|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics, Religion & other Controversies » Dragon Age Book Review - Off Topic Discussion

Default Dragon Age Book Review - Off Topic Discussion

August 27th, 2009, 16:44
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Re-read the review: there aren't any. It's all very softcore — milk-soft skin, eyes brimming with tears, husky voices, fade to black…
What?!?! Oh well hardcore elves would have been the only new concept here. Now sadly its 100% derivative. What a shame and I'm sure everyone is upset and thinking "count me out". Maybe I should write a book? I'm sure hardcore elves (interracial of course) is something everyone is secretly wishing for. Just think of the possibilities! Dwarf on elf, Orc on elf. What's under a wizards robe? An elf of course!

"For Innos!"
ToddMcF2002 is offline

ToddMcF2002

ToddMcF2002's Avatar
SasqWatch

#1

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 2,232

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 16:55
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
From his explanation of how he discovered music. He comes from a working-class background where tastes were not "refined" at all. He tells me that he was about twelve or thirteen when he first heard classical music, and he says that that experience was something that was profoundly transformational; he speaks of it in almost religious terms. I have simply never gotten that kind of kick out of any kind of music, and I have great trouble appreciating complex music without a fairly lengthy period of "acclimatizing" myself to it. IOW, I get a strong impression that we're not talking (only) about interest and experience, but also about some innate capacity or talent — "intelligence" if you will.
Well, you can use whatever word you wish of course - but in my personal opinion, intelligence indicates a potential level of ability, and interest simply denotes circumstancial focus. As in, if you had heard music under the exact same circumstances or you had some kind of "profound" experience - which is often the case when as young we decide what we like - you may have been able to enjoy music in the same way.

I don't think it has to do with a lack of ability, but rather that you focus on other areas that you prefer for other reasons than necessarily being "smart" in those areas.

Sure, why not?
Because to me that's not intelligence - that's experience and a developed preference. An acquired taste, if you will.

Heh, *he* does, for sure. He just used that exact term in a rather heated conversation last summer. My theory is simpler — over time, the bad stuff tends to get forgotten while the good stuff tends to stick around, so if a 300-year-old piece of music is still being played, the simple fact of its survival indicates that it's likelier to be good than a random piece composed today.
But we don't know what's remembered 300 years from now. We do know great music from much later than the classical period, though, that is still admired greatly today.

Probably. I wouldn't know, since I don't have the capability to tell — I'm just not smart that way.
Frankly, I think you're selling yourself short and underestimating yourself by using that kind of word in such a context.

But we must do as we think is best.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#2

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:02
Where did this come from?
In my post I even said "This of course doesn´t mean that simple = bad or complex = good. "
It comes from the fact that you think their level of interest has to do with how many "layers" they can process, or whatever you call it.

If you don't attribute value to that, that's nice to hear, but it still doesn't make sense.

Basically, I´m just of opinion that people with more "developed" tastes have probably more diverse portfolio to enjoy, well, at least if they don´t loose the ability to enjoy more simple things in the process.
Janáček and Iron Maiden ftw.
Do you agree that, based on the average human being, one might have more "layers" in one area, and fewer "layers" in another?

If so, do you think it really has anything to do with "layers" - and maybe instead that it has to do with what one has spent more time doing?

As in, level of interest - circumstancial focus?

Also, I never connoted levels of "taste refinement" to levels of intelligence.
If anything, interest is much more important factor, and maybe, eh, emotional responsiveness.
This is what you said:

It´s just that the people who whose brain can process more layers are just able to put things into a better perspective, one could say their taste is more refined.
If you're not talking about intelligence - then what ARE you talking about, exactly?
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#3

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:06
I think when we're talking about intelligence we are talking about Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, yes?

So bodily-kinesthetic, verbal-linguistic, logical-mathematical, interpersonal, visual-spatial, naturalistic, musical?
Rithrandil is offline

Rithrandil

I bent my wookie

#4

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 2,299

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:07
Originally Posted by skavenhorde View Post
Cool, someone else in Taiwan at the Watch.

Sure I'll PM you if I find any place. Right now I've checked Page One and they don't have it yet. If any book store will have it it will be them.

Forget trying to order from Lai Lai. I've tried once and they never delivered. I don't even think Lai Lai is still around. Eslite has gone downhill. I don't even go there anymore except for White Dwarf magazines. If you're down south in Kauhsiung you could try Caves Books. They normally have a great selection. I believe there might be one also in Taipei where I am at, but I've never bothered to go looking for it. I just head to Page One. They'll order the book for you if they don't have it and they do actually get it unlike Lai Lai.
Thanks mate, appreciated. I'm sure you're much more likely to find it than me, both because my skills here are poor, and mostly what I see around me are Genius and Eslites, never been in a Page One. I live in Banqiao, so definitely not down south.
St.Penguin is offline

St.Penguin

Watcher

#5

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 24

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:20
Originally Posted by Rithrandil View Post
I think when we're talking about intelligence we are talking about Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, yes?

