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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Bioshock - Official Trailer #2 @ Gamespot

Default Bioshock - Official Trailer #2 @ Gamespot

December 17th, 2006, 05:39
"He is also listed as a designer on System Shock 1."
I haven't been able to find this listing, as I posted in his bio up above he is list himself as co-producer, even Wikipedia seems to confirm it, i.e. "worked with" that is a sure sign of outside producer and not to mention KLevine said the same thing at Blue's.

I though exactly the same thing you do and KLevine pointed out my mistake and most eveything seems to confirm what he said. so this is just the best of my understanding and knowledge, atm.

I am just going by his interviews as I mentioned where he said his design idea never got implemented in Dues Ex but did in Dx2 which afaik no one liked, it might have met better reception if it had been made more mouse friendly.

Usually Project Directors are like referees, schedulers and organizers not creators, though you sure could be right.

I am defiantly looking forward to his JPS’s RPG (guess) with Valve and I hope some day he gets to make a game based on the world he has conceptualized, though I think he has said the technology for the dialogue and choices is not yet available.

BioShock seems to be a great opportunity, when Irrational is in charge of design and implementation they have done exceptional work.
The last 4 or 5 games Irrational has done were niche market games and even with the existing franchises they worked on recently have gotten at least 80%, iir.
I am guessing they just need to focus on each format separately especially as far as controls and aiming.
The combat already looks very visceral, and they are very competent as far as stories and tension, imo.

I am not sure if they are going to be any dialogue choices which could upset RPG fans or if Irrational will use your actions as your alignment, much like PatrickWeekes from Bioware mentioned in the Jade Empire thread.

Now I certainly think Irrational is trying something new and evolutionary, unlike when Warren says he will admit he dropped the ball on DX2, “if others are willing to admit, we were trying something new”.
Problem is no one ever really thought their new ideas were new or would work well on a PC, well except maybe some console people.
No offense to console players, I am sure they want more console controls in their Ports so they are easier to play, except DX2 was a console game forced to work on a PC, that’s not innovation.
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December 17th, 2006, 07:34
Originally Posted by Acleacius View Post
"He is also listed as a designer on System Shock 1."
I haven't been able to find this listing, as I posted in his bio up above he is list himself as co-producer, even Wikipedia seems to confirm it, i.e. "worked with" that is a sure sign of outside producer and not to mention KLevine said the same thing at Blue's.
Let me make it easier on you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Shock

Also, his bio says….

"Subsequently he worked with Origin Systems and Looking Glass Studios, on games including Ultima Underworld I and II, System Shock, and Thief."

He worked WITH those studios ON those games. Also, even if he was listed as a producer instead of a designer, that doesn't mean that he didn't have creative input on those games. It actually sounds to me like you might be missinterpreting what a producer is concerning computer games. Warren Spector definitely worked hands on with System Shock and the UU games. Most articles on the web simply refer to him as the 'creator' of those games.

As far as Deus Ex is concerned, he was the brain behind that game 100%. If you have any doubts still remaining just type "deus ex creator" into Yahoo and see what you come up with.

Concerning Bioshock, I don't want to see dialog choices at all. I'm hoping for an overwhelming sense of isolation similar to the atmosphere of System Shock 2.
Last edited by JDR13; December 17th, 2006 at 07:49.
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December 17th, 2006, 07:52
i'm with you completely on that jdr13.
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December 17th, 2006, 09:39
Look what you get when you click on designer next to his name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_designer
Please don't click on the virus as it could have been hacked, it obviously makes no since.
Wikiopedia obviously makes mistakes or gets hacked which ever is appropriate.

"It actually sounds to me like you might be missinterpreting what a producer is concerning computer games"
Hehe, well what exactly I am misrepresenting?
What definition of producer are you using?
I thought my explanation was fairly accurate.
I am just using literal definitions (well best I can).
Hehe, I am using direct quotes from his bio, "He was project director on Ion's award-winning action/RPG, Deus Ex," how is this me trying to misrepresent?

Since your questioning me about misrepresenting a word.
How do you get "definitely worked hands on" and "the brain behind that game 100%" from the word "With" or words "worked with"?
You seem to be giving him all the credit for Deus Ex with "100%", did no one else had contributed any thought on the game?

