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Default The Totally NEW Team Corwin Thread

July 4th, 2010, 04:08
No, I've had it drop on Normal, actually more often though that's probably because most my characters don't run beyond normal on any given quest, unless it's with the guild. Only Rachail and Fireflash have ran it on elite.

I finally ran into one of the new quests. I can safely recommend the pack, just off this one quest. It's a long one, but it's not all bashing things all upside the head (though there's plenty of that!). You still can't get the series quest as it's bugged, but you can do the individual ones. It's level 5, but pretty challenging; Ijii could not pull it. Since I have no other classes at level, I can't see how well they can do it.

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July 4th, 2010, 05:40
Which new quest was that?

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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July 4th, 2010, 16:38
Mammoth Valley, which I actually wiped in. But then, a solo Bard isn't quite the best for tough quests, particularly a Spellsinger build instead of a Warchanter.

I also ran The Snitch, to completion, which was terribly fun.

The bug is that if you talked to the coin lord for the Crime Syndicate quest series (Sharn) in the marketplace, even if you never finished it, you cannot get the series from Rouge. This puts me in the position of having only my Wizard able to get the series, or my mule. You can still do the individual quests though.

I'm going to head in and grab the main line with my Wizard, then so I can share it with the others in the guild. Who can then share it with the rest of my characters. Hopefully this bug will be fixed soon.

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July 5th, 2010, 00:36
Hmmm….I've done Sharn with every char. What a stupid bug. I would think that Sharn has been done by at least 90% of the DDO players.

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July 5th, 2010, 13:22
Most likely so. unless this quest series gives better theres probably not any better weapons at that level. fireflash and ijii both are using nicked weapons from sharn in fact.

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July 10th, 2010, 16:20
I would like to share some news with the rest of the gaming world here at The Watch. Our own Peter has developed a new strategy that could change the way games are played by all of us. It may even change developer content in the future.

As we were being royally bitten by a large horde of evil, flame-throwing, spell-slinging bugbears and other such creatures of the deep, our group slowly dwindled in number. The only sign we left behind was the soul stone of life.

Peter, (who knew the route we should have taken and runs so darn fast we can't keep up or even see how he got there) is now standing looking down on our dead group and yells to us. "People………let me propose this."

The summation of that speech and the point of my story here, was for the select one or two who could jump the highest to re-spawn and gather at the entrance. The rest of us less able members should re-spawn, then come stand in the "right place" and die there. This would allow our speedy partners to find our soul stones quickly and just carry us up past this area of pain. Peter stressed the point we had to die in the "right place" this time, not where we died the first time out.

(Like I had a choice the first time?)

The funny part is that this worked…………..or should I say the sad part?

We again soon ran into problems, and Peter now feels we are better off,( some of us at least……I didn't say Corwin………and you know Peter is never the one…), to be dead and let the few survivers carry their souls in a small dark inventory bag. (No way!)

We did all agree, except one person who will not be named, that if a certain player continues to fall and die we will use the dead-carry approach and just drag him past any areas that require jumping, climbing, walking on small ledges, swimming, or any other game action besides standing in one place really.

So, if you see this option in years to come you can say you know the ones who started that %&$%$ and messed up gaming for everyone.

Bart and Corwin should just admit that when it gets down to it, I will have the final say.
Last edited by Cm; July 10th, 2010 at 16:31.
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July 11th, 2010, 20:05
My proposal is that Corwin swap in Jump (a level 1 spell, which at this point will have minimal effect on his casting habits), which at this point should be giving him +20 to Jump, as well as cast Featherfall, before running into such situations. This might give him the extra leeway he needs to finish out certain areas. He can cast an extended version, which lasts some 14 minutes on my Sorcerer.

One issue is the squishiness of some players' character. My sorcerer, at level 7, has over 100hp. Someone else said there's, at the same level, has 60. There is a slight problem there. My Bard and Cleric also have over 100hp. Fireflash around 150, and Rachail over 200.

