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RPGWatch Forums » Games » Drakensang » Drakensang » vs Dragon Age?

Default vs Dragon Age?

December 28th, 2009, 00:00
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
WoW has definitely established some standards that every RPG developer (who wants to be successful) is adhering to these days (like the way you control the camera by holding down the RMB, ).
Ok, I really need to know this, because the RMB instead of the old tried-and -trusted WASD mouseloook really really rankles me - why do you have to depress RMB, instead of simply having the old-fashioned mouselook that rotated your camera for you without you having to depress any buttons - why can it not still be done by pure movement of the mouse?

I do understand that here we are zooming in and out, and perhaps it's ok to depress the RMB when we are doing 3dimensional tilts from above, but I'm sure that even that could be achieved simply with the old-fashioned mouselook that worked simply with mouse movement - no buttons.
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December 28th, 2009, 18:01
In a game where you have all kinds of clickable interface (like modern RPGs tend to have) an automatic mouselook wouldn't be very practible. Especially in combat situations, where you click on your quickbar, the enemies and other stuff all the time.
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December 28th, 2009, 18:23
Originally Posted by ulixes View Post
In a game where you have all kinds of clickable interface (like modern RPGs tend to have) an automatic mouselook wouldn't be very practible. Especially in combat situations, where you click on your quickbar, the enemies and other stuff all the time.
This is of course true- though they could have toggled the function to a static view during battles..- oh! Pah! I suppose you're right…

Still, I find it a pain to hold the RMPB depressed all the time, but …- I do see your point.
Those functions could have been achieved with keyboard buttons, but that might also prove to be a pain in the neck.
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December 28th, 2009, 20:03
Originally Posted by RivianWitch View Post
Actually, you do get a backstab penalty and flanking penalty in DAO. Look at the circle around your character - the black part at the back is the backstab weak spot, and you will also often see flanking weak spots on the sides…
I know and use it a lot with my rogue in DAO but my feeling is that the consequences are a lot less important than in Drakensang. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Also in Drakensang, again I could be wrong, it's not only linked to back and side attack but also facing multiple opponents no matter the side.

The point, I could be wrong, is that I felt Drakensang struggle better against concentration tactics with all attacking one, in DAO it's very often an important part of a better efficiency when in Drakensang it's not and you must temper much more this approach and reduce it by having two attacking one when you can.

EDIT: One thing much better managed in DAO are small movements during fights like for example to position for a backstab attack. Very cool visually and generate a much more clear fight vision.
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December 28th, 2009, 20:18
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
….WoW has definitely established some standards that every RPG developer (who wants to be successful) is adhering to these days (like the way you control the camera by holding down the RMB, the way you can arrange and customize your toolbars by dragging and dropping, the way that buffs and debuffs are applied and displayed etc. etc. etc…. it's all very WoW-ish in a lot of the more recent RPGs).
What? I played wow during 2 month and didn't notice anything about the camera when it took me some time to get use to this in Drakensang?

Well I bet wow had other setup that I used instead but if I remember well it's not new setup with wow but NWN1 had the ability to not use mouselock but with a key, not sure if a MB press was possible.

For me the key point of Drakensang and DAO is to not let me another choice and force me learn use this setup and I dond't think wow did that.

Also for me, not sure if wow do it or not but it's still not the best setup there are missing things:
  • Mouselock on/off should be optionally a toggle not through a forced RMB but that you can program on anything, MB or key.
  • The games should have a toggle automove option (like in Morrowind) ie a move forward toggle command, very handy for CRPG.

With some tools I can program myself those two and did it for Drakensang but it's tedious not have that native in the game and for DAO I haven't yet took the time to program it too.

Other than that I haven't played any Blizzard game since a very long time but it's right they have always been a team very smart on interface design.
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December 28th, 2009, 20:53
You know, come to think of it, they could have let you toggle auto mouselook vs static camera with a key ; - say TAB. That would have been much more convenient, I think. The static camera thingie is one that tends to go with people who pefer to point and click. Since I'm a WASD type person, I tend to prefer the auto mouselook, but I cannot see why a compromise cannot be devised.

Yeah, and the continuous forward movement like capslock in Mw would also have been nice.
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December 28th, 2009, 21:11
The RMB for mouse look in DA isn't that big of a deal. I thought it was a bit odd at first, but it only took 15-20 minutes before it became second nature to me.
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December 28th, 2009, 23:28
I'm not sure about the LMB vs RMB management, if I remember well in Drakensang RMB is only for moving with a click and moving the cam for the drag and LMB is for selecting anything, in game (a target) and an element of the interface, I don't remember how you select multiple party members.

In DAO RMB is for interaction in game, for moving or selecting a target by clicking on it, LMB is for selecting an interface element by a click. There's certainly a reason but I don't understand the DAO choices about this and despite I already played many hours I'm still doing some wrong click.

