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November 14th, 2009, 10:18
First question: How important would it be for Leliana to have stealth?
Btw, I'm assuming traps is a must…

Oh, and how about the Bard's "distract" skill?
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November 14th, 2009, 12:38
My main is a rogue. I find Stealth useless - though I admit I haven't advanced the ranks. All the scripted encounters trigger anyway, so the only advantage is one critical backstab from the first hit. Be interested to see if anyone else sees it differently.

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November 14th, 2009, 13:05
I was also thinking that about stealth, I've found no real use for it at all.

Leliana is apparently the only NPC Rogue?
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November 14th, 2009, 17:25
There's Zevran (the melee oriented rogue) as well, JDR.

For Leliana, I'd say stealth is probably pointless.

For Zevran or a dual-wielding PC stealth could possibly be useful, as the higher stealth ranks say you can stealth in combat, but I haven't tried it myself. Sneaking in and starting combat by taking out a mage quickly is nice, also.

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Last edited by KazikluBey; November 14th, 2009 at 17:57.
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November 14th, 2009, 17:51
Btw, I'm assuming traps is a must…
Spotting traps sure is.
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November 14th, 2009, 17:56
Yeah, I meant at least level one traps - and then of course, since you find a lot of stuff for trapmaking, you can just as well make a few too, eh?
Problem is, the situation is'nt often very conducive to trap laying…

Thanks for the input, guys.
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November 14th, 2009, 21:46
I don't think you're going to spot many traps with just one level though, especially later in the game.

Do any NPCs start with a level in traps? I think I have everyone except Zevran now.
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November 15th, 2009, 10:12
My main is rogue - but he doesn't has much chance to focused on rogue's melee talents (backstabbing) as i building him primarily for persuasion and stealth game play. He was quite useful in:

1) scouting ahead to check up types and composition of enemies, room layout, then planning combat tactics, spotting traps and disabled them first (or lay the traps strategically) before the rest of your party charging in.

2) Weaken or thinning up enemies by luring them to your tanks, or by using stealth looking for group of enemies or a mage, throw a bomb and then use stealth to hid (can be repeated)

- i tried "below the belt" attacks at dragon but got swipe away
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November 15th, 2009, 10:22
Originally Posted by Remus View Post
1) scouting ahead to check up types and composition of enemies, room layout, then planning combat tactics, spotting traps and disabled them first (or lay the traps strategically) before the rest of your party charging in.
Can you expand on this? For me, the encounter triggers when I get close and that just leaves my rogue unprotected because everyone else is too far away. I find it better to just approach, pause and survey.

Is it because of more ranks? Can you actually approach, and then withdraw?

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November 15th, 2009, 10:42
1) The scouting thing can't be done if there are scripted cut-scene / conversation on particular NPC / location ahead of you (usually with big arrow above their head).

2) I use ranged weapon so i can snipe at enemies from afar, when one or more start chasing me, i quickly ran to my tanks.

3) Make sure to pick combat movement for outmaneuvering opponents, and get dark passage talent (blood power, got it from Soldier's Peak quest) for nimbleness and quicker movement when using stealth.

4) I think your stealth level should high enough or else the cool down period would be too long to re-use the stealth again or easily get detected. I could walk around them without get detected (archer, mage, drake, fighter)
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November 15th, 2009, 16:44
Useful for mages: get rogue into position, pull with tank, backstab/dirty fight the mage.
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November 16th, 2009, 11:11
Depends what kind of rogue you're building. You can use Leliana both as melee and ranged. I've built successful rogues both for ranged and melee, so both are viable. In fact, I'd say an Assassin/Duelist (Leliana can't achieve that) is overpowered with enough dex/def (they can solo Revenants, because they dodge virtually all the attacks).

To elaborate on what woges said:
For a melee rogue, I'd always put 1 point into Stealth, so you can turn off tactics and position the rogue near enemy casters. Then run in with your main tank. As soon as people start attacking the tank, the mage your rogue is behind will start casting. Use "Dirty Fighting" at this point, and then crit the mage to death before he/she can do anything dangerous to your party (fireball, chain lightning, etc).