While we cannot, at this point, reroll and start from scratch without giving up far too much time and effort, we do need a evaluation on how we manage things. For one, we should all be wearing the best + CON items, Fortification items, and False Life items we can get our grubby hands on. My Sorc wears a +3 CON Belt, a Light Fort item, and a Lesser False Life item.

More CON equals more hp (and Fortitude saves). Fortification reduces critical hits (or eliminates them, with heavy fort). False Life gives extra hp.

We should also aim for a good resistance item, which gives a bonus to saves. Most of my characters have a +2 Resistance to all saving throws item. Casters should have the best wizardry or of power item we can grab.

We also need to look at how things stack. Armor bonuses don't stack. Mage Armor gives an Armor bonus. So if you have a Black Widow's Bracers (end reward from Water Works), Mage Armor has no effect on you. It has no effect on anyone wearing normal armor either (I noted someone was buffing Fireflash with Mage Armor the other night). Shield, on the other hand, gives a +4 Shield bonus to AC, which stacks with armor. Shield of Faith gives a deflection bonus to ac, Barkskin a Natural bonus to ac. Haste gives a Dodge bonus to ac. Those stack with normal armor.

Enhancement bonuses to stats do not stack either. My Paladin and Ranger both carry +3 STR items, so those Bull's Strengths give me a bonus of exactly 1. Not worth the cost to cast them. Melee characters should carry +STR items as high as they can get. That 15sp (25 with extend) would be better served with a Command/Greater Command, Soundburst, Web, Charm/Hold Person/Monster, or other such spells.

For these easy-to-get +3 items, run Tangleroot. It's easy to solo; I've ran it on normal with my Bard and Sorcerer both level 6. There's a Wizardry II end reward, +3 STR, DEX, or CON items, and even a decent ring for a Cleric IIRC. +2 WIS, and Nullification, though that's useless.

Crowd Control: we need it. Held monsters are automatically critical hit. They also do no damage to us. Charmed monsters can draw fire away from us, and maybe do a little damage. I've just swapped a spell on my Sorc for Web today, and once I hit level 8, will swap for Charm Person most likely. Hitting a group with Greater Command, then dropping a Firewall on top of them means they cook while we deal with the ones that made it through.

In Tear, the problem was we got separated, several fell below, and rather than run ahead to get away from the respawning mobs, they tried to fight back up to the waterfall. Then those who made it tried to rescue those who fell, except Peter, who stood on a ledge and laughed at the rest of us.

In short, we're wasting a lot of sp on buffs we really don't need. In quests where we are getting held, Freedom of Movement is more important than Bull's Strength. Especially a Bull's Strength that only gives +1 to STR. Every caster that can cast it should have Resist Energy loaded, so to spread the sp burden around the party rather than on the Cleric. Arcanes should load Blur, and hand that out to help mitigate damage.

Short term buffs, like Prayer, Recitation, or Haste, should be saved for tough fights, not hit at the beginning where we'll burn half of the duration just walking.

In the news: The Radiant Servant's aura is getting nerfed. It will now be gained at level 12, with RSII, instead of at RSI. It also will not be effected by Extend Spell. On the other hand, Clerics will be able to fight with the aura up, and it will no longer stop entirely, and swapping equipment no longer changes the strength of the aura randomly.

In place of the aura will be the Positive Energy Burst, which is somewhat like a mass CLW, but does 1d8/level damage to undead. So when turning doesn't work, this will tear them apart. Not much use for healing, but it's not a horrible nerf at least. Makes Radiant Servant not particularly worth taking until you get RSII. But, I won't bother respeccing.

They're also fixing the bug with the new House P quest chain at least.

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July 11th, 2010, 20:43
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
In Tear, the problem was we got separated, several fell below, and rather than run ahead to get away from the respawning mobs, they tried to fight back up to the waterfall. Then those who made it tried to rescue those who fell, except Peter, who stood on a ledge and laughed at the rest of us.
While I agree with the basic premise, you're playing both sides of the fence. Seperation = bad. Trying to get back together = bad. Kinda gotta make up yer mind.

Kinda disappointing not to get at least a little credit for trying to make some lemonade out of the lemons. Given that y'all were going to come out of the golem fight in tatters, I figured there might be some value to Sherielle and I clearing out (or trying to, as it worked out) the room you were going to limp into. Besides, nobody told us to run ahead. Y'all couldn't even clearly communicate where the hell I was supposed to jump to at the waterfall (which I promptly managed to bungle somehow, anyway), so I can't really be expected to mindread the next action necessary on a quest I've never run.

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July 11th, 2010, 21:02
You can't clear that room. The mobs respawn constantly. In that area, trying to get back up while separated is suicide. Soloing that quest, and getting caught in that room, is a death sentence. I know from experience. I stated it before entering.

Had Peter dropped down with us, we probably could have regrouped and escaped without more than a couple of deaths, if that many. The fact is, only part of us tried to regroup. It's a failure on all of our parts, not just a few. Even once we mostly got down in the bottom, I was in one area, you were in another, CM in another, and no one was using crowd control to try to mitigate damage. That was on my more than anyone else, save Peter, since I was a Bard with several CC spells at my fingertips.

I also assumed everyone was behind us, as indicated by the map. You actually made the jump pretty much, from what I recall. Corwin had found the area we were jumping in as well. And oddly made it across. I think CM went down to save Corwin that first time, and I'm not sure what happened with Sherille.

The ideal is to stay together in all instances where we can (the exceptions being in places such as Necropolis or Deleras 2 where we have to split up). In that case, it probably would have been better if all of us had just dropped down and ran to the door.

I should have communicated better, certainly, since I'm the most familiar with ToD. I've run it several times, and would run it again in a heartbeat. I'm more used to letting Peter lead, since he's the Paladin-at-heart, and I'm more the demented Sorcerer who sits in the back and sets things on fire in my spare time and makes inappropriate comments.

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July 11th, 2010, 21:18
Personally, while not liking the whole dead thing, I still thought it was funny in hind sight. Peter keeps saying come up here………where is here????…..we jump and miss and fall into that pit of unending death spawns…….everyone is yelling……"how the hell did you get up there and where is there?………
The game of champions……..:roflmao: it was fun, and when all is said that is what we hook up to do….laugh at each other and ourselves..

Bart and Corwin should just admit that when it gets down to it, I will have the final say.
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July 11th, 2010, 21:36
I didn't mind, all things considered. If nothing else, we managed some fairly good teamwork picking up the pieces. I'll admit to enjoying the occasional pointless massacre (duh, barbarian here!), but I have the most fun when we're forced to work together to get around a problem or two.

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July 11th, 2010, 23:55
Hey, during the process of updating my character development documents (yeah, I've gone round the bend), I found a level 1 quest via DDOWiki that I had somehow never noticed, "Hall of the Dragonmark".

I've seen the dragonmark feats on the character creator, and overall they didn't really impress me. However…and where this all ties in…the mark for halflings that allows mana-free healing spells looks rather interesting for my soon-to-be-built healbot.

Thoughts?

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July 12th, 2010, 01:15
I actually have some CC spells with both my casters, yet rarely get the opportunity to use them. Often that is because others run ahead to take on the mobs while I try to hang back and use ranged spells. I could give people a ring of Hold, or a ring of hypnotism if tanks want to take the time to UMD CC before engaging.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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July 12th, 2010, 11:41
re: Halfling Dragonmarks - Clerics really lack the feats to take these. You'll want Extend, Empower Healing, Maximize, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Quicken, and Heighten. I'm actually dumping on spell pen feat just to have Augment Summoning.

You can take Empower instead of Empower Healing, as it affects your damage spells like Blade Barrier. It costs more, and with Radiant Servant isn't as effective, on healing spells. Empower Healing also works on the Heal and Mass Heal spells, while Empower only works on the Cure/Mass Cure spells.

The best thing about that quest is that you get a free feat respec out of it. As changing feats in game is expensive, this is nice.

