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Default US Now Have A Total Gangster Government

June 26th, 2009, 03:34
I think this deserve its own thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thR-l…layer_embedded

got to love this one
http://www.theonion.com/content/vide…ob_performance

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

"If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions",- Government
Last edited by mudsling3; June 26th, 2009 at 03:53.
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June 26th, 2009, 04:46
There's a bit of hyperbole there, but I think it's a fair question she's asking. Lefties, we need some spin here.

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June 26th, 2009, 05:43
Agree, where was her brain for past 8 years. I don't give a dime about republicrats or democan. It is just about a concrete example of unintended consequence of government action.

I am LMAO with this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_cmQBbLHao

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

"If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions",- Government
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June 26th, 2009, 16:26
I can't watch Bachman—is there some valid point about cronyism to respond to? If someone will state it without forcing me to watch you tube I'll be happy to do whatever spinning I can.

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June 26th, 2009, 19:40
1) At least 2 GM dealers on GM's "to be axed" list called their (democrat) congresspeoples, including one Barney Frank, and magically were removed from said list.
2) Another dealer on the "to be axed" list called Bachman (republican) for the same pull and nothing changed.
3) In addition to that dealer losing her 90-year business overnight to what appears to be a political decision (a thought reinforced by the fact the we're talking "Government Motors" at this point), GM has had to temerity to demand her customer list so that it can be handed to her former competition. Naturally, Government Motors isn't offering this dealer a dime for what amounts to proprietary information.

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June 26th, 2009, 19:48
I don't mean to sound like I'm splitting hairs, but is there any confirmation/verification from sources other than Bachman? Because, I still can't make myself listen to her.(Sorry)

Edit: Okay I googled a bit, here's one link debunking her:
Washington Monthly
The problem, as Bachmann sees it, is that the car dealer, Paul Walser, reached out to Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) for support. Klobuchar helped connect Walser to GM officials, Walser appealed the closing, and GM agreed to let the dealership stay open.

This is outrageous, apparently, because a Democratic senator intervened in support of a constituent. Bachmann sees a "gangster government" conspiracy involving a Democratic administration, a Democratic lawmaker, and a constituent seeking assistance.

There are a couple of problems with the argument. Most notably, Paul Walser isn't a Democrat; he's a generous Republican donor, who has contributed thousands of dollars to Michele Bachmann and tens of thousands to the Minnesota Republican Party.
And here's some more about why republican dealerships appear to be bearing the brunt of closures from Nate Silver.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/…publicans.html

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June 26th, 2009, 19:53
http://www.newsweek.com/id/201949

It's George Will, but I figure Newsweek is reasonably trustworthy. Google turned up several other sources such as the Detroit News, but I went with this one. I don't think Bachman specifically named the other congressperson and I can't review the YouTube from work.

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June 26th, 2009, 20:02
Seems like several instances have gotten mixed together (see above)—thanks for at least trying to sort it out.

I'm more than willing to believe that Senators have enough pull to influence decisions in the private sector. I do doubt that this is much different than it ever was, but of course it hits Obama personally since he has worked so hard to project that 'change has come to Washington' thing. If people want to blame him for a system he's had serious input into for less than six months, though, that's okay with me. I don't have the energy to go dredge out all the corruption from the last bunch of political hacks, but we all know it's there.

I'm not condoning it or anything, though. Cronyism is a very counter-productive thing for all of us.

Edit: The Washington Monthly quoted above looks like a lefty source—just assuming since it has floating quotes from the wit and wisdom of Bill Clinton at the top—but I have to say, the first comment on the story cracked me up.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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June 26th, 2009, 20:28
I have now read the whole Will column and while I find George Will pretty much a grumpy old fogy in general, I don't particularly disagree with his points in this case. Despite my enjoyment of Barney Frank, he's most likely not the best candidate for Senator Most Untouched By Washington. I agree wholeheartedly that the auto industry bailout, and all the other bailouts are going to be a source of mess and corruption for years to come, and that pushing the Green is a specious excuse a lot of times and especially in the argument Frank advanced.

I do doubt that there's any widespread conspiracy about closing some places and sparing others other than whatever money and influence normally conspire to do in DC, and the 'gangster government' phrase Bachman has dredged out of her subconscious certainly could bear a lot of negative interpretations.

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June 26th, 2009, 20:58
Most of the time, Nate does a nice job crunching numbers even if I don't like his conclusions. OTOH, some days, he gets in such a hurry to defend his agenda that he starts picking numbers to give him the answer he wants. He's basing his analysis on dollars. Who cares about dollars? The question is about donors, not donations. There's still a decided slant, but it's not quite as exciting as trumpetting 10:1 from the mount.

Bachman didn't come up with "gangster government"—she credited it to someone else, but I don't remember whom.

