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Default Dragon Age - New trailer @ Gametrailers

June 1st, 2009, 22:05
They are working so hard to make their game dark, gritty and mature - and you all make fun of them.

Don't you know that even game developers have feelings?
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June 1st, 2009, 23:11
Fun? There's no fun involved in anything as serious and mature as this. Not to mention dark. And gritty.
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June 2nd, 2009, 02:57
@aries100 Let's leave it just by saying we seem to have different tastes in terms of writing.

My opinion here is also based on writings I read in works by Bioware but, of course, it won't be fair to judge any game before playing it.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Maybe once the game is out, we'll have an actual chance at experiencing what's really in it - instead of relying on promises and developer hype
Originally Posted by bkrueger View Post
They are working so hard to make their game dark, gritty and mature - and you all make fun of them.

Don't you know that even game developers have feelings?
Sorry if I hurt the feelings of the others, including the developers. However, in the realm of the older materials, such as films and books, criticism is much more harsh than this and good talents often go beyond criticisms. If games are targeted by criticisms, it probably means that they are taken more seriously. So, this hugely depends on how the players see games. Of course, you can say, "It's just entertainment, nothing serious." and shrug your shoulders, anytime, which simply reflects what you think about games.

Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Fun? There's no fun involved in anything as serious and mature as this. Not to mention dark. And gritty.
Yes, on the net, you can sound witty and cleverer with the expense of the others, anytime as well.
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June 2nd, 2009, 04:20
Well, I take what I've seen and read at face value…

I'll be purchasing this game the day it comes out
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June 2nd, 2009, 17:57
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Just like cars, you should take games at face value. Decide at the time of purchase whether the game as it stands is fun enough for you to spend time playing, and don't get it if not.
Okay, but board games never get patched.

Okay, they do, but not in the same amount like video games.

And they are neither "dark & gritty" nor technically graphically oriented (eye candy).

Board games are just what they are: Fun. Sometimes with a complex rule set, sometimes without, but no-one ever tries to make a board game "dark & gritty".
Board games also aren't brought out being with too many bugs, normally.

And please note that I'm talking of board games, not of P&P and P&P-inspired board games like Talisman.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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June 2nd, 2009, 17:58
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Fun? There's no fun involved in anything as serious and mature as this. Not to mention dark. And gritty.
I agree.

Games like this tend towards becoming serious games.

Then there is no fun in them anymore.

By the way, I wouldn't know what "fun" would be in "seriousness".

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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June 2nd, 2009, 19:10
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
By the way, I wouldn't know what "fun" would be in "seriousness".
You misunderstood what I meant. I don't approve Chris Avellone blindly but I think he is a better writer since I've gotten impression that he has a solid background for writing. Reading his writings is enough but, in case you want an evidence, for example, in the article I picked above, he mentions he used Morte as Falstaff to prevent the tone from getting too serious. IMO, this is different from adding a comic-relief robot or ranger. To build this kind of sense, you need to have read a certain amount of books including classic ones, which is almost minimum requirement for writers outside of gaming industry, where writing talents tend not to be appreciated.
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June 2nd, 2009, 20:20
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
By the way, I wouldn't know what "fun" would be in "seriousness".
Have you read George R.R. Martin's books, Alrik? I ask that because his is the inspiration, right? His books are a refreshing blend of fantasy-adventure and adult subject matter, making them more "serious."

But when you compare his world with the one depicted in the video, there are some noticeable differences. Martin pulls off what a lot of writers try and fail to pull off. I have high hopes for Dragon Age but can't say at this point whether or not I think they'll pull it off.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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June 3rd, 2009, 14:48
I must admit that I haven't read his books.

And I must also admit that they most likely wouldn't fit my own taste.

I rather prefer what's becoming rare & rarer today: Fantasy environments which are rather "traditional". No "dark & gritty" things in them at all.

I'm a follower of the faction of TDE players who want rather the "fairy-tale aspect" of TDE back. I even want it back in Star Wars.

I admit that my own taste is very strange and would fill only a niche. But I stand to it.

In recent times I even made a rule to myself to (if possible) only buy *funny* books in the future. The reality around me is depressing me enough, so I want something different - that's what escapism is about.

I just want to relax. I don't want a novel to ignite several new morality-directed questions in my head. I already have enough of them in my head, every day.

Even Terry Pratchett's books have become more and more dark in the recent times. They are different - the early books compared to his recent books.
Of course he has developed his own style.
But his books aren't "fun" anymore. Everyone who's able to read between the lines and to perceive the underlying problems will see that his recent books are *very* serious. "Monstrous Regiment" is the far darkest book I have read of him so far.