Doubts?
Here is what I get in google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q…=Google+Search
Basically nothing, if you remove the first entry about DX2, which my quote from his bio was "As Studio Director, he oversaw development of Deus Ex: Invisible War, released in December 2003, and Thief: Deadly Shadows, released in June 2004."
Studio Director".
Hope that’s not misleading.

"I'm hoping for an overwhelming sense of isolation similar to the atmosphere of System Shock 2."
That would be great, as they were able to have the 2 (4 with the 2 that leave on the shuttle, but they never contacted us) living humans contact us in System Shock 2 without dialogue choices for sure, just not sure if that's what they intend or they can pull that off again.

Ken's made it clear there are two opposing factions and people/beings/creatures (not sure how to classify them) will be contacting us and we would be working with at least one of them against the other, iir.
Not sure if we can proceed with out either group’s support and unlike SS2 there will be more than 4 living humans, since on of the factions opposes the use of the artificial enhancing organism, well that's my take anyway.
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December 17th, 2006, 10:44
[QUOTE=Acleacius;12779]Look what you get when you click on designer next to his name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_designer
Please don't click on the virus as it could have been hacked, it obviously makes no since.
Wikiopedia obviously makes mistakes or gets hacked which ever is appropriate.*END QUOTE*

Not sure what you're talking about here. I had no problems with that link.(just checked it again) Why doesn't it make sense? Every clickable link in Wikipedia leads to a description of the word or words in that link.

*QUOTE*
"It actually sounds to me like you might be missinterpreting what a producer is concerning computer games"
Hehe, well what exactly I am misrepresenting?
What definition of producer are you using?
I thought my explanation was fairly accurate.
I am just using literal definitions (well best I can).
Hehe, I am using direct quotes from his bio, "He was project director on Ion's award-winning action/RPG, Deus Ex," how is this me trying to misrepresent?
Since your questioning me about misrepresenting a word.
How do you get "definitely worked hands on" and "the brain behind that game 100%" from the word "With" or words "worked with"?
You seem to be giving him all the credit for Deus Ex with "100%", did no one else had contributed any thought on the game? *END QUOTE*

Just what do you think a project director is? He was the #1 man behind Deus Ex, It's fairly common knowledge. Name another person who's name is mentioned along with DX anywhere near as much as his. No, he didn't make it 100% by himself. Obviously he had a team helping him, but he was the head of that team.
Thus - Project Director.

What would lead you to believe otherwise? Do you have secret information that no one else has? Did Ken Levine tell you otherwise?

I'm obviously just joking with those last 2 questions. But seriously, at this point I'm starting to question why you would even continue to debate about this.

*QUOTE*
Doubts?
Here is what I get in google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q…=Google+Search
Basically nothing, if you remove the first entry about DX2, which my quote from his bio was "As Studio Director, he oversaw development of Deus Ex: Invisible War, released in December 2003, and Thief: Deadly Shadows, released in June 2004."
Studio Director".
Hope that’s not misleading. *END QUOTE*

Somehow it doesn't look to me like you tried very hard to really dig up any info.
I see you didn't follow my suggestion with Yahoo. Maybe because you're not going to like what you find?

Not only will you find numerous articles about Warren Spector and Deus Ex, but most of them will also mention his work on SS 1 and the UU series.

If you can't let yourself take my word for it then ask others.
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/index.php
Here is a site dedicated to Looking Glass Studios. It specializes in the SS, Thief, and Deus Ex series, as well as others. Feel free to go there and post on the forums. Make sure you ask about Warren Spector.


I'm being cautious about getting too excited about Bioshock at this stage. It makes me a little nervous that they're developing it for Xbox 360 at the same time instead of making it a pc game first.
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December 17th, 2006, 17:16
"Worked on Thief" is quite bogus. He is mentioned in the "Special Thanks"-list of Thief 1 and 2, iirc, but that's all.
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December 17th, 2006, 19:08
Originally Posted by Hindukönig View Post
"Worked on Thief" is quite bogus. He is mentioned in the "Special Thanks"-list of Thief 1 and 2, iirc, but that's all.

Let me be more specific. He worked on Thief: Deadly Shadows.


*EDIT* Actually, there are quite a few sources on the web that claim he did indeed work on the original Thief. I also found his name as part of the development team listed in the game manual.
Last edited by JDR13; December 18th, 2006 at 03:05.
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December 17th, 2006, 20:36
" Not sure what you're talking about here."
Hehe, that's funny they actually found it before you got to see it.
Someone had hacked in the very first sentence the word "game" and replaced it with "virus".
I didn't want anyone to actually click on it, since it seemed obviously a hack job.

"Just what do you think a project director is"
A leader and organizer, sort of like a producer but focused on one game.

"Do you have secret information that no one else has? Did Ken Levine tell you otherwise?"
Lol, look if you don't believe me or that KLevine doesn't post on Blue's that's fine, this information isn't pertinent to anyone’s well being and just like when I spoke of PatrickWeekes posting here at RPGWatch I used appropriate cavots, iir.

"Maybe because you're not going to like what you find? "
Lol, it was 4am and I don't use Yahoo except as a last resort so I had a Google link handy.
Are you suggestion Yahoo has secret knowledge Google can't get?

"Feel free to go there and post on the forums"
Thanks.
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Registered: Jul 2002

I would list my Ion Storm registration date here in Austin but the boards were taken down.

Warren and Harvey.
My thoughts in hind site, about a year before release there seemed to be a deep division on Dues Ex with one team wanting to make really innovative dialogue choices and multiple paths, the other team was more limited choices.
About 8 months before release there was a mass exodus about 40 (iir) and I believe Warren had to choose, letting most of the really innovative team go to stop the division and get the game out.
Since Harvey did DX2 you can guess which team he was on, especially with his design strategy for DX2 taking many shortcuts turning it into a console game.
I am not attacking Harvey personally I am sure he is a good guy but I suspect he was raised on console game and probably shouldn't be developing PC games, well unless he comes to realize the differences.

On the Ion Storm DX2 boards after release there was a very clever post by a member.
He posted two pictures one of the Old Flying Jalopy Car Homer Simpson drove with a tag "This is how Harvey views Dues Ex" and a second picture of a sleek beautiful Mustang or Trans Am (it's been awhile) with the tag "This is how the Deus Ex community view Dues Ex" was one of the most popular threads on the DX2 boards and was very poignant.

Bioshock
That's true and Irrational has never developed a console game before afaik, but they are such inherently PC gamers I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Edit
" Let me be more specific"
You mentioned the first Thief earlier too, but still worked on TDS is still ambiguous as a Studio Director.
Last edited by Acleacius; December 17th, 2006 at 20:45.
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December 17th, 2006, 21:25
[QUOTE=Acleacius;12814]"

"Just what do you think a project director is"
A leader and organizer, sort of like a producer but focused on one game.

Bingo! Now we're on the same page

"Do you have secret information that no one else has? Did Ken Levine tell you otherwise?"
Lol, look if you don't believe me or that KLevine doesn't post on Blue's that's fine, this information isn't pertinent to anyone’s well being and just like when I spoke of PatrickWeekes posting here at RPGWatch I used appropriate cavots, iir. *END QUOTE*

Do you even realize that Ken Levine had nothing whatsoever to do with Deus ex?
He was never a member of Ion Storm or any team that worked on either of the Deus Ex games. That's why I made that joke, I couldn't understand why you kept mentioning his name.


Are you suggestion Yahoo has secret knowledge Google can't get?

No, but Google and Yahoo don't pull up the exact same things.

***********************

Warren and Harvey.
My thoughts in hind site, about a year before release there seemed to be a deep division on Dues Ex with one team wanting to make really innovative dialogue choices and multiple paths, the other team was more limited choices.
About 8 months before release there was a mass exodus about 40 (iir) and I believe Warren had to choose, letting most of the really innovative team go to stop the division and get the game out.
Since Harvey did DX2 you can guess which team he was on, especially with his design strategy for DX2 taking many shortcuts turning it into a console game.
I am not attacking Harvey personally I am sure he is a good guy but I suspect he was raised on console game and probably shouldn't be developing PC games, well unless he comes to realize the differences.

******************
Not sure if that paragraph is taken from an interview or an article but it pretty much sums up what I've been saying.

" Warren had to choose, letting most of the really innovative team go to stop the division and get the game out"

If that sentence doesn't reflect who the head guy was, than nothing will.

"Harvey" is Harvey Smith btw. He was one of the designers who worked on DX under Warren Spector. It's worth noting that he was actually the project leader on DX: Invisble War(as it mentions). Not sure if that game would have been better if Warren had been project leader, but many Deus Ex fans(myself included) were very disappointed with Invisible War. That's why the DX community was so divided on those 2 games.

