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April 8th, 2010, 06:31
Peter, I'd actually prefer it if you didn't play all the quests ahead of the group. I think it's more fun to discover an area together rather than one person directing the group where to go because they have already played it. If you have played it before, then really you should keep quiet so that the rest of us can experience it fully ourselves, just as you had the opportunity to do so when you first played it. I'm only taking my chars through quests that we have already done; that way, I can fill in with whatever char type is needed. Also, some quests can play slightly differently depending on which character type you use. I think you might enjoy getting out of your comfort zone by creating a character you haven't played before and experiencing things in a different way. I certainly play my rogue far differently than I do my bard and find that the play experience is also quite different.

T, sorry to hear you're not well; is it related to your other 'temporary' condition, or just some passing illness? Hope you make it this week and hope you've finally got Skype working properly.

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April 8th, 2010, 06:45
To be honest, I don't think any of us should be telling anyone else what to play. I've played quite a bit that the group has not yet, mostly with my Paladin. Sorry but that is getting a bit forward to me. I bought some stuff to play, just so I can see if it's worthwhile. If I think not, I can give a recommendation. Even if it's free content, one of us can give a heads up on whether it's fun/not fun, or if it's worth the effort to run.

I can see not leading the party by the nose, since it is more fun to discover things and work out solutions as a group, but not playing on our own time is another thing entirely. Push come to shove the XP penalty isn't such a big deal, or we can try to put some time in to get everyone to 5, so that there isn't one.

In fact, anyone wants to level up to 5, let me know, and I'll bring my FvS to lend a hand. That takes care of the XP penalty, at least until Peter gets his toons to level 8. Then we get ours to level 6, and life goes on. Problems solved. Except my utter lack of cookies at this time. I am accepting donations. I prefer Oreos if not fresh baked.

T, hope you get to feeling better. Health first, then DDO. They'll be other Fridays.

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April 8th, 2010, 08:40
Hey, please don't misunderstand me, I don't have a problem with people trying out quests, etc. What I don't like is being directed by someone who has played it, unless I'm stuck. If a series of quests suck, I'd rather be told before I get them!!

Found a free fairly short quest today for level 4- Rest for the Restless. Would be a breeze for a cleric/FvS as everything you meet is undead. Only hitch is for one lever puzzle you need 2 people, but there is a workaround for single play. Finished it with my level 4 Bard who has self heal. Wouldn't try it solo with wiz/sorc if no heal; you get swarmed by skellies at times.

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April 8th, 2010, 12:54
It's not like I'm talking a lot about what to do on the quests. I'm too old to remember the details, especially the map layout. What I do remember is the threat level in the quest (trap heavy, type of boss monster etc.). That means we can prepare better and not be wiped out easily. The worst that happens is when we play in our 2 hour session and spend most of the time moving back and forth to the quests because we die all the time and must respawn.

The only quest lately we've played that I have played before is the Catacombs series. Since some of the later monsters are wraiths that you can't hit unless you have ghost touch weapons then it's good to know this in advance so we make sure we have at least one such weapon. Ghost touch weapons are needed in several quests (like the Delara's tomb series). As a matter of fact you should keep all weapons with special abilities since they're quite rare and you need them in some quests. E. g. blessed, good or holy weapons are needed against ghostly skeletons and some other monsters in Delara's tomb.

This is not a complete spoiler because the type of monster to expect is shown in the login screen to the quest. E. g. a wraith is shown in one of the catacombs quest logins. Most info about monster abilities can be found in standard DnD, but DDO has made some variations that we have to learn the hard way (like ghost touch weapons needed for wraiths and spectres).

I've played in some (not too many) PuG's and it's very normal there that the experienced player (one who has been in the dungeon before) gives some general ideas about what to expect inside. Is the dungeon trap heavy, do you require specific skills or items, what kind of tough monsters you can expect etc. This is often done before we enter the dungeon so people can get what they miss. The experienced player is the one inviting to the group and he knows which classes to look for and invite. So in most PuG games you have others who know the dungeon when you enter for the first time. I think that's fine because then I have a lesser risk of dying there. E. g. if the quest is trap heavy and I'm moving in the front then the group leader tells me that this will get me killed unless I'm careful, just like a particular rogue in our guild usually tells me.