I think I must withdraw some day from all this current gaming developments. I think I might return to board games one day (if I can get enough friends together for that, that is).
Board games are neutral. They are just "fun", in my opinion. No dark, no gritty, no mature themes, no seriousness at attl. At least with those board games I know.

To me, that would be going back to my roots. I came from board games to TDE, where the "board game aspect" has imho completely vanished with the TDE 4th edition. The whjole rule set has become rather a simulation than a game. And the fans seem to want and to support that.

Over TDE I came to PC games via the ROA Trilogy. And now I think I'm going back one day.


Originally Posted by Dusk View Post
You misunderstood what I meant. I don't approve Chris Avellone blindly but I think he is a better writer since I've gotten impression that he has a solid background for writing. Reading his writings is enough but, in case you want an evidence, for example, in the article I picked above, he mentions he used Morte as Falstaff to prevent the tone from getting too serious. IMO, this is different from adding a comic-relief robot or ranger. To build this kind of sense, you need to have read a certain amount of books including classic ones, which is almost minimum requirement for writers outside of gaming industry, where writing talents tend not to be appreciated.
Okay, I misunderstood it, then.

I have never had such an experience. I even tried to consciously keep myself away from so-called "classics", because I wabnted to develop my own style of writing. I never wanted to be influenced by so-called "classics", because I realized that it/they would influence my style. I never wanted to become "one of them". I just wanted to be my own.

I favour sheer creativity over everything else. But the learning process is much harder and much longer than having read in incorporated hundreds of other writing styles.

I admit that every now and then I find something I haven't even thought of. THEN, I strongly believe that I'll never be a "classic".

But being "on my own" is satisfying me. It is fun to me to develop my own style.

A few months ago I have begun a story which will explicitely use clichés. No new stuff at all. Only clichés.
Or that's my goal, at least. I will try my best to fulfill what all people want, cliché-wise. And I will try to do it creatively.

A fellow writer recently wrote a very enthusiastic mini-"review" over my forst 20 pages (DIN A4) I sent to her. She wriites (and she is a talented writer, having published a few books already, as far as I know) that my story is very "lively", and will be a good success for me. She believes she is able to distuinguish people who do writing as a "craft", from those who are creative. And she says that I'm one of the creative bunch.

But I don't think I'll ever be a "classic". No high hopes. I have learned to be content what I can do in terms of writing. So you'll most likely never read my works. At least not from a book shop.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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June 3rd, 2009, 16:13
@Alrik Fassbauer
Especially, when it comes to writings, quite many things have been already done so it's hard to do things in an original way. Even some people seem to think they are doing new and original things while they are absolutely not. This seems to be the same to other areas such as music/drawings and I came across quite many people complaining of more or less similar thing, means, of how some new comers don't know how they lack originality when they believe they are doing totally original things. Of course, I haven't read your work and I don't mean it is your case but it is impossible to make a completely original work, any work must be a mixture of "craft"smanship and creativity. If a writer who has his/her share of talents learns from classics, it enables him/her to take control on the ratio.

In any case, unfortunately, looking at the game industry, it is hard to come across writings impressive enough to make me analyze them while, in other mediums, I often have to wonder how a writer managed to do something. It is rather ironical to find how creators manage to do interesting things in much more traditional mediums. However, I guess I'm ranting here.
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June 3rd, 2009, 16:21
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I must admit that I haven't read his books.

And I must also admit that they most likely wouldn't fit my own taste.

I rather prefer what's becoming rare & rarer today: Fantasy environments which are rather "traditional". No "dark & gritty" things in them at all.

I'm a follower of the faction of TDE players who want rather the "fairy-tale aspect" of TDE back. I even want it back in Star Wars.

I admit that my own taste is very strange and would fill only a niche. But I stand to it.
Not quite about your taste being strange and 'niche', at least I'd like to think it's not so. I also prefer 'light' fantasy. That's one of the reasons I liked Drakensang I guess. My screen can display millions of colors, why do recent RPGs think it can only display browns and grays?
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June 3rd, 2009, 17:43
It's not light fantasy, but high fantasy - and there's absolutely a place for it with me as well, but it's variety I crave the most. If most games are high then I miss the low, and if most games are low then I miss the high.

It's one of the reasons I really liked Storm of Zehir - NWN2 and Mask of the betrayer were moving more towards low fantasy, whereas D&D should be high fantasy IMHO.

Then again GRRMs books were a breath of fresh air as well as there were not many quality writers of low fantasy.
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