I especially agree with the last part of that paragraph that talks about how Harvey basically made DX:IW a console game. It was very watered down compared to the first Deus Ex.
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December 17th, 2006, 21:57
Also, just to clear up any friendly confusion concerning Ken Levin and Warren Spector.

Regarding System Shock,
Warren Spector worked on System Shock 1 but did NOT work on SS2.
Ken Levine worked on SS2 but did NOT work on System Shock.

Regarding the Thief games.
Warren Spector worked on Thief and Thief: Deadly Shadows.
Ken Levine worked on Thief.
Neither of them are listed in the credits for Thief 2: The Metal Age.

Ken created the original story and game design for the first Thief and is generally considered the main guy behind that game.

I'm not sure exactly how much Warren Spector was involved in the first Thief, but it is listed in his bio as a game he worked on. He is also listed in the credits in the game manual.
He was the founder of Ion Storm Inc.'s Austin branch, which developed Thief: Deadly Shadows.
Last edited by JDR13; December 18th, 2006 at 00:55.
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December 18th, 2006, 14:37
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Bioshock. Is it going to match the hype, or disappoint?
I watched that long gameplay demo that they released a couple of months ago and I would say that the art direction and atmosphere look terrific, but the gameplay is sort of suspsect.
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December 18th, 2006, 22:47
"Bingo! Now we're on the same page"
Well if that's your idea of a producer then how on earth did you get all those comments about Warren making, creating and everything else to 100% deal?
Producers organize and control funds not make/create games.

"Do you even realize that Ken Levine had nothing whatsoever to do with Deus ex?"
Lol, are you just trying to change the subject every comment?
When did I suggest Levine worked on Deus Ex?
We were talking about Warren and SS 1, which Levine was working for Looking Glass on Thief at the time.
Were you aware of that?
If so your whole comment makes no since at all, except as a diversion attempt.

"No, but Google and Yahoo don't pull up the exact same things."
Not because something exist or doesn't exist only due to different procedurals, which since most of the evidence including Warren’s own bio suggest you are just not up to date on info and Google seems more efficient, since you would have posted something substantial if you had found it on Yahoo.

" Not sure if that paragraph is taken from an interview or an article but it pretty much sums up what I've been saying."

This is my opinion not an excerpt of an interview.

"f that sentence doesn't reflect who the head guy was, than nothing will."
Lol, you are defiantly changing your position.
Either you don't know or didn't know what an Producer is (hey don't feel bad no one is born with knowledge we all have to learn it) because earlier you were claming he made, created games and had creative input on Dues Ex games yet when I ask you seem to avoid answering my questions and I am trying to answer yours On the Merit.

"clear up any friendly confusion concerning"
Well if you want to use the words "worked on" in a vague and ambiguous way, that could be considering clearing up, in a completely generalizing way.

" Neither of them are listed in the credits for"
Friends, family and pets get mentioned in the credits.

"He was the founder of Ion Storm Inc.'s Austin branch"
Well actually John Romero hired Warren to run (Project Director as I mentioned) the Ion Austin office and actually he was hired to make Dues Ex and later Eidos took over Ion after John Romero blew development of Daikatana because of all the paries, hookers, hot tubs and coca.
Then Eidos gave Warren Studio director where he went on to OverSee the creation of DX2 and T3 as he has done in his past employment's, oversight and management not creation.

Now if your not familar with LG and IR they shared a house very much like PB does, they shared programmers, artist you name it, they were basicly seperated by rooms iir
The point being if IR hadn't moved out it's very possible he did contribute to T2 and even if they had moved out Levine propabaly still got credit for "based on the orginal story by", though I haven't taken the time to verify.


doctor_kaz
I don't see any reason they can't get the gameplay to at least a SS2 level since they were the original creators, certainly better gameplay would be amazing if possible.
Last edited by Acleacius; December 18th, 2006 at 22:54.
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December 19th, 2006, 05:52
[QUOTE=Acleacius;12910]"Bingo! Now we're on the same page"
Well if that's your idea of a producer then how on earth did you get all those comments about Warren making, creating and everything else to 100% deal?
Producers organize and control funds not make/create games.*end Quote*

Now you're changing words and it's becoming very lame Acleacius, you're obviously just someone who won't admit when they're wrong. So now he's back to being a producer? He was the PROJECT DIRECTOR. Yes, obviously there was an entire team that worked on the game, just like every other modern game ever made, but he ran that team and oversaw everything they did. Not to mention that he conceived the game to begin with. If you had to label one person as the "creator" then it would be Warren Spector. If there was another human being who was more responsible for the creation of Deus Ex then why don't you name him\her?


"Do you even realize that Ken Levine had nothing whatsoever to do with Deus ex?"
Lol, are you just trying to change the subject every comment?
When did I suggest Levine worked on Deus Ex?
We were talking about Warren and SS 1, which Levine was working for Looking Glass on Thief at the time.
Were you aware of that?
If so your whole comment makes no since at all, except as a diversion attempt.
*END QUOTE*


Not at all. To be honest with you I didn't know why you were bringing him up because you weren't being specific. You had said something earlier about him being on a forum(if that was really him) and commenting on Warren Spectors level of involvement on the first System Shock. Which I find that kind of odd since Ken Levine didn't work on the 1st System Shock. In fact, Ken Levine didn't even join Looking Glass until 1995, a year after SS was released.
But anyways, in the last few post his name came up without a specific game being mentioned along with it.



********
"No, but Google and Yahoo don't pull up the exact same things."
Not because something exist or doesn't exist only due to different procedurals, which since most of the evidence including Warren’s own bio suggest you are just not up to date on info and Google seems more efficient, since you would have posted something substantial if you had found it on Yahoo. *END QUOTE*


I happen to think Yahoo is more efficient, but that's just a matter of opinion. Did you want me to post links? I mentioned earlier that I could do that if you wanted me to.




***********
" Not sure if that paragraph is taken from an interview or an article but it pretty much sums up what I've been saying."

This is my opinion not an excerpt of an interview.

"f that sentence doesn't reflect who the head guy was, than nothing will."
Lol, you are defiantly changing your position.
Either you don't know or didn't know what an Producer is (hey don't feel bad no one is born with knowledge we all have to learn it) because earlier you were claming he made, created games and had creative input on Dues Ex games yet when I ask you seem to avoid answering my questions and I am trying to answer yours On the Merit. *END QUOTE*


I'm the one who should be LOL. How am I changing my position? I've been saying from the very beginning that Warren Spector was the main person behind Deus Ex. A fact that, for some strange reason you seem determined to argue about. Yet the funny thing is, you haven't given any names of anyone else to support your debate. If it wasn't Warren Spector then who was it? Like I said above, if there is someone more responsible for the creation Deus Ex then who was it? This entire time you have yet to mention any names other than Harvey Smith who was simply one of the designers that worked under Spector.

You can call him whatever you want, producer, director, etc, etc. He was the main person behind the creation of that game, a fact that only you are arguing about.

Like I suggested before, why don't you take your denial over to the Deus Ex forum at the TTLG forums and post there. See what you come up with.
Last edited by JDR13; December 19th, 2006 at 07:13.
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December 19th, 2006, 10:09
" So now he's back to being a producer? "
Lol, well of course, we keep talking about different games and he has held different positions, with so unusual about that?
You will have to pick on game if you want to focus on one postion he had, simple.
Of course none of them have included omni-conceptual designer as you tend to think.

"Not to mention that he conceived the game to begin with."
Really which game is this?
I don't want to try to cover every game he has worked on.

"To be honest with you I didn't know why you were bringing him up because you weren't being specific"
Well he worked there at the same time I thought, though thanks to your pointing out he wasn't there during the production of SS1.
He did comment on this very subject and was working with all those people, now one thing I can't prove, though I believe (haven't had time to research it) Levine was friends with one or more of the guys working there and is how he found his way to LG, so my idea is that he was actually in touch about LG and knew things before he was actually a legal employee iir, which is why I mentioned him.
Not to mention the Zen like fusion since he is pertinent to this thread in other ways.

Since Wiki is the only one that list Warren as Designer and is editable by many people it's a culmination of information, so has a tendency to be incorrect occasionally.
Now take this Mobey Games it's been around run by gamers for at least 7 year maybe 10 and only focuses on games.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/system-shock/credits

I may have to load to game, since I do have it though I am very comfortable at this point Warren was an outside producer, there just isn't any object information to suggest any different, atm.
I am glad Hindukönig remembered about Thief not that I mind playing it when I am interested but I hate having to install a game just for a scrap of information when I have other games I am in the middle of completing.