Items with CC spells aren't very worthwhile since they're generally cast at a low caster level, without any stat mod to boost the spell DC. Even wands and scrolls have that problem.

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July 12th, 2010, 16:02
With hordes of monsters waiting at the bottom my cleric felt he would die too if he jumped down there to help you. I tried to raise some of you from the ledge, but since I only have raise dead and not resurrection it meant you got back alive with a few hitpoints only. Since you got aggro and moved away you moved too far away from my heals.

I think the biggest problem was that you in the beginning didn't see the platforms we had to jump to in order to reach the waterfall. It's also not a given that you had to jump across the waterfall before trying to jump on top of it. After you die everything is black so you can't see. Down at the bottom you can't even see the others who made it.

One problem was that the spawning monsters were at the entrance to the area so it was not possible to show the way to the platforms without having to fight constantly.

In hindsight it would have been better to explain all first and make sure everyone had feather fall on. Even my cleric fell a few times before I put on the feather fall item. At least I knew the monsters respawned so I moved quickly to the top. At the ledge before the waterfall the monsters couldn't stay in groups so only the archers could hit us there. That would have been the best place to stay to give instructions.

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July 12th, 2010, 16:21
If doing Tear of Dhakaan seemed tough we had an even worse time with Taming the Flames yesterday. CM (cleric), Joe (wizard), Tom (barbarian), Corwin (rogue) and me (paladin) did the quest on hard. It's the one with lots of mephits, earth and fire elementals.

The quest begun quite well since Tom's barbarian and my paladin could take out each fire elemental. The problems begun with the earth elementals who used grab to hold us. It happened almost at the same time as we began to run out of mana. Opening up the rest shrine is rather hard and will happen late in the quest. So we had to rely upon potions etc.

Some people died and since we had no raise dead cleric it meant they had to respawn. Turbine has changed the map system so the map you explored is black again when you re-enter. That means Joe and Corwin moved in the wrong direction and met new monsters that killed them instantly. The elementals respawn constantly so it's really dangerous to stay in one place waiting.

We got to other areas with platforms we had to jump and if we failed we fell down to the lava pit. Even worse would be more fire elementals spawning. So our group was hit by a similar problem as with the Tear of Dhakaan, i. e. being faced with people failing the jumps. For one weird reason it seemed that Corwin made the jumps well while Joe fell down mostly. Maybe because Corwin played a rogue? So failing jumps is NOT only because of not timing the jumps properly, but also because of the skill level in jump. I'm sure Joe's wizard didn't have a lot of points in jump. The morale is to collect jump enhancing items and put them on at the right moment. Feather fall items would be nice to put on too.

After we finally got together we had a really nasty lava area with a chest at the bottom. In the chest was the key that would open the door that would allow us to use the rest shrine. We had learnt the lesson from before so we only sent the barbarian and paladin down. But again we were met with problems. The spiral ledge down to the chest was filled with fire elementals. More elementals were placed at platforms we couldn't reach. They all cast fireballs on us. Trying to fight them is futile because when you kill some others would respawn and start attacking too. So you can't kill them faster than they respawn.

With fire resistance we could absorb most of the damage, but in order to open a chest you need to not be hit for about 5 seconds or the opening will be interrupted. Tom's barbarian died first because he moved past a fire pillar that spawned 2 more fire elementals at the time he got past. The cleric could not heal him because she would have died too if she moved down the spiral ramp towards the chest. So my paladin was alone facing 10 fire elementals and trying to open the chest. I died a few times too in the attempt, but used siberys cakes to be raised. Finally I was lucky and the chest opened and I got the key. I was killed again trying to escape, but another cake made it possible to get out.

The rest of the quest was easy. I made a count after the quest and realized I had drunk 50 healing potions, 20 mana potions, 3 siberys cakes, 3 fire resist potions. I can only imagine what the others had been using.