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June 26th, 2009, 21:42
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Most of the time, Nate does a nice job crunching numbers even if I don't like his conclusions. OTOH, some days, he gets in such a hurry to defend his agenda that he starts picking numbers to give him the answer he wants. He's basing his analysis on dollars. Who cares about dollars? The question is about donors, not donations. There's still a decided slant, but it's not quite as exciting as trumpetting 10:1 from the mount.

Bachman didn't come up with "gangster government"—she credited it to someone else, but I don't remember whom.
Apologies to Bachman then. It just seems like a loaded term.

I'm not sure I'm getting your point about donors vs dollars—if I'm interpreting Nate's figures correctly(which as you know I'm not actually very adept at so I'm mostly going by what he says) Democratic dealerships exist in lower numbers than Republican ones, therefore more Republican ones are closing, and that the Democratic coffers have not been swelled, and thus influenced, by a great many contributions from the dealerships:
Overall, 88 percent of the contributions from car dealers went to Republican candidates and just 12 percent to Democratic candidates.
That being so, I suppose that a case could be made that it's revenge or something.

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June 27th, 2009, 15:58
It's most probably a BS accusation anyway, but going by donation dollars is utterly irrelevant. The accusation (which is technically true, but being twisted as usual) is that more republican dealers are on the kill list than democrats. That's strictly a headcount accusation. Dollar donations are completely irrelevant. I ran the numbers quickly. Going by donor headcount, it's 8:1 roughly. Still enough to accomplish Nate's goal of debunking the "faulty conclusion" that Bachman threw out there, but not quite as impactful as using donation dollars. To borrow Nate's phrase, he's guilty of "bad math".

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June 27th, 2009, 17:09
So you're basically saying Nate's piling on unnecessarily. If ten republicans donate X million while 10 dems donate X hundred thousand kind of thing? (If I'm grasping your point.)

Since Prime J is off lolling in decadence in the South of France, I feel I have to take on the conservative-baiting mantle, here: So, you're saying dollar donations are irrelevant—could it be you just don't want it pointed out that republican auto dealers are able to donate more, thus are more evilly wealthy than dem auto dealers, eh?

(Look at it this way, they're just more successful because they're full of that entrepreneurial, self-reliant repub spirit, while the dems are frittering theirs away on babes and booze and probably donating their profits to Greenpeace instead of Congress.)

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June 27th, 2009, 17:47
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
So you're basically saying Nate's piling on unnecessarily. If ten republicans donate X million while 10 dems donate X hundred thousand kind of thing? (If I'm grasping your point.)
Close enough. Rather than "piling on", I'd call it "skewed reporting", though.
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
Since Prime J is off lolling in decadence in the South of France, I feel I have to take on the conservative-baiting mantle, here: So, you're saying dollar donations are irrelevant—could it be you just don't want it pointed out that republican auto dealers are able to donate more, thus are more evilly wealthy than dem auto dealers, eh?

(Look at it this way, they're just more successful because they're full of that entrepreneurial, self-reliant repub spirit, while the dems are frittering theirs away on babes and booze and probably donating their profits to Greenpeace instead of Congress.)
I'm perfectly fine with having that angle pointed out, for exactly the reasons you offer (I do love those party stereotypes) . But that's a tangential discussion that Nate's disguising as a proper rebuttal.

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June 27th, 2009, 18:19
Fair enough. I won't point out (Hah! fat chance) that Bachman is more than a little skewed herself, but I can see your point. Despite being a number-cruncher, Nate's only human and Bachman and her wild-eyed pronouncements and conspiracy theories do bring out the worst in us lefties.

Speaking of stereotypes, you notice how I'm not mentioning Mark Sanford? I get some props for class for that one, I hope.

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June 27th, 2009, 18:31
Some props for class, but more for professionalism. Some "challenges" are simply beneath the notice of true warriors.

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July 5th, 2009, 05:43
Some numbskulls would never get it…what has this to do with red or blue?

But Here is a true warrior for the July 4th occasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVemYhWSFPM

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

"If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions",- Government
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July 5th, 2009, 05:50
Uhhh…I'm calling BS until I actually see a news article or a police report.
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July 5th, 2009, 06:07
Here is a lead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJF5cUWXA_A

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

"If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions",- Government
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July 5th, 2009, 06:21
That guy is an idiot, and fully deserved what happened to him imo. (If it indeed really happened)

In another video here, he claims…

"….beaten and tasered by the Border Patrol for standing up for my 4th Amendment right not to be searched without a warrant…"

Guess again bro… US Customs agents, immigration officers, and border patrol agents *do not* need a search warrant to legally search any individual they are suspicious about. At least be aware of the laws before starting some crusade claiming that you were "violated".
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