EDIT:
For a standard shooters player the trick could be to replace:
Move forward/backward, Strafe left/right.
By:
Move forward/pause, Look left/right.

You'll lost the strafe and in DAO you could try use it a bit during fights but well it's not shooter and give up on it is fine because it's a team you manage and for the team strafe doesn't mean a lot. And in exchange you get a diversified cam control allowing using much much less the RMB drag to control the cam or to use it during shorter time.
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December 29th, 2009, 05:13
Since I came straight off of Drakensang, using RMB-hold to swivel the camera was like second nature. It feels very natural. DA was just like Drakensang. I use WASD to move. I alway remap those key to the FPS "standard" - forward, left strafe, backwards, right strafe.

I started NWN 2 VERY briefly AND really missed the Dragon Age controls.

Closest thing in NWN 2 was personal mode, over the shoulder, while using left button hold to move.
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December 29th, 2009, 06:02
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
I use WASD to move. I alway remap those key to the FPS "standard" - forward, left strafe, backwards, right strafe.

Same here, except I like to remap them to the 8, 4, 5, 6 keys on the numpad, been playing FPSs like that for years now.
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December 29th, 2009, 07:12
I wonder why you need strafe keys and even move backward for games like that with a team.

In NWN2 many people hate the controls but for me they are great with the tactical view constantly at max height, camera centered on character, border screen to adapt cam directions, know the key to reset cam to max high (one you know it you realize it doesn't happen so often and it's a very minor trouble).

One thing badly done in DAO is transparency management, none when it's very well done in Drakensang with the exception of being sometimes a little buggy, the transparency isn't managed for your move click, so you could see an area through transparency, click on it and it's like if you click on the transparent object.
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December 29th, 2009, 21:55
Because I like to control a single character when exploring in totally zoomed in view and the strafe keys are useful when trying to get into little niches, that maybe be obscurred. Also sometimes there are hangups when trying to activate objects. It's always a good idea to have a backup to a simplistic point and click control scheme because of path finding problems that are almost always inevitable. Luckily there were few in Drakensang, but enough that using WASD necessary in a few cases.

Also sometime I like to reorient my characters, and having the key to do turns in place is useful for that. Just a simple point and click interface is just too basic for me.
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December 30th, 2009, 07:43
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Same here, except I like to remap them to the 8, 4, 5, 6 keys on the numpad, been playing FPSs like that for years now.
You're a leftie, right?

Because otherwise you're movement-controls (numpad) and look-controls (mouse) would be very uncomfortably close to each other. Even closer then when you'd use the arrow-keys, like I did in oldschool FPS games. That was a pain already.
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December 30th, 2009, 10:01
Originally Posted by ulixes View Post
You're a leftie, right?

Nope. I simply scoot my keyboard a few extra inches to the left when I'm gaming. I've been playing that way since Duke Nukem 3D.
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December 30th, 2009, 17:45
Strange answer, why Duke Nuken and not Doom? In both you could remap keys as you want.

For me since Doom, WSAD is remapped to E, R, T, Spacebar.

And for Strafe in Drakensang or DAO, you search in corners very well with only the move forward+Turn left/right, no need of any strafe key.

EDIT: And since Doom I also used a Kensington Trackball… for those who know.
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December 30th, 2009, 20:30
I prefer to use strafe keys rather than a multi-key combinaton to get something done. It's more efficient that way.
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December 30th, 2009, 21:00
Lol yes a matter of preference, for me it's that I prefer use the less keys than possible and hit them a bit more isn't a problem if that allow me reduce the number of keys.

Clearly in fps shooters strafe is vital, in a party game like DAO strafe is more a deluxe option.
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December 31st, 2009, 07:33
The only movement key I used in Drakensang was W. for turning I used mouse by holding the right key. Missing strafe doesn't bothered me, like not with Kotor either.
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December 31st, 2009, 10:05
I played multiple parts of Kotor and gave up because I never succeed understand how was working the fights, I got a lot of troubles with the pause and even more when I tried didn't use the pause.

In Drakensang I also played a lot with only the W remapped to R but rather soon I used a toggle system for the mouselock on/off and in mid game I exchanged the strafe keys for turn keys.

The problem with all those controls is that we played too much too many game with similar controls popularized by Doom controls system. So it's rather hard to change for a new system. At least for me. In fact I have two systems, the Doom like and the other is the BG1 like, well I'm sure older game allowed use the mouse for controlling anything in the game but I don't remember which one, probably at least Fallout 1… More probably adventure games.
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December 31st, 2009, 18:16
I remapped WASD soon into the arrow keys, which are kind of traditional for me.
I tried the demo of Drasa2 with WASD, and it worked relatively good.
I wonder how long it will take until I remap it again …

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