Then I begun to realize the hideous plan Turbine has with this quest (and the ones like Proof is in the Poison, Tear of Dhakaan etc.). They deliberately make the quest VERY HARD with respawning mobs at the worst places. The purpose is to make people die and have to rely upon stuff they have to buy from the DDO store to finish. They rely upon they players mentality that they don't want to abandon a quest when they have suffered so much. So when we finally beat the quest and got 10 favor each in house K plus crappy end loot I could virtually see the Turbine guy with $$ signs in his eyes smiling. He said to himself: "Another group successfully fooled, Mission accomplished. I should ask for a raise for designing this profitable dungeon".

I remember the saying. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". So Turbine with never be able to fool me into playing Taming the Flames again.

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July 12th, 2010, 17:45
People might wonder why we're playing quests that give us so much trouble. One reason is that we need the favor (now in house Kundarak) to get upgraded to level 1 (75 favor). The house K one is particularly important because we can then buy an extra personal bank slot to store our loot. That's quite important since my high level cleric and paladin are giving the guildies so many nice items they can't use yet.

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July 12th, 2010, 18:43
We've run Tame twice now, and both times it went very poorly for us. I did a little pondering on this last night, also taking into account Peter's mention that he and Azraelck had knocked it out with little trouble earlier. It just didn't really make much sense.

My conclusion is that the quest (which, as Peter says, is without question brutally designed) is actually better suited to a small "strike force" than an actual party. While you sacrifice some abilities (disable trap, or arcane casting, or aggro sponging, or whatever) with an incomplete party, it's easier to coordinate actions and it requires smaller "windows" to hunker down and catch a breath.

One thing we hit more than once was the squishies getting attacked from behind. It was a no-win situation for them, really—they had to stay back in order to let Peter and I clear the way, but they couldn't stay back because they would be too close to a respawn point. With a smaller party, there's less "spread" needed, so the squishies are better able to remain in that small "safe window" between the front line and the respawning critters to the rear.

Similarly, with a larger party, it takes quite a while to hand out all the buffs. By the time our faithful buffer pumped out 5 copies of resist fire, protect fire, and resist cold, we'd lost 2 minutes of buff. That's in no way an indictment of our casters; it just takes a lot of time to go thru all those spells and make sure each one "took" on every player. With the quest designed to make mana extremely hard to come by, 2 lost minutes actually matters. Plus, with a quest that should take somewhere around an hour to tackle, adding up all those 2 minutes amounts to a complete extra round of casting. Bounce that against mana shortage, and it's a recipe for flowing profanity.

I think I'm up to 58 favor with House K now, so there's some reward for the immense amount of frustration we endured. I suppose the truest test of the adventure, though, is that I'd actually like to run it again with a smaller squad of folks that are gluttons for punishment, just to see how it worked out. But not for a few weeks…

People…I propose that Peter should not pick the quest for a couple weeks. He is on suspension *Corwin mentions his inventory is full again* People…until he remembers that he's saddled *barbarian anticipates the instructions and runs off, unfortunately in the wrong direction* with a party of *yawn* mere mortals, or until such time *CM says the party, as usual, isn't staying together* as he starts his instructions with "Shut up, stay put, and listen, you incompetent bastards!"

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July 12th, 2010, 22:59
I think what you write is actually true. Taming the flames is better suited to two melee characters with fire resistance cooperating than a full party. This is actually true with many quests unless we have a strategy. If the fighters have to look after the squishies all the time then it's hard to deal with the enemies.

This is one reason why it's so important for at least one of the fighters to have the intimidate skill. The mobs will usually go after the PC doing the most damage. That's often the wizars / sorcerer due to wall of fire / ice storm etc. The cleric can get aggro too when using blade barrier, holy smite etc. If the fighter uses intimidate before the battle and gets a good hit against one of the monsters then he might get aggro and keep it despite the casters doing a lot of damage.

I think we get into trouble if we fight in open areas with the caster casting wall of fire. Then the caster will get initial aggro and the monsters will go straight for the caster. Usually the cleric is there too and will get aggro when the caster is dead.