For a ranged rogue, I honestly think Stealth is useless.
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November 16th, 2009, 16:44
Actually trap making is far from a must. I use Leliana as rogue and she doesn't have any points in it. She detects traps by cunning, and so far has been able to disable them all, so I think trap skill is only for *making* (and using?) traps.
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November 16th, 2009, 19:45
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Actually trap making is far from a must. I use Leliana as rogue and she doesn't have any points in it. She detects traps by cunning, and so far has been able to disable them all, so I think trap skill is only for *making* (and using?) traps.
That's very strange, normally the higher the trap making skill is, the higher the chance to detect traps. Also, some traps can only be detected if you have this or that level in the skill. Quite like some chests/containers can only be unlocked if you're high enough in the relevant skill.
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November 16th, 2009, 22:35
Originally Posted by BlackHarmo View Post
That's very strange, normally the higher the trap making skill is, the higher the chance to detect traps. Also, some traps can only be detected if you have this or that level in the skill. Quite like some chests/containers can only be unlocked if you're high enough in the relevant skill.
Are you sure it's not just 'cunning'? Unless Leliana started with points in it (and I don't think she did), she doesn't have any points in trap making, but she has a high cunning, and she has disabled all traps I've seen.
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November 16th, 2009, 23:14
Hmm… you might be right. I'm checking just now, and the rogue's chain skill "deft hand"/'improved tools"/etc is not just for unlocking chest but traps too. Still, I'll have to launch the game because I could have swear that the trap making tooltips said something about detection too… well, now I'm curious.
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November 17th, 2009, 01:36
Don't forget injuries can affect skills. Had to heal Leliana of an injury once when she failed to open a chest. After healing the chest was no problem!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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November 17th, 2009, 01:53
My rogue is like one of the most entertaining characters Ive played. My opinion is that at least one level of stealth is essential for an assassin-type rogue. True, there are cutscenes, and times you are detected, but the rest of the time it really comes in handy for scouting out the coming battle and situation, and maybe getting right behind that archer or spellcaster.

Laying traps is like poison - true you dont really need it, but it can make a noticeable difference when used. I like em. I could have sworn I saw in the description on the traps skill that it aids in detection too, btw, in fact that's what helped solidify my decision to start dropping points in it in the first place iirc.

I initially started with an archer-type rogue, i was essentially making a ranger who could pick locks. Then, I read a "rogue theory" thread somwhere, where a player basically laid it out as "if youre going to play a rogue, use their archetypical rogue skills (poison,sneaking,traps,backstabbing,stealing) to the max or youre wasting their potential. Rogues are meant to be primarily backstabbers, dagger wielders with a bow as a backup weapon"

I thought about it, and after playing both types (in other games too) I have to agree. Poison, grenades, laying traps, the thrill of sneaking up behind just to stun and poison w/ a nice critical backstab is great fun. Plus, all you need to do is penetrate (a rogue specialty) and armor doesnt mean a whole lot once the poison starts!

Plus, the archery tree in this game is so utterly boring….
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November 17th, 2009, 06:33
Ok, to settle the Trap Debate I made a couple images to compare the official verbage from the game. My conclusion:

The lockpicking talents do not grant you any bonuses to trap detection, yet they do enable you to supposedly disable more complex traps as you level it.

Meanwhile, the Trap Making skill:
First level of the skill, you can basically make traps, but when you hit Improved Trap Making you can detect enemy traps at "greater range". At Master, you can detect them at greater range yet.

Final conclusion is that your cunning determines the complexity of traps you can detect, trap making tells you sooner where they are, and lockpicking lets you disarm them.

I added bonus pic of Draconia because she's awesome ='.'=
Attached Images
File Type: jpg locks.jpg (69.0 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg traps.jpg (255.8 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg draconia01.jpg (38.0 KB, 52 views)
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November 17th, 2009, 06:41
Here's what I'm still a bit confused about.

What if someone has very high cunning, but doesn't have the Trap skill….can they detect traps at all?
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