Fighter can be a tiny Male with female's voice…

And my imagination fills in all the blanks I need to imagine a 'role'-play.

And…

The next time out I can choose an entirely different front-line with entirely different mental imagery and imagined interaction.

So, weirdly, while people are insisting that forced characterisation *increases* the 'ROLE' aspect, for me, I find the exact opposite to be true!
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July 23rd, 2014, 22:39
Originally Posted by MinorityReport View Post
Not really in response to anyone in particular, but kinda to various abstracts from a whole host of posts (heck, it's an IWD discussion, it'd be a sin for me not to contribute *something*)…

Someone said it was 'lacking' (paraphrase) because you select six characters, but none of them have any individual characters, they are all just dolls for the choices you make.

Someone else then said, yes, but this mod can make IWD awesome, because it gives all the characters actual characters and in-game interaction.

Hmmm…

How my brain sees this is…

"I don't want to invent *my own* characters by the use of my own imagination, I need someone else to imprint forced characters onto me."

Further…

The largest 'wing' (for want of a better word) of the RPG community believes that a 'great' RPG should be a game with imprinted characters and dialogues.

When, what my brain thinks is…

"Why is the game forcing my characters on me? How am I supposed to ROLE play if the roles are already cookie-cutter and unchangable?"

Having a stereotyped character decide between either killing an injured Goblin or not killing an injured Goblin is NOT my idea of *role* play, that's just a stereotypical character choosing different 'paths', the charatcer will still be the same character the next time you play it.

Now…

With Icewind Dale:

One of my front Fighters can be a large burly woman with a male's voice and my other front Fighter can be a tiny Male with female's voice…

And my imagination fills in all the blanks I need to imagine a 'role'-play.

And…

The next time out I can choose an entirely different front-line with entirely different mental imagery and imagined interaction.

So, weirdly, while people are insisting that forced characterisation *increases* the 'ROLE' aspect, for me, I find the exact opposite to be true!
Interesting perspective there, and I agree that that is definitely another way to look at it. Using your imagination in general is a great thing. I think gamers need to recapture that imaginative approach to gaming and not rely on the game developers to fill in every blank for them.

This is sort of a side topic, but it reminds me of my Baldur's Gate playthrough recently. The "cutscenes", if you could call them that, were a narrator narrating a text passage with a still picture of something in the background. I loved it! Why? Because it was great for your imagination. It set a mood and let you imagine in your mind's eye what was happening, rather than seeing it physically in action.

That's why I still think older games are just as good as modern games. The modern games have different production values, but the quality is largely the same.
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July 23rd, 2014, 23:18
Everyone is different, some aren't very imaginative i.e. me. I can build my PCs personality and story when there's only one but 6 is a bit too much for me to handle. I prefer interacting with characters made by others - sort of like in real life. That being said though, I love reading LPs done by people with great imagination, IWD2 being one of them. It's just personal preference, it's a torture to come up with more than a couple of PCs.

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July 23rd, 2014, 23:26
Absolutely, atmosphere's a great word for it.

I think the next 'big leap' in gaming will be when the dialogue can adapt to a uniquely chosen character or, conversely, when games can have *so many* pathways that the pathway system can finally permit creditable changes in character on separate play-throughs.

Good heavens, that would be waaaay down the line though. I guess it's just pixels and dimensions for the next phase though.

Imagine a Dragon Age Origins game where you could choose Morrigan to be 'like a barbie doll' instead of 'dark creepy' and you could choose Oghren to be geek instead of a 'bar-brawler' - now THAT'S character *role*play 'choice'.
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July 23rd, 2014, 23:29
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Everyone is different, some aren't very imaginative i.e. me. I can build my PCs personality and story when there's only one but 6 is a bit too much for me to handle. I prefer interacting with characters made by others - sort of like in real life. That being said though, I love reading LPs done by people with great imagination, IWD2 being one of them. It's just personal preference, it's a torture to come up with more than a couple of PCs.
I'm not having a dig, so I'm glad you understand my 'angle', I do understand that people such as yourself are the majority and therefore games *must* conform to your desires more than mine. BG2's sales and longevity and fame compared to IWD's is like the original and most undeniable market test in that regard.
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