So in order to counter such situations we need to have a good plan. E. g. we should try to fight in corridors where the fighters can block the way at the wall of fire. Then only monsters spawning behind the group will become a problem.

We completed 3 quests on elite with great success yesterday before we did taming the flames. Then we were working as a group and the casters were protected. Taming the flames is special because the monsters respawn all the time and that means there are no safe spots for the casters to hide. What happened yesterday was that the squishies retreated when the monsters broke through the fighters to attack the wizard. By doing that they ran into spawning monsters and were killed instantly. Then the fighters had to fight 3-4 fire elementals and that can be rather tough.

So the clue to success is to know how the monsters are working and plan accordingly. If we don't have respawning monsters then we should be able to do well. We can do level 5-6 quests on elite, level 7-8 on hard and 9+ on normal. If the quest is flagged as challenging we might have to get down on difficulty level.

The important thing is to learn from the mistakes we make and figure out how to improve out playing style. I think our optimal group will consist of the following characters: Fighter / barbarian, paladin, cleric, wizard / sorcerer, rogue, bard / ranger. We could have another caster instead of the bard / ranger if we need to do a lot of area of effect damage.

I notice a HUGE difference between having 1 melee character in the group vs 2 melee characters. When we have a less than full group (4 or less characters) we often have only one melee. That means the DPS will come from one character and that makes him quite vulnerable. I noticed that when Tom and I cooperated to strike the same monsters they went down quickly and we could move on to the next one. The best strategy in most quests is for all to strike against the same monster and switch to the next one. Each dead monster means less enemy DPS.

I think it's best to take out the support enemies before going after the boss. The boss can usually stand for quite awhile and that means the support monsters can do a lot of damage. The exception is when the boss is a caster. Then he MUST be taken down asap. When I analyze the battlefield I target the enemy casters first, then the enemy healers, then the enemy melee characters unless some characters have special abilities that can wipe a party (like earth elemental grab). So my paladin usually bypasses the enemy melee characters to get to the casters. When they're down the battle is much easier. Sometimes you need to take out the enemy healers first because you're unable to take out the casters fast enough. That happens sometimes on elite when they have more hitpoints.

I don't mind challenging quests. If we have a death or two then it proves we had to do our best to beat the quest. Then the reward feels better when we finally get the XP and loot. What IS frustrating are the situations where we have a good plan and still get wiped. We try again and the wipes continue and continue. That means you run out of options and pure luck will determine if you beat the quest or not. E. g. opening the chest before you die in taming the flames is pure luck. It can probably be done with an invisible rogue, but then you need high enough skills to avoid detection and you need luck with the evasions when you run back to the group. But the frustrating quest is now completed so we can look for more interesting quests.

The only "bad" thing about getting Kundarak favor level 1 with an extra personal bank tab (20 slots) is that I'm pretty sure Corwin will fill up these 20 slots in no time and still complain about a full inventory and no room in the bank.

I guess Corwin will at some time say he can't play because he doesn't have room for more loot and he doesn't want to sell any of the items already in his bank. Then he will rely ask us to store his loot so he can continue playing. You get yet another tab in the personal bank when you get to level 2 favor with house K. So there is still hope for us to have enough room to hold Corwin's loot.

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July 12th, 2010, 23:23
@ Dte: Your patience ( or so be it insanity) at wanting to try that one again is above and beyond. I for one, say you and Peter, you and Don, or any combo there of are free to log in as me, run me around the fires of no return, an get our favor up for the sake of Corwin's newest collection of bits and bobs.

I do agree, that is not really a party based quest. Our skills to help were sorely outweighed by the number of times we needed to be rescued and/or were found dead by the time you got to us.

There must be other quests we can run a few times for the favor…please say there are other quests…if not I will go stand on the corner by my house and solicit donations to buy Corwin and any one else in need of the extra storage space the upgraded bank.
(I have a jar of pennies to make change with Corwin…I could feel you thinking it.)

Bart and Corwin should just admit that when it gets down to it, I will have the final say.
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