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Default RPGWatch Feature - King's Bounty: Armored Princess Impressions

September 23rd, 2009, 04:40
Nope. I'm curious to understand, is all.

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September 23rd, 2009, 04:42
It's not exactly rocket science.
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September 23rd, 2009, 06:20
It's the hot dog part that is disturbing him

Ahh come on JDR don't be that guy. Look at it this way, you get to stare at a girls butt in every combat scene

If you want to hook her up with someone you can. She gets lonely too you know. Everyone needs to be loved by someone.

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September 23rd, 2009, 10:17
Boyfriends being disposable mules. I like that! Can I ride them too? Yeeha! Let's shake some dust, boy!

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September 23rd, 2009, 13:18
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Does my opinion honestly bother you that much?
No - it is the fact that your stated attitudes - that anything but 'hardcore' is for 'pussies' (aside from that being an inherently sexist statement in itself), that you don't touch anything with cute or funny attributes, and so on … represents a large part of the 18-34 male-centric gaming audience who dominate what is said and read and developed … but not where the buying power is.

It is a self-limiting attitude that shows gamers to be no different than other machismo-laden stereotypes - the type of thing that has made one of the worst movies in recent years (Transformers 2) a top seller because of T&A and 'big boom'. We claim to care about quality and good writing and balance … but in the end these attitudes show we want to dominate others, exploit base race stereotypes, and treat women as objects.

Hooray.

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September 23rd, 2009, 14:01
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
No - it is the fact that your stated attitudes - that anything but 'hardcore' is for 'pussies' (aside from that being an inherently sexist statement in itself), that you don't touch anything with cute or funny attributes, and so on … represents a large part of the 18-34 male-centric gaming audience who dominate what is said and read and developed … but not where the buying power is.

It is a self-limiting attitude that shows gamers to be no different than other machismo-laden stereotypes - the type of thing that has made one of the worst movies in recent years (Transformers 2) a top seller because of T&A and 'big boom'. We claim to care about quality and good writing and balance … but in the end these attitudes show we want to dominate others, exploit base race stereotypes, and treat women as objects.

Hooray.

First off, don't put words in my mouth, it's annoying to no end to be quoted on things I never said. "Anything but 'hardcore' is for 'pussies'" ? Are you seriously going to take something that I joked about and try to twist it around like that?

Your 'holier-than-thou' attempt here is completely laughable. My personal opinion on a single aspect of this game does not make me a dominating, exploiting, woman beating, slavemaster.
Last edited by JDR13; September 23rd, 2009 at 14:19. Reason: Didn't want to be that harsh, although it's probably justified here.
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September 23rd, 2009, 15:48
I just thought JDR's comments were funny and some great material for a few jokes or what amounts for my attempt at humor.

I don't think you're a ….slavemaster is what you called yourself?….Anyways, in JDR's defense I wouldn't do the gay companion quest in TOEE either. Not exactly my thing. I don't care that it was in there, but I wasn't exactly interested in playing the boyfriend to a gay pirate.

I know they're not exactly the same thing, but being a little weirded out about hooking up with a guy isn't exactly that odd. I'll still do the quests for the sake of the heroine. She needs someone to love her for who she is

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September 23rd, 2009, 16:13
i always do it from an omnipresent godlike figure view, very seldom do I actually see the character as me. Female toons I almost look at in a patronly way, like some kind of bizarre father figure, which is all the more creepy because I'm kinda making sure they look as hot as possible lol.

While the totally-guy attitude of 'if it aint hardcore and macho than it's pussy' is one side of the coin, there's the opposite that's even worse in my opinion and even far more annoying - the "if it's not totally pussy it's redneck and barbaric" outlook. Tell ya, when that takes over a message board, and Ive seen it happen, it's nigh impossible to even have the will to login anymore. Overbearing machismo run rampant is shangri-la compared to that crap, you find yourself looking fondly back on the old days when men were men and the wimmens knew it.

So I'm cool w/ it, you know. Beer, boobs, 'n 4-wheelers all the way my bros! ='.'=
Last edited by xSamhainx; September 23rd, 2009 at 16:52.
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September 23rd, 2009, 16:43
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
No, *they* make it sound like a dating game.

Seriously though, as long as the combat is equal to the first game, I'll be quite happy with it.
I remember The Witcher, the cards… Well, I don't remember them well, I guess I've succesfully tried to eradicate them from my memory.
IIRC the whole seducing part - how he got them in his/her bed - was appalling for absent. Typical boyish thing. Infantile.

I guess interruptions like that do not meet your standard as well?

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September 23rd, 2009, 16:54
Originally Posted by Omega View Post
I remember The Witcher, the cards… Well, I don't remember them well, I guess I've succesfully tried to eradicate them from my memory.
IIRC the whole seducing part - how he got them in his/her bed - was appalling for absent. Typical boyish thing. Infantile.

I guess interruptions like that do not meet your standard as well?

The sex cards in The Witcher weren't a big deal to me either way, just like this isn't.

All I said was that it doesn't interest me, it's not as if I'm condemning it.
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September 23rd, 2009, 21:39
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
… but not where the buying power is.

It is a self-limiting attitude that shows gamers to be no different than other machismo-laden stereotypes - the type of thing that has made one of the worst movies in recent years (Transformers 2) a top seller because of T&A and 'big boom'. We claim to care about quality and good writing and balance … but in the end these attitudes show we want to dominate others, exploit base race stereotypes, and treat women as objects.

Hooray.
I have rarely read a statement here I agreed more to.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; September 24th, 2009 at 11:21. Reason: Edited because i believe I reacted too strong and not rational enough.
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September 23rd, 2009, 21:51
The customer group of male gamers … Well, this is already a cliché in itself.

I must say that I sometimes don't quite understand what's going on in the minds of both developers AND publishers that they are indeed limiting themselves by producing only for a fragmen of a possible customer's base.

Take The SIMs, for example. Rejected from EVERY (I almost wrote: male-driven) company but EA … And how it sells ! Its sales must be a pure insult to all male gamers who believe that "wussy stuff" just doesn't HAVE to sell !

And who also refuse to consider women as gamers in their own right - on the same level as them, that is.

Look at gaming magazines: Female gamers especially in the shooter genre are treated like … diamonds. So rare, so strong, so hard, so unbelievable …

Female gamers who play the SIMs at the same time … I don't think they'd be treated with the same amount of respect. All who are acting "like real men" are treated with respect, even women. Which means - to express is quite cynically - that those women are treated with respect who conceal their female identity. Just what's in the essence female about them.

There WILL be a huge outcry of gamers when the first game arrives that kind of combines the SIMs with Role Playing … And it'll be mostly "hardcore gamers", who are usually males.

But they are not the paying mass. Not then, when the first developers have managed to find a new group of customers: Women who'd like to see elements in games that they like - and which do not depict them as men's pets !

Right now, the cliché male game directs the development. Indirectly. Because "he" is considered as the only stable group of customers.

The first ones who go away from this point of view and who are opening their minds for reachong (out for) other audiences will see that the possible griup of customers can be vastly expanded.

And THEN, the cliché male gamer will perhaps even be the minority ! - And lamenting about "those good old times" when "he" was king …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 23rd, 2009, 23:51
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Female gamers who play the SIMs at the same time … I don't think they'd be treated with the same amount of respect. All who are acting "like real men" are treated with respect, even women. Which means - to express is quite cynically - that those women are treated with respect who conceal their female identity. Just what's in the essence female about them.
Em, I'm afraid I don't quite follow you… Women that like games that are usually played by men conceal their female identity? And what's that female essence of them you're talking about?

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
And THEN, the cliché male gamer will perhaps even be the minority ! - And lamenting about "those good old times" when "he" was king …
I really think I have to stand up for the cliché male gamer here. I agree, eating his pizza and drinking his coke it's difficult to see the difference between him and a Neanderthal, but I truly believe he likes to do do more than just expressing a casual 'rroarrrh!' and dreaming about grabbing women to his computer cave. I think the male gamer likes progress. He likes new things (a real woman in his cave for instance).

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September 24th, 2009, 01:22
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
First off, don't put words in my mouth, it's annoying to no end to be quoted on things I never said. "Anything but 'hardcore' is for 'pussies'" ? Are you seriously going to take something that I joked about and try to twist it around like that?

Your 'holier-than-thou' attempt here is completely laughable. My personal opinion on a single aspect of this game does not make me a dominating, exploiting, woman beating, slavemaster.
JDR - I apologize for my post quoting yours directly, as that has upset you and made some feel that the post was really directed at you … which it wasn't. Alrik got the gist of what I was saying …

And really, I find RPGWatch pretty enlightened compared to most places - but make no mistake, video gaming is indeed an 'old boys network' where the stuff that teen males rush to as a way of eschewing childhood, such as blood & gore & boobies & foul language.

And really, I have made no mistake that I love games like Soldier of Fortune 2 and Postal 2, which are full of these things. But I also know that they are the equivalent of the summer blockbuster movie … and many of us would like something a bit more substantial. And many of those who would like a 'real' mature experience are females, who are put off by the male-centric world of game developers and players.
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September 24th, 2009, 11:30
@Omega: I believe in different perceptions of the world, partly because of genetics, partly because of social surroundings which shape the person(s), by men and by women.

And since I believe so that the majority - or let me say "the cliché female gamer" would make different games than the majority - or "the cliché male gamer" would do. And now substitute "gamer" with "developer" … I'd really like to see how an RPG would look and feel like if it was made by a team almost entirely made by women. Because I hink that because of the different perceptions of the world such a team would make an RPG with a different emphasis than we are normally used to see.

What would be the "female cliché counterpart" of games like "Soldiers of Fortune and similar games ? What would be the "female cliché counterpart" of let's say war games in general ?

How would - on a different level - a "hero's journey" type of game look like for females ?

Curiosly, I don't even remember having heard of a "female counterpart" of that "hero's journey", they all seem to be about male heroes.

What's a female hero, then ? How does she behave ? Does she even exist as an archetype at all ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 24th, 2009, 11:56
I might be misunderstanding your point here Alrik, but a female hero still does 'the stages' of the hero's myth. It's just a female instead of a male and you would have to replace the temptress stage with a casanova.

Men and women may be different, but I don't believe women are that much different. Ever seen a woman pissed off before? It's about the same as any pissed off man….well, maybe more devious than us. My g/f is downright scary when she gets mad.

Anyways, I just thought your reasoning was a little strange. It's a good thing Joan of Arc isn't around anymore or she would smite thee with a terrible vengence.

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September 24th, 2009, 13:09
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
JDR - I apologize for my post quoting yours directly, as that has upset you and made some feel that the post was really directed at you … which it wasn't. Alrik got the gist of what I was saying …

I was already in a foul mood yesterday before I logged on, lets just say I overreacted a bit.

We should all get back to talking about the actual game….
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September 24th, 2009, 13:50
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
We should all get back to talking about the actual game….
Where's the fun in that? It's not everyday I get to say that I don't want to be the boyfriend to a gay pirate.

But, if we must go back to the game then we must.

When is this coming out anyways?

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September 24th, 2009, 15:09
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
What's a female hero, then ? How does she behave ? Does she even exist as an archetype at all ?
Originally Posted by skavenhorde View Post
Men and women may be different, but I don't believe women are that much different. E
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
We should all get back to talking about the actual game….

IMHO there are more similiarities between men and women than differences.

Maybe we ought to play KB: Armored Princess to find out.

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September 24th, 2009, 16:36
I'm not to thrilled about the whole "boyfriend" angle either. But it's just a minor issue to contend with. I'm quite eager to get back into King's Bounty gameplay.

BTW, if I have to play as a female character (I prefer males), I like to pretend that she is not interested in long-term relationsihps at the moment. She'll do quick one-nighters to satisfy her needs, but she is focused on adventure — not shopping or relationships.
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