So bodily-kinesthetic, verbal-linguistic, logical-mathematical, interpersonal, visual-spatial, naturalistic, musical?
AFAIK, there are multiple theories about intelligence - and to me it's rather like religion, as in we all think of the concept in different ways.

I don't think we should expect all of us here to be talking about the exact same thing

But I support the idea of more than one kind of intelligence, as long as we don't think of it as something that's set in stone.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#6

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:22
Originally Posted by St.Penguin View Post
Thanks mate, appreciated. I'm sure you're much more likely to find it than me, both because my skills here are poor, and mostly what I see around me are Genius and Eslites, never been in a Page One. I live in Banqiao, so definitely not down south.
Page one is at Taipei 101 and they have one in Fuxing. Tons of English books.

Here is their info.
http://www.pageonegroup.com/

Edit: I guess I could of just pmd all that. Oh well, it doesn't hurt for everyone to know where to go for english books if they're in Taiwan

Despite all my rage.
I'm still just a rat in a cage.
skavenhorde is offline

skavenhorde

skavenhorde's Avatar
Little BRO Rat

#7

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 5,408

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:39
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If you're not talking about intelligence - then what ARE you talking about, exactly?
Oh, I see . I wasn´t talking about intelligence as in smart/dumb sense, as Maylander implied.
I guess you might call it the ability to reconnaissance, or something.
In the case of music, people who somewhat lack this usually tend to say all symphonic music sounds the same, jazz is a mumbled mess etc.
You probably might say musical, or listening intelligence, yes.


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
It comes from the fact that you think their level of interest has to do with how many "layers" they can process, or whatever you call it.

If you don't attribute value to that, that's nice to hear, but it still doesn't make sense.

Do you agree that, based on the average human being, one might have more "layers" in one area, and fewer "layers" in another?

If so, do you think it really has anything to do with "layers" - and maybe instead that it has to do with what one has spent more time doing?

As in, level of interest - circumstancial focus?
Of course I agree that one might have more "layers" in one area, and fewer in another.
What usually determines that is a level or interest, natural talent and, well, experience.

I simply offered an opinion why it is some people might think Britney Spears is better than Bach and was trying to track a more general cause, hence layers™ .

I should´ve used a wine example.

I´ve also said that I´ve no problem with people calling someone else´s taste bad because well, as I see it, it at least holds some potential for discussion, if the offender cares to explain, of course.
Saying "it´s all matter of taste" and be done with it puts things in limbo.
After all, some things may emerge as beautiful/inspiring/etc after you understand them more and for that discussion might be useful.
Last edited by DeepO; August 27th, 2009 at 17:51.
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#8

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,339

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:51
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
I´ve also said that I´ve no problem with people calling someone else´s taste bad because well, there´s at least a potential for discussion.
Saying "it´s all matter of taste" and be done with it puts things in limbo.
After all, some things may emerge as beautiful after you understand them more and for that discussion might be useful.
It may, it may not.

There's no way to know - and as such, no perceivable objective truth.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#9

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:52
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
It may, it may not.

There's no way to know - and as such, no perceivable objective truth.
Yep. So why even try, amirite?
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#10

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,339

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:54
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
Yep. So why even try, amirite?
Try is fine.

But to speak as if you knew, is perhaps not fine.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#11

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:55
Perhaps I agree .
DeepO is offline

DeepO

DeepO's Avatar
deep outside

#12

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Prague
Posts: 2,339

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:56
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
Perhaps I agree .
It could be
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#13

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 17:59
There are people to whom music is dead. It's just a fact. (I've lived with them) I'm not talking about musical tastes, either, but about deep enjoyment of any music. As primates, they may be able to appreciate rhythm or some sort of primitive arrangement of notes occasionally, but the spiritual element of music just doesn't speak to them. Poetry is a similar area—either you get it or you don't. In my experience, anyway.

It isn't an effect of intelligence, but of wiring, imo.

And excuse me for speaking as if I know, even if I think I do.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
magerette is offline

magerette

magerette's Avatar
Hedgewitch

#14

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,929

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 18:13
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
There are people to whom music is dead. It's just a fact. (I've lived with them) I'm not talking about musical tastes, either, but about deep enjoyment of any music. As primates, they may be able to appreciate rhythm or some sort of primitive arrangement of notes occasionally, but the spiritual element of music just doesn't speak to them. Poetry is a similar area—either you get it or you don't. In my experience, anyway.

It isn't an effect of intelligence, but of wiring, imo.

And excuse me for speaking as if I know, even if I think I do.
Wiring is preferable

But in my mind, it all flows together - and such a lack of appreciation can be the result of suppressed emotional breadth, based on whatever experience or lack thereof during childhood.

Not necessarily hardcoded wiring.

But I won't speak as if I know - so it's just a theory
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#15

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 22:31
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But in my mind, it all flows together - and such a lack of appreciation can be the result of suppressed emotional breadth, based on whatever experience or lack thereof during childhood.

Not necessarily hardcoded wiring.

But I won't speak as if I know - so it's just a theory
It can be, I'm sure. But, I'm also pretty sure, it need not. People are different, in temperament, emotional color, and response to stimulus. We even know the genetic causes for some of those differences — for example, the genetic basis for how people react to bitter tastes. I do not believe that everyone is born equally talented; a tabula rasa that life writes on. We're born different. Rith's list of types of intelligence is one way of describing those differences.
Prime Junta is offline

Prime Junta

RPGCodex' Little BRO

#16

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,540

Default 

August 27th, 2009, 22:32
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
From his explanation of how he discovered music. He comes from a working-class background where tastes were not "refined" at all. He tells me that he was about twelve or thirteen when he first heard classical music, and he says that that experience was something that was profoundly transformational; he speaks of it in almost religious terms.
I think I can understand this.

Because I've had a similar experience.

I was totally innocent regarding music, when one day my father decided to bring me two redords of Mike Oldfield from a trip to a music shop.

One of them was Five Miles Out.

I was totally … impressed by this kind of music I found with Taurus II.

This impression became even greater with Tubular Bells, which I bought a bit after that.

Besides, I think my very first self-bought album was the musical "Chess".

Since then, I both love what's called "classic rock" and highly complex stuff like Tubular Bells.

Personally, I have made up a theory that things happening to us during the Puberty affects us much, much more than other things - I assume that this leaves kind of a stamp on us.

I think that's why I love this kind of music I learned then much more than other kinds of music.

A bit to the "taste" problem: I also believe that harmonies are most wanted, regardless of taste or intellect.

I found this while recently discovering the album "In Blue" by the Corrs for me. Their singing is full of harmonies, and I love that.

I assume that most people long for harmonies in music, and maybe even vocal harmonies, and I think this might have something to do with humans being social beings, and choirs just being the normal layout/form of making music.

Recently I began to read a book about African music, and I learned that music has a totally different meaning in many african cultures. Music is ? living. There is no living without music, and at least not with the first beat of all, which is the heartbeat.

I also learned that in african villages it was totally common to sing in groups - together, with something I had only known as ancient Greek choruses in drama
before.

So, I almost assume that singing together and producing vocal harmonies is nothing but an innate desire or wish of ALL humans, because

1. they are social beings
2. harmonies make them feel good
3. singing together vocal harmonies tightens the bond of social groups, maybe.

Looking at it from this perspective, Tolkien's "Great Singing" gets a different meaning. Melkor is the one who turns away from creating harmonies, but who wants to make up his own harmonies.

The effect of his trying is/was desastrous : He creates nothing but foul things with his voice, and other voices even fell silent, because his dis-harmonies became louder and louder and more and more disturbing the complex layout of all harmonies.

So, looking at Melkor from this perspective, he is nothing but an outsider, trying to make up his own things with breaking away from harmonies.

This is like splintering the whole creation of Arda into several things, into small shards, which do not know from one another, and even begin to fight one another, because there are no harmonies anymore.

Like in real life.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR

#17

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 16,062

Default 

August 28th, 2009, 00:16
Did you suddenly forget how to form paragraphs?
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#18

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 18,308

Default 

August 28th, 2009, 18:57
PJ - I like your father already!

I have often been called an elitist because I am of the opinion that all music is better than no music, and that whatever music brings you pleasure should be celebrated … but that there is more than just simple enjoyment to be had from music, but that for that vast majority of music in the popular realm, enjoyment is the pinnacle of what it can deliver.

— Mike
txa1265 is offline

txa1265

txa1265's Avatar
SasqWatch

#19

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Corning, NY USA
Posts: 11,545

Default 

August 29th, 2009, 16:57
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Did you suddenly forget how to form paragraphs?
What, me ?

No, that's the style I'm writing in.

It looks weird, I must admit.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR

#20

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 16,062
RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics, Religion & other Controversies » Dragon Age Book Review - Off Topic Discussion
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:32.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch