|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Dragon Age - Preview @ RPS

Default Dragon Age - Preview @ RPS

June 11th, 2009, 06:10
David, I really sympathise with you and your team at the reactions you're getting based on what your marketing division has chosen to do. They have TOTALLY blown it and I just hope someone in authority there is able to right the sinking ship. This has been my number one planned purchase for a long time and I'll certainly have my hand up to write the review for it here at the Watch. I still trust Bioware to deliver a great game, so please don't let me down!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#21

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,398
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 06:21
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I still trust Bioware to deliver a great game, so please don't let me down!!
I can't speak for what marketing will or won't do, and I won't knock them because their job is a hard one — but fortunately we still have a number of months left to go, yet. In the end, I feel confident that the reviews by people who actually play the game will sell it far better than any trailer or guided preview or what-not. Hopefully you will eventually see for yourself that we haven't let you down.
Dgaider is offline

Dgaider

Bioware Writer Guy

#22

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 50

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 08:56
I really don't think Bio needs to worry just yet.

They'll sell on name alone, though I'd be surprised if this becomes a true blockbuster.

That said, I don't personally mind romantic plots, even if they're a bit juvenile and silly. That's always been the case in games, if they went there - or at least for the most part.

Marketing is just as irrelevant to me, except that it really DOES confirm everything I expect from the game.

My personal doubt is based on the direction they've been heading for a long time, coupled with the inescapable realities of the business by now. There's just no way they'd release a game on console and PC with this level of marketing and AAA production values, WITHOUT catering to the masses with simplified mechanics and trivial challenges.

That's just the way the industry works, and that's why I can't buy into the hype - because it doesn't make sense.

They can argue that the game is deep and complex until they're blue in the face, but I just can't believe it.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#23

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,209

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 09:36
Yep. Mature mainstream rpg is basically an oxymoron.
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#24

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,309

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 10:11
I sure don't have the blind faith in Bioware that some people have, but I had high hopes for Dragon Age. Had, past tense. The marketing of DA has been so bad, that it has dropped the game from my 'must buy' list to the 'wait and see' category.

"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Lurking Grue is offline

Lurking Grue

Lurking Grue's Avatar
Random Encounter #23

#25

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: I come from the land of ice and snow
Posts: 562

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 14:02
And this is why I dont base my game purchases on previews

I count on Bioware to produce a solid game as they usually do. My main concern is whether the thief NPCs will be bearable. I really hate 13-yearold girls being the main thief NPC…
Zaleukos is offline

Zaleukos

Zaleukos's Avatar
Bum

#26

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,866

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 14:34
Originally Posted by Zaleukos View Post
I count on Bioware to produce a solid game as they usually do. My main concern is whether the thief NPCs will be bearable. I really hate 13-yearold girls being the main thief NPC…
Aye, I have to admit Mission in KotOR is not all that great. She's got a few good comments, but compared to the likes of Jolee Bindo, she's hardly worth having a conversation with. Jolee is one of my all-time favourite NPCs (loads of great dialogue), so I hope we'll see more characters like him.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#27

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,370
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 14:36
Apart from KOTOR, where did BW have a 13-year-old girl thief NPC?

(FWIW, I thought Mission was one of the better-written and more interesting characters in that game. Between her and HK-47 I could even put up with Carth and Bastila.)
Prime Junta is offline

Prime Junta

RPGCodex' Little BRO

#28

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,540

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 14:40
EDIT: It's by no means a pure Bioware problem, it's just that I have a fairly hard time coming up with thief NPCs that I like in recent-ish RPGs where everyone besides the main character is handed to you by the game. I'd widen the stereotype to "little sister" rather than just 13-yearolds.

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Aye, I have to admit Mission in KotOR is not all that great. She's got a few good comments, but compared to the likes of Jolee Bindo, she's hardly worth having a conversation with. Jolee is one of my all-time favourite NPCs (loads of great dialogue), so I hope we'll see more characters like him.
Mission, Imoen (but in the BGs you at least had other thieves to choose between, Nalia (a slightly older teenager who discovered the joys of utopian communism), and she wasnt all that kiddish in BG2), Neeshka… I'm aware Bioware isnt to blame for all of them, but I'd like to kill them all in the most violent manner possible.
Zaleukos is offline

Zaleukos

Zaleukos's Avatar
Bum

#29

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,866

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 15:06
Imoen certainly wasn't the ideal thief NPC
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#30

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,209

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 15:37
This whole rewamped "marketing for consoles" has been pretty crap. Why couldn't they have targeted it as a traditional rpg? Instead you get the impression that it's a adhd version of The Witcher.
hishadow is offline

hishadow

Level N+1

#31

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern parts of Norway
Posts: 1,140

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 15:38
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I really don't think Bio needs to worry just yet.

