Deus Ex 3 - Square Enix to do Cinematics

Originally Posted by Anderson
Just to be clear, I have no problem with Jemy or anyone criticizing the US. I'm just flabbergasted at his statement that American has produced no artistic accomplishments in the area of literature, film, music, etc.. Such ignorance boggles the mind.

Nor do I. Everyone should be able to criticize anything they wish to, in a non-violent public forum, whenever they want.

It's the American way.

It's the willful ignorance of ones own ignorance that I'm having trouble tolerating here. I think we share the same view on this.

Ok, I'm out.

May everyone have a wonderful day, including JemyM.

Originally Posted by Anderson
So in your opinion, there has been zero artistic achievement in the entire history of the United States, and all of the critical acclaim is attributable to marketing budgets.

First, the post I posted was a provocation and a challenge. Every once in awhile you will see me do things like that just to see if I got a good response. I do not use "I think" or "I believe" in front of a sentence, I just propose it as a fact. I am interested to see how you react. You may call it an intellectual or social game if you so want, a call for a debate on a certain topic which begins with a radical position and go from there, just to see where the challenge leads. The initial position might turn out to just be absurd, or it might turn out to have a grain of truth in it which means that the following discussion may offer interesting perspectives and things to think about. If you watched me for awhile you will know that I rarely keep a position and change standpoint pretty frequently. My in depth views are too complex to formulate in forum posts.

Second, I said that the mentioned effort won't come from the US because it's cultural goal is radically different than that of a place like Japan. Let me explain that further. There's a difference between a culture that encourage such achievements and individuals who strive on their own. Creativity is in human nature, but it doesn't need to be culturally recognized, promoted or supported. Asia is focused on human achievements more than pretty much any other place in the world today, japan even have a holiday dedicated to progress. These cultures are eager to support major projects even if it's a waste of money because the achievement itself is the payback for doing so. In the US what you get in return is more important, which means that American products/art tend to be streamlined to "what market department know sells" which means less experimentation. The difference in games from US/Japan show this trend pretty well.

Have a look at the lectures I posted and the angle will get more clear.

Originally Posted by JDR13
He apparently knows more about America than any of us…. even though he's never been here.

I have.

Originally Posted by Dyspaire
May everyone have a wonderful day, including JemyM.

Thanks man.

Originally Posted by JemyM
In the US what you get in return is more important,

I tend to agree.

This would have consequences of … let's say, game design, if games were (or are) considered art.

They would be made not to encompass the highest possible artistic achievement, but rather to comply to the greatest reachable audience.

Another example would be music. Decisions in pop music, for example are often fulelled by the desire to reach the most possible audience … Which could influence productions. The more demanding and complex the songs are, the less likely they are going to be produced and/or published.

Warner seems to have knack at how to do this. They publish individual versions of albums in different countries, try to influence the music artists …

From Wikipedia (compiled) :

Bonus Tracks released in Japan only
Bonus tracks - on some issues of the basic release in Latin America
Bonus Track also on its own as a bonus on an Australian release
Bonus track on Japanese, French & Australian editions of the album
Bonus Track on Limited Asian AVCD edition
Bonus track available on Japanese and limited German release

Edit : I just read that Warner has reserved 300 out of 1000 specimens of the "Collector's Edition" of Enya's newest CD for Japan …


What is the reason behind the selling of these individual versions ? I don't know.

However, the music industry - it reads "industry", remember that ! an "industry" is usually a departure from [individual] art itself ! in the U.S. is rather centered on maximizing profits than to support the artistic goal of the artists. At least that's my impression.

I don't know of a country where art is as closely linked to economy as in the U.S. .

This might not be true for paintings, and for other forms of art, but for the music "industry" very much, imho.

Originally Posted by JemyM
If you watched me for awhile you will know that I rarely keep a position and change standpoint pretty frequently.

Yes….we know.

Originally Posted by JemyM
In the US what you get in return is more important, which means that American products/art tend to be streamlined to "what market department know sells" which means less experimentation. The difference in games from US/Japan show this trend pretty well.

You're talking about business, not art, and you're extremely naive if you believe that it's radically different elsewhere.

I find your mention of Japan to be especially humorous, considering that it has a mostly collectivist society that focuses on avoiding risk, and places little value on personal freedom. I would expect someone who is supposedly studying Japanese to know this.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
However, the music industry - it reads "industry", remember that ! an "industry" is usually a departure from [individual] art itself ! in the U.S. is rather centered on maximizing profits than to support the artistic goal of the artists. At least that's my impression.

This might not be true for paintings, and for other forms of art, but for the music "industry" very much, imho.

That's because it's an INDUSTRY.

The primary goal of any industry is to maximize profits, and it's the same everywhere. No industry has ever been interested in "artistic" goals…

Back to Deus Ex 3 , Cinematics ? C&C ussually go very badly with cinematics… since it is impossible to create one cinematic for each possiblitiy in a none linear story… so I hope they mean the intro… but given that they use plural….. my hope of this being none linear is close to 0.

Originally Posted by JemyM
First, the post I posted was a provocation and a challenge. Every once in awhile you will see me do things like that just to see if I got a good response. [….]

Some would call that trolling. I would just call it attention-seeking and a desire to stir the pot.

In this case, I don't think you stirred discussion so much as marked yourself as an ignoramus.

My in depth views are too complex to formulate in forum posts.

lol, yes, your actual views are too complex for words … and the words you actually use don't represent your actual thoughts. Nice rationalization.

Here's what a mature person would do, Jemy: they would be accountable for what they wrote; they wouldn't put it off as not representing their actual thoughts; and when they were wrong about the facts, they would just say so and move on.

Originally Posted by Anderson
I don't think you stirred discussion so much as marked yourself as an ignoramus.

So far I haven't got a an attempt to challenge what I said, but Alrik actually did both understand the issue and expanded on it. Perhaps I misjudged you.

How about we get back to actual Dues Ex news and stop playing silly "experiments".

And now back to the real topic of Dues Ex 3:

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
Back to Deus Ex 3 , Cinematics ? C&C ussually go very badly with cinematics… since it is impossible to create one cinematic for each possiblitiy in a none linear story… so I hope they mean the intro… but given that they use plural….. my hope of this being none linear is close to 0.

GG, what about The Witcher? That had tons of C&C and some decent cut scenes in it.

Originally Posted by skavenhorde
what about The Witcher? That had tons of C&C and some decent cut scenes in it.

The C&C related presentation in The Witcher was either game engine cutscenes or 2D art. There's a vast production gulf between that and the pre-rendered cinematics they're talking about here. But in the unlikely event they get the gameplay right it shouldn't matter much. The meat of the choices in Deus Ex was in the path to an outcome rather than the outcome itself.

Although I've horrible visions of Deus Ex Metal Gear Solid dancing around my head.

The dream version of Deus Ex, to me, would be a free-roaming environment with developed concepts of freedom in terms of mission approach.

A more cerebral "thinking man's GTA" with a serious tone, focusing on stealth/gadgetry/rpg mechanics and a strong Shadowrun feel.