"I've been saying from the very beginning that Warren Spector was the main person behind Deus Ex"
Well that’s not all you been saying but, you have been very general at some points claiming he does everything, all I have been trying to do is be accurate with his positions at different companies on different games.

As I mentioned he was project/studio director oversight for Deus Ex , obviously the Lead Programmer Chris Norden and the 5 designers Marshall Andrews, Ricardo Bare, Monte Martinez, Steve Powers, Robert White not to mention John Romero whom chose to hire Warren to run the studio here in Austin to giving him the talented people whom created the game under Warren's directorship, that's whom and how I give credit as accurately as possible.
I would mention Harvey but believe (maybe incorrectly) he was responsible for much of what held Deus Ex back in his position as Lead Designer.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/deus-ex/credits.

You are more than welcome to post any links you would like, if you have some info you want to share, certainly I enjoy learning factual information especially about games I care about.
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December 20th, 2006, 06:06
Originally Posted by Acleacius View Post
"

"Not to mention that he conceived the game to begin with."
Really which game is this?
I don't want to try to cover every game he has worked on. *END QUOTE

This one.

http://rpgvaultarchive.ign.com/featu…s/deusex.shtml

Third paragraph, first sentence. (The entire article is a good read though)


************************
Since Wiki is the only one that list Warren as Designer and is editable by many people it's a culmination of information, so has a tendency to be incorrect occasionally.
Now take this Mobey Games it's been around run by gamers for at least 7 year maybe 10 and only focuses on games.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/system-shock/credits
************************
That's nice, but I'm not arguing about System Shock. What does that link have to do with Deus Ex?

*******************
I may have to load to game, since I do have it though I am very comfortable at this point Warren was an outside producer, there just isn't any object information to suggest any different, atm.
I am glad Hindukönig remembered about Thief not that I mind playing it when I am interested but I hate having to install a game just for a scrap of information when I have other games I am in the middle of completing.
**********************
Now what are you talking about? System Shock again? I never said Spector was the main guy behind that game, only that he had worked on it. In fact, go back to the first page and read my 5th post. I clearly stated that Doug Church was the Project Director behind SS.

I've also already said that Ken Levine conceived Thief.

**********************
"I've been saying from the very beginning that Warren Spector was the main person behind Deus Ex"
Well that’s not all you been saying but, you have been very general at some points claiming he does everything, all I have been trying to do is be accurate with his positions at different companies on different games.

As I mentioned he was project/studio director oversight for Deus Ex , obviously the Lead Programmer Chris Norden and the 5 designers Marshall Andrews, Ricardo Bare, Monte Martinez, Steve Powers, Robert White not to mention John Romero whom chose to hire Warren to run the studio here in Austin to giving him the talented people whom created the game under Warren's directorship, that's whom and how I give credit as accurately as possible.
I would mention Harvey but believe (maybe incorrectly) he was responsible for much of what held Deus Ex back in his position as Lead Designer.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/deus-ex/credits.
*END QUOTE

So I tried to claim he did everything huh? This time I'm going to quote myself.

"Yes, obviously there was an entire team that worked on the game, just like every other modern game ever made, but he ran that team and oversaw everything they did. Not to mention that he conceived the game to begin with. If you had to label one person as the "creator" then it would be Warren Spector"

Then I said……

"If there was another human being who was more responsible for the creation of Deus Ex then why don't you name him\her?"

I notice you didn't even respond to that question. Yes, you managed to name a few people who contributed on his team, but no one nearly as responsible for the creation of that game as him.

That would be like me naming some people who worked on Ultima and claiming that Richard Garriot wasn't the creator.


***************************
You are more than welcome to post any links you would like, if you have some info you want to share, certainly I enjoy learning factual information especially about games I care about.
**************************


The above link I posted should be more than enough.






Ah, what the hell…..why not?



http://www.gameslice.com/features/spector/index2.shtml

http://www.computerandvideogames.com…19802&skip=yes

http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/sp…sps2&pagenum=1

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/22/de…bute-via-steam

http://www.avault.com/reviews/review…sp?game=deusex

http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=91542

http://pc.ign.com/articles/135/135304p1.html
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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Bioshock - Official Trailer #2 @ Gamespot
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