Besides having some info ahead of time I see that many players rush in the dungeon and trigger traps that kill them etc. Level 5-7 quests often have traps on the chests or plot items. Some are really nasty like a gate falling down close to the chest and spawning lots of monsters when the quest is open. Then you have to fight all the monsters alone and you will probably die.

I've done my share of dying in DDO and it's not particularly fun, especially when the entire group is killed and we need to keep a PC inside while the others respawn and re-enter. When you only have 2 hours to play you want to accomplish something (like solving at least one quest). So having wipe outs is not fun at all, especially when they could have been avoided with a little more knowledge about the particular quest. E. g. the proof is on the poison quest is a particularly nasty one that we died several times trying to solve. Our group gave up on it, but I managed to solve it in a PuG with an experienced group leader who had been in there before. Timed dungeons are also frustrating unless we're well prepared and know what to do.

I also remember having played quests that a certain sorcerer had played before and we were told what to expect and where to go. That's normal and it means we use our time more efficiently when we play.

What's not fun is to rush through the dungeon just killing everyone in sight because you know you can do it. That means sorcerers and rogues become useless. All characters should have a chance to shine, like the rogue looking for traps etc. This behavior is typical when you repeat a quest just to get some extra XP because you know the layout and can play on instinct. But we play so seldom so we don't repeat quests. If we do it's because we play with our alternate character.

The Catacombs is a bit special for us because it contains of maybe 7 parts or so. What has happened is that our main characters get to chapter 3 and then a new character arrives who hasn't done chapter 1-2. This means our main characters must dump the quest advancement and restart the quest. Then it's quite normal to rush through chapter 1-2 to get everyone up to chapter 3. We were intended to play chapter 3 so I don't think that's wrong. But this is typical for guild play when we don't have time to finish all chapters in one go. Getting out of sync in quests with chapters is quite frustrating. So it might be that you remember these rushed sessions of chapter 1-2 of the catacombs and don't like that. But we've only played the last chapters once in the guild.

The quests I've played with PuG's are quests I haven't played at all with you, like Delara's tomb. You can get 10-15k XP from that series and you can do it in maybe 3-4 hours. The end loot is excellent too.

We've played Catacombs, Tangleroot Gorge and Shan-To-Kor the last months. Neither of these quests have I played with PuG's. I've done Shan-To-Kor with you and played Tangleroot and catacombs solo with my paladin. My cleric is doing these quests with you. I tried to do catacombs solo with the cleric, but died and had no chance to complete it. But it was a long time ago so I don't remember the detail about these quests. I think I was only level 5 when I tried to do them solo.

So I don't think it's a habit in our group to tell others what to do just because some of us have played the quest before. We're all too old to remember all quests anyway and most of us are too lazy to read the quest hints at wikipedia. Getting general info about a quest is not bad because that allows us to prepare for the quest to avoid wipe outs. Playing DDO is fun as long as you avoid having the entire group being wiped out in the dungeon. Many of the level 5-7 quests are potential wipe out quests so you have to know something about what to expect to avoid it. E. g. some of them are very trap heavy, some require you have a special character type or item. Wouldn't it be silly to not be able to solve a quest because we didn't have a rogue or a ghost touch weapon? Having spent 2 hours of our precious playing time just to leave the quest with no XP and a future XP penalty for re-entry is not what I think is fun.

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April 8th, 2010, 13:07
Is there a way to see which quest modules you've purchased? I think it could be a good idea for each one of us to post which modules we have so we can plan ahead and find new quests we know everyone can play. The problem with DDO is that once you have bought a quest you can't distinguish it from the free ones. Unpurchased quests are red, but available ones are yellow. So I can think a quest is free when you actually have to buy it.

By having such a list we could give hints when certain quests that not everyone has are on a sale. Maybe some of us could get visitor passes to the ones who miss a specific quest etc.? But I won't get visitor passes unless I know someone will need it. Right now I have no idea which quests packages we all have and which would exclude some of us. With maybe a few others coming to play we have to think about that. Also remember that a group can max be 6 people in DDO. So if we get more than 6 people joining on a Friday night we can split in 2 groups and play 2 different things. That won't happen right now, but can soon if we recruit more people. Then we can e. g. have 2 groups (one level 5-7 and one level 3-5) and you decide which one you want to be invited to.

I miss the times from NWN when we gave information up front on the forum about which quest to play on the upcoming Friday session. Maybe it's a good idea to do that again? Then people can prepare and make sure they're in the area of the quest when we login instead of spending 20 minutes in real time getting to the right place and sell junk before the quest.