They'll sell on name alone, though I'd be surprised if this becomes a true blockbuster.

That said, I don't personally mind romantic plots, even if they're a bit juvenile and silly. That's always been the case in games, if they went there - or at least for the most part.

Marketing is just as irrelevant to me, except that it really DOES confirm everything I expect from the game.

My personal doubt is based on the direction they've been heading for a long time, coupled with the inescapable realities of the business by now. There's just no way they'd release a game on console and PC with this level of marketing and AAA production values, WITHOUT catering to the masses with simplified mechanics and trivial challenges.

That's just the way the industry works, and that's why I can't buy into the hype - because it doesn't make sense.

They can argue that the game is deep and complex until they're blue in the face, but I just can't believe it.
How much you wi lling to bet that it won't be a block buster? I willing to take a bet that it does.
rune_74 is offline

rune_74

SasqWatch

#32

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,918

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 20:28
I really don't think Bio needs to worry just yet.
They sure don't. As video games continue to become more and more of a widely consumed media, it's to be expected that the relationship between quality and sales fades away to nothing. Just because a movie is a piece of crap that gets a 30% on Metacritic doesn't mean it won't open in the top box office slot, and just because a movie is a masterpiece on every critic's must-see list doesn't mean it will even break even. I'd say we're about at that point with AAA video games. The reaction from devoted CRPGers matters to the people who work on the game, of that I'm sure. But sales are going to be primarily driven by marketing that happens outside our little community of people who read sites like this. If only we mattered more, what a beautiful world it would be.
Yeesh is offline

Yeesh

Yeesh's Avatar
Hopeless Curmudgeon

#33

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: too poor for Manhattan
Posts: 374

Default 

June 12th, 2009, 16:12
I've read some previews of DA:O including the one from RPS. I think it's hard to actually write a useful preview for such a complex RPG game like DA:O just from seeing small parts of the game. You need to play for several hours before you learn enough about the story, game play, character development to make a good assessment of whether the game is good or bad.

So the preview from RPS sounded like sour grapes to me. The previewer made his comments based on some "snapshots" of a huge game and meant it was pathetic etc. It doesn't seem he had the time to build a character, solve any quests and see how the game play was. I agree that jumping into a scene where Morrigan "jumps over" the PC probably isn't the best way to show a snapshot of DA:O. As David Gaider explained, we don't know what lead up to this scene.

I have a feeling Bioware looked at the success from the Witcher using a lot of adult content. So they added it in DA:O as well. You had small parts of it in Mass Effect and that was just fine with me. The Witcher was a bit too much I think and I still remember I had to play parts of the game late at night when my wife was asleep. So it wouldn't hurt if Bioware could tone done the sexual content of DA:O similar to how we can decide to tone down violence in games with a setting. If you keep the setting on then you get to see everything, but if you set it off then you just fade to black when the game shows the detailed sexual content.

It seems to me a lot of the DA:O criticism from E3 is about being exposed to sexual content without a chance to avoid it. I know that e. g. Europeans are more open minded than Americans when it comes to showing such stuff so the Witcher showed more sexual details in the European version than in the US version.

I don't mind seeing sexual scenes like in Mass Effect (it was rather toned down), but if it becomes too clear and direct then I would be a bit embarrassed playing. If I don't know when the scenes will happen then I would make sure I play when the rest of the family is asleep etc. and that doesn't feel right.

I can't comment yet about actor performance in DA:O, but it would have to be very bad before I would become upset. I'm not a native English speaking person so I would probably not hear the small nuisances between great acting and just good acting. Sometimes I've seen a game getting criticism for having actors with certain accents (like English or Australian). I don't mind at all if a dwarf is talking with an English accent while the other dwarf is talking with a US accent. I don't mind about that at all.

What's more important to me is that the actors are engaged and have some feelings when they act. If they just act like they're reading text from a paper without any connection to the game story then it will become poor. But most acting in RPG games are good enough for me. E. .g I felt the acting in Mass Effect was just fine.

So I will definitely buy DA:O because the story so far seems good and despite some apparent flaws in game mechanics (a bit clunky combat etc.) I believe the game will be good. I can't understand people reading a preview from ONE guy and then make a conclusion based on what he wrote. I would only worry about previews if many different previews independently of each other point at major flaws with a game. The it's not sour grapes from one previewer, but a real problem with the game. The last Alone in the Dark game was a game I wanted to buy, but decided not to because almost all previewers commented on the same type of problems. Then I knew the game wasn't as good as I hoped.