We can have a contingency plan for quests so we write something like this:

Friday session 09.04.2010: Quests in the Marketplace area.
1. Catacombs from chapter 3 if regulars who have played chapter 1-2 show up
2. Proof is in the poison if rogue, sorcerer and fighter in playing group
3. Shan-To-Kor otherwise

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April 8th, 2010, 13:14
Here is a list of all the Adventure packs:
Code:
Adventure Pack **	Levels **	Turbine Points **
The Catacombs	        03 to 04	250
The Seal of Shan-To-Kor	03 to 05	250
Tangleroot Gorge	03 to 07	550
The Sharn Syndicate	04              350
Three-Barrel Cove	04 to 07	650
The Necropolis Part 1	05 to 06	250
Delera's Tomb	        05 to 11	750
Sentinels of Stormreach	06 to 08	450
Sorrowdusk Isle      	06 to 10	450
Devil Assault	        06 to 16	150
The Necropolis Part 2	08 to 09	350
The Ruins of Threnal	08 to 10	550
The Vault of Night	08 to 10	750
The Restless Isles	10            	550
Demon Sands	        10 to 12	850
The Necropolis Part 3	11 to 12	350
Ruins of Gianthold	13 to 14	950
The Necropolis Part 4	14 to 17	850
The Vale of Twilight	16 to 17	650
The Reaver's Reach	17	        350
The Path of Inspiration	17 to 19	450
The Dreaming Dark	18 to 20	450
The Devils of Shavarath	19 to 20	650

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Last edited by Peter Stauffenberg; April 8th, 2010 at 13:33.
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April 8th, 2010, 13:35
I have the following Adventure packs:
Code:
Adventure Pack **	Levels **	Status**
The Catacombs	        03 to 04	Completed
The Seal of Shan-To-Kor	03 to 05	Played part of (guild and solo)
Tangleroot Gorge	03 to 07	In progress with one quest (guild play)
The Sharn Syndicate	04              Completed
Three-Barrel Cove	04 to 07	Only entered, but not played quests there
The Necropolis Part 1	05 to 06	Not played
Delera's Tomb	        05 to 11	Played first story only (PuG)
Sorrowdusk Isle         06 to 10	Not played

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April 8th, 2010, 14:14
Did we finish Tangleroot? I didn't think we had and I know we haven't finished STK either. I don't have Delera or Necro. There are also a lot of free house quests we can do, but I don't know much about them. As a rogue and sorc, I have felt a little useless at times when people rush ahead and kill everything, or don't wait for traps to be disabled. I like playing as a GROUP. Having an idea about what to expect in a quest is good, but maybe I just felt totally frustrated with Catacombs, good as it actually is.

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April 8th, 2010, 14:52
We did NOT finish Tangleroot. We are in chapter 4 or 5 I think. There are 7 chapters of the quest we're doing there. So it would be a good idea to continue from that one so time. There are other quests in the Tangleroot Gorge area we haven't completed either, like the rare encounters. I think we moved back to the Marketplace because one of the regulars didn't show up and we decided to play something else from start.

I don't think we've finished STK either so I suggest we try to complete STK and Tangleroot before trying something else. Catacombs are completed at least with one set of characters.

I think we could use the forum to arrange adhoc gaming sessions for alternate characters and new players. e. g. Temptress and Joe have some low level characters that have not been in the catacombs and some other places. So it's definitely possible to play with them so they get the XP for the quests.

Our biggest problem is that we don't know who will show up on Fridays and when we're in the middle of a quest series we try to put that one on hold until all regulars show up. I think either Joe or CM have been missing the last 3-4 sessions and that's probably the reason we haven't continued Tangleroot. I think we should do that because the end loot is quite good (+2 stat items and +3 weapons / armor).

I'm so old so I have forgotten who played in Tangleroot. I had my cleric in the group and I think we had Azraels paladin. Did Joe have a rogue, you a sorcerer and CM a fighter?

Look here for info about Tangleroot Gorge:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Tangleroot_G…arseman#Quests

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April 8th, 2010, 14:58
Catacombs was special because we had to restart the quest several times to get new characters into the group. One reason was because some of you decided to play with other characters (you a rogue instead of the sorcerer and Joe the monk instead of the rogue). That meant we've played chapter 1-2 many times and that IS frustrating for all of us. I can understand the desire to rush through these 2 chapters to progress the story we don't know yet. But that was a result of bringing new characters to the playing session instead of completing with the ones we already had.

Each time you decide to restart a quest series you know you have to replay parts you've already done before. Should we then play these parts again slowly and spend most of our 2 hours on that or should we rush through and continue on the next part that we were supposed to if we hadn't got a new character popping in?

I think it's fine to replay some chapters to get a new person into the playing group so I think that's more important than having to replay chapters I've already played before.

You can be rest assured that your rogue will be very much appreciated when we enter trap heavy dungeons or we are in an area we don't know from memory. The traps become more and more deadly with increased level so even my paladin has respect for these traps now.

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April 8th, 2010, 19:02
STK was different, because I think CM didn't actually have that one. So if we're going anywhere, Tangleroot might be best, since I think everyone has that. Of course, T may not have any of them, so if she shows we have to plan around that. Unless someone has the points for a guest pass.

I think it was my Paladin, but I'm not sure. I'll have to load into DDO and check.

I never could find the workaround on Rest for the Restless, so I didn't pull that one until later when in a pug. The other one that requires two players is in 3 Barrel Cove, which I think most of the group hasn't touched yet.

Other relatively easy ones are in there as well; my Paladin soloed most of that house. Pretty good end loot as well.

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April 9th, 2010, 01:01
Jo didn't have STK, so I gave her a guest pass. I don't remember who I used anymore. My new level 5 Wiz has the haste spell which really helps out the entire group as well as having my favourite Fireball. I know he hasn't played any of STK, or Tangleroot though.

On another note, with having 4 chars now, I have found getting a shared bank invaluable. I hesitated a LONG time cause it's not cheap, but after using it to exchange and save equipment, I feel it's well worth it. I even have managed to save a bunch of useful stuff for Az's WF and some decent Shuri's for Jo's Monk.

PS, compared to me (and Cm) you're not even close to being OLD Peter!!

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April 9th, 2010, 02:01
Who did you play with in Tangleroot Gorge?

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April 9th, 2010, 03:18
I've found, since getting both Monk and WF, that useful stuff for them doesn't drop even on the others. Before, I was auctioning +3 Kamas and dumping Repair Mod pots all the time. Now? I'm lucky to find any repair pots, and my Monk is still on a pair of +1 Kamas (I never use them, but still…)

However, I have been finding spell scrolls. None lately that I haven't already sent to Corwin's Wiz's way, but still…

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April 9th, 2010, 09:14
I think I used my Sorc for the first part of TG, but the Wiz has more effective level 3 spells and only 100 fewer MP's. I could bring either, but I think the Haste is supposed to be really helpful!!

Az, got some repair pots for you and a repair staff too.

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April 9th, 2010, 11:21
Does it mean your wizard will need to play chapter 1-4 to get into the Tangleroot Gorge quest? Does it mean we have to restart? It's possible if we have other characters that haven't been everywhere there. My cleric can easily restart the quests. I don't remember so much of the quest chapters anymore.

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April 9th, 2010, 11:47
Well, it all depends who shows up and with which Chars. It only takes a couple of minutes to swap chars, so we can decide at the time. I've forgotten what we did.

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April 9th, 2010, 12:02
Should we the head for Tangleroot for this evening's playing session. You enter via house Phiarlan.

I don't mind resetting my quest with the cleric. This means we can play with anyone who shows up. We have a cleric (but I can bring my paladin if you don't have a fighter in the group). If you bring a wiz or sorc then we have a spellcaster. Then we need a rogue and a melee fighter (fighter, monk, paladin or similar).

I think we can play the first few chapters on hard or maybe even elite to get extra XP, especially if both I and Azraelck bring our level 7 characters. You gain extra favour by playing on hard or elite.

Have you heard from CM lately so we know she might join us this time?

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April 9th, 2010, 12:18
I think Cm will be there. I agree playing on Hard, followed later by Elite is the way to go with every quest. I think I read somewhere that the way to maximise XP. favor, etc was actually to play each quest twice on hard and then on elite. Apparently each is a level above the other, but elite monsters are much tougher and have special abilities such as certain spell immunities or high resistance!!

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April 9th, 2010, 15:23
On elite the traps are MUCH deadlier so we have to have a rogue to disarm them first. THE way to let your rogue shine.

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