So I think we should wait for more DA:O previews to appear closer to release date before we conclude that this game will disappoint. I still have hopes the game will be as good as Mass Effect and Baldur's Gate.

I hope Bioware would listen and learn from feedback they get when they show a trailer or show the game at E3 etc. They still have time to fine tune details of the game. If e. g. the voice acting of a certain NPC was considered to be very poor it's time to replace this acting with another one unless it's one of the major characters.
The sex scene between Morrigan and the PC can be toned down if it's considered to be too direct. So I see shows like E3 like an opportunity for Bioware to try out certain parts of the game on the public and get feedback in time for them make some changes.

Paladin of Tyr
Peter Stauffenberg is offline

Peter Stauffenberg

Peter Stauffenberg's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#34

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 853
Send a message via ICQ to Peter Stauffenberg Send a message via Skype™ to Peter Stauffenberg

Default 

June 12th, 2009, 19:18
Originally Posted by Peter Stauffenberg View Post
/snip
The sex scene between Morrigan and the PC can be toned down if it's considered to be too direct. So I see shows like E3 like an opportunity for Bioware to try out certain parts of the game on the public and get feedback in time for them make some changes.
-ehm-

Any sex, romance or love scene in any Bioware game can be avoided; you just need to choose the right dialogue options. You can, of course, also tell Morrigan, or any other romantic interest, 'sorry, we're just going to be friends'.

Again, by choosing the right dialogue options….

Any Bioware game has alsways featured romances (ok, maybe not shattered steel) but any Bioware game from the first Baldur's Gate have had romantic interests that your PC can get involved during the course of the game.

DA: Origins is a Bioware game, thus it, of course, has romances that may or may not lead to a love or sex scene. And any love or sex scene can be avoided in a Bioware game…

Please support http://www.maternityworldwide.org/ - and save a mother giving birth to a child.
aries100 is offline

aries100

SasqWatch
RPGWatch Team RPGWatch Donor

#35

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark, Europe
Posts: 2,007

Default 

June 12th, 2009, 19:29
Originally Posted by aries100 View Post
Any sex, romance or love scene in any Bioware game can be avoided; you just need to choose the right dialogue options. You can, of course, also tell Morrigan, or any other romantic interest, 'sorry, we're just going to be friends'.
"It can be avoided" seems like an overused cliché to me. I can never visit New Reno in Fallout 2, it doesn't mean the city is less of a setting-breaker.

It's good when things are optional, but you can't excuse badly done material just because they player doesn't have to see them.
Brother None is offline

Brother None

Brother None's Avatar
SasqWatch

#36

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,552

Default 

June 12th, 2009, 20:51
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
"It's good when things are optional, but….
I agree completely but would also point out that, if these games were made fundamentally differently, then stuff like this might not be a problem at all.

Right now CRPGs, like every other kind of application, are made and sold in only one iteration. So customers pay for "the whole enchilada" and would naturally prefer it all to be edible.

But if it worked like a smorgasbord instead, and customers knew they were only ever going to be served a limited amount of everything available, then "optional" content would make more sense. Or better still, if content were selected via indistinguishable collaboration, then the whole thing might become intriguing instead of something to be tolerated.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
Squeek is offline

Squeek

Squeek's Avatar
connoisseur of tidbits

#37

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,807

Default 

June 12th, 2009, 23:37
Thats one of my main problems with romances. The "optional" part.
I would like romances to have 2 well made paths atleast. One where you can go along with the romance and get your "reward" in the end and one where you can break up the romance and still end up with a reward of some sort.
It seems if you fail or break up most romances you just cut of some content without getting anything in return.
Foss is offline

Foss

Foss's Avatar
Watchdog

#38

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 198

Default 

June 13th, 2009, 16:37
it needs to be taken as what it is - a brief clip that really means nothing in the overall scope of the game. Sure, first impressions can make a significant… well.. impression, but this is like reading one page of a book.

Buck up, rpg compadres. I have a feeling that everything's gonna work out just fine
xSamhainx is offline

xSamhainx

xSamhainx's Avatar
Paws of Doom

#39

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego, Ca
Posts: 4,624

Default 

June 13th, 2009, 17:34
Originally Posted by xSamhainx View Post
it needs to be taken as what it is - a brief clip that really means nothing in the overall scope of the game. Sure, first impressions can make a significant… well.. impression, but this is like reading one page of a book.

Buck up, rpg compadres. I have a feeling that everything's gonna work out just fine
That is exactly what I was thinking.

Despite all my rage.
I'm still just a rat in a cage.
skavenhorde is offline

skavenhorde

skavenhorde's Avatar
Little BRO Rat
RPGWatch Team

#40

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 5,408
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Dragon Age - Preview @ RPS
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:27.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch