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Default Netbook for classic RPGs, at last I bought it. :)

February 25th, 2010, 21:21
I'm in that boat. Why have a desktop if a single laptop can meet all of my needs. Sure I don't have the biggest screen, best sound, or can play the latest games at the highest settings, but it is good enough and I use it for work. Anything beyond that is a luxury that may be nice, but perhaps unnecessarily complicated.
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February 25th, 2010, 21:35
Well, there is one downside that's always kept me lukewarm on the sole-laptop outlook - maintenance and configurability. Ok, maybe two, but theyre both along the same lines…

When people come to me with a desktop pc problem I can fix it, or if they want, upgrade it. The parts that I need can generally be gotten off a shelf if it isnt just loaded w/ proprietary stuff. Desktops can always be worked with, even by people who are not certified technicians. Laptops are not such an open-and-shut case **cymbal crash***

Laptops are a different story, everything's proprietary and they get phased out quick for the newer models. I'll get a two year old laptop to work on and the mfg barely even acknowledges on their site anymore. I'll grant that i'm not the worlds best computer technician, but opening up, testing, and repairing a laptop can really be a pain in the ass. If it can even be done and the parts can be aquired..

Also, if you scrap a desktop, you can salvage parts off of it, and you still have the peripherals. Once a laptop's toast, it's generally a big paperweight. Or a doorstop, whatever your current needs dictate.

That's a big downside for me, like PC games over console - I like to be able to get under the hood and mess around or fix it if i have to.
Last edited by xSamhainx; February 25th, 2010 at 21:54.
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February 25th, 2010, 22:04
True, I just can't carry a desktop with me.
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February 25th, 2010, 22:59
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Hehe, well..

It seems to me you're overthinking these things a lot - but to each his own.
Honestly, in the same way you propose that I am over thinking this issue, you have clearly under thought it maybe? Truly there can be no such thing as thinking about something too much. I mean, within reasonable terms. (Some what vague, I know.)

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm not really trying to do the "right" thing, I'm simply interested in filling this need I have - which includes the ability to game when I'm not at home, if I want to.

Now, I'm not too concerned with the price - as long as there's value for money. If I can afford something, that's the only thing that interests me. So, no, the "point" of a netbook isn't that it's affordable - not to me.
If you aren't trying to do the "right" thing, then maybe your doing the "wrong" thing? Again, my point centers around the fact that netbooks are cheaper and have MUCH better battery life, which means they are far more portable - especially when you factor weight and size.

The entire debate started when someone said they "don't understand why someone else would purchase a netbook." Something along those lines. So it only seems fair and "right" to evaluate such a claim. This evaluation leads to portability, cost, and no desire to run higher end apps/games while on the go.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
It's really quite simple - because I DO intend to use it for gaming, and there's a reason I haven't bought another one - because the 250-400 range netbooks haven't served my needs. But gaming is just one thing, I also want HD streaming for movies, and I want the ability to develop for my project, which includes photoshop and 3D studio. Such things work best with decent power, and XNA (which I'm using for my game) needs a little more horsepower than your average netbook.
This makes the laptop a better choice for you. Since you are going to game, and you want to be able to run the latest and greatest along side intensive art applications, the netbook really isn't a great choice.

However, you could also look at it a different way. If, for instance, you rarely if ever will game when not at home, or do homework/mess with 3D apps away from your desktop, then you're merely spending excessive money on features that you will rarely if ever use.

You'd have to be honest with yourself here. If you honestly think you'll use such features, on the go, frequently, then purchasing a system to allow for that makes sense. However, if you are being paranoid and saying.. "OMG what if I need those features at some point?" then you're probably not evaluating your needs correctly.

Again, if you spend that money on that laptop, and then end up using it away from home for gaming/3D apps only a handful of times in the next few years, you've clearly wasted money. However, if you plan to use it somewhat frequently, then it makes sense.

We can be objective about these things, after all, because if you do most of your work on a desktop at home, then it's reasonable to assume that you could easily do everything at home and that portability is just a minor luxury. In my case it's the opposite, I use my netbook when I'm not at home, and as such, need long battery life(I'm not charging it throughout the day) and ease of portability aka weight/size. I use my netbook frequently for the purpose it was designed for, and not once in the past 6 months have I stopped to question whether I would have liked to play a modern game on it, or run an intensive app. I simply don't do that stuff with any frequency.

I think we're talking about value here, but value isn't always just a subjective thing. It can be weighed objectively too. I would say value lies in the behavior of an individual. Like I said above, if you buy something that has added features, spend excessive money on it, and then never use those features, objectively speaking you've clearly wasted money and the item had no added value over a netbook.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But what I don't get, is why you concern yourself AT ALL with the reasoning other people utilise to make their decisions? I mean, you say "I have no problem with hardcore gamers…." - suggesting you might have a problem with someone who bought it for reasons you don't agree with?
I'm not concerned, I'm merely explaining my rationale for purchasing one. It is yourself that doesn't seem to understand that I was answering someone elses question by trying to elaborately give some good reasons for why they are popular and why they are of good value to a lot of people.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I hope that's just a misunderstanding, because otherwise you're in for a long road with absolutely no gain at the end.
Really? I gain the saved money I didn't spend excessivley on things I don't need. This frees up these funds for other purchases, something you won't be able to do. That is unless you are filthy rich, but then I can understand this conversation meaning less to you, however, funds are a limited resource for most people, and as such, evaluating the use of funds a good thing to do. It's "right" in the sense that it's logical and reasonable to spend money thoughtfully and not wastefully.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
That's a personal choice, though, and maybe it's just because I don't see the fascination with establishing some kind of objective truth when buying things that are essentially luxuries.
I think this is because you haven't thought about it enough. You somehow attach a negative connotation to "over thinking" and being analytical, and decisive in nature. If only we could all nonchalantly spend money without care because we were filthy rich. If you're not rich, you're simply ignorant of this fact.

Again, technology will always improve, and as such, purchasing excessive things now is just a waste of funds that could be used later on to buy items with features of more cost when those features are actually needed and will be used.

When you buy that alienware laptop, for instance, you will get about 2 years of use out of it before you'd probably have to make a similar purchase to be able to play the latest games.(Netbooks don't have this problem as surfing the web, emailing, and online communities don't require higher resources every 2 years(or not by much), though you might replace a battery - you'd probably do this with any portable device though.) So why spend that much money every time you buy a new device when you don't plan on playing new games or using intensive apps on the go? Of course, you plan on playing new games, but the question is how often and how much you'll play them on the go. After all, you could just as easily play/use those games/apps on your home desktop(unless you don't have one) if you didn't need or weren't going to use portability. Hence the value of a netbook.

Just saying.

Edit: Not to mention, netbooks can play the oldie but goodies, no problem.

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February 26th, 2010, 00:21
Originally Posted by Xi View Post
The entire debate started when someone said they "don't understand why someone else would purchase a netbook." Something along those lines. So it only seems fair and "right" to evaluate such a claim. This evaluation leads to portability, cost, and no desire to run higher end apps/games while on the go.

Edit: Not to mention, netbooks can play the oldie but goodies, no problem.
Very true … I have a whole series of articles called 'The Netbook Gamer' at GearDiary that I keep adding to that looks at these very sorts of things

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February 26th, 2010, 00:49
They fewer PCs I need to maintain the happier I am. But I guess some people like lots of gadgets to fidget with…
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February 26th, 2010, 04:28
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
They fewer PCs I need to maintain the happier I am. But I guess some people like lots of gadgets to fidget with…
It's not like I have to lug around my desktop and my netbook at the same time. They both serve different purposes. Hell, by your line of reasoning, you should invest in the high-end laptop that is also a cellphone, carries your money, holds your car keys, can be used in the rain and dirt, can be used as a television, etc. I mean, you're not going to find one device that simply does it all!

This is why the netbook is great. It serves the needs of people looking for portability in a cheap way. That's all I personally care about. The "lots" of gadgets you speak of is simply 1 extra device that I take with me on a daily basis. Seems like you've exaggerated the "lots of devices" idea a bit too far.

Plus, they still play the oldie but goodies! Did I mention that?

Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Very true … I have a whole series of articles called 'The Netbook Gamer' at GearDiary that I keep adding to that looks at these very sorts of things
Very cool!

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Last edited by Xi; February 26th, 2010 at 04:28. Reason: Adding a quote.
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February 26th, 2010, 07:43
Originally Posted by Xi View Post
Honestly, in the same way you propose that I am over thinking this issue, you have clearly under thought it maybe? Truly there can be no such thing as thinking about something too much. I mean, within reasonable terms. (Some what vague, I know.)
Possible, but I don't think so.

If you aren't trying to do the "right" thing, then maybe your doing the "wrong" thing? Again, my point centers around the fact that netbooks are cheaper and have MUCH better battery life, which means they are far more portable - especially when you factor weight and size.
I don't think there's such a thing at all - which is why I'm not concerned with it. That's what I mean by you overthinking, because you're obviously under the impression that buying a luxury can be "right" and you even seem to think that this goes for other people as well, and not just yourself.

The entire debate started when someone said they "don't understand why someone else would purchase a netbook." Something along those lines. So it only seems fair and "right" to evaluate such a claim. This evaluation leads to portability, cost, and no desire to run higher end apps/games while on the go
.

Evaluate away

But the reason I think it's a waste, is that evaluating something requires all relevant factors. If you can't understand the needs of other people, then you're missing some pretty relevant stuff - in my opinion.

This makes the laptop a better choice for you. Since you are going to game, and you want to be able to run the latest and greatest along side intensive art applications, the netbook really isn't a great choice.
Ehm, no. Have you been reading my posts?

The Alienware is my choice - because it fulfills all my needs. No other netbook/notebook does that, so that's why I'm going for it.

What you think based on a complete lack of understanding of my needs, is pretty useless to me.

However, you could also look at it a different way. If, for instance, you rarely if ever will game when not at home, or do homework/mess with 3D apps away from your desktop, then you're merely spending excessive money on features that you will rarely if ever use.
What makes you think I haven't thought about that? Really? I have no idea what makes you assume people don't think such things through.

Again, I'm making an informed decision but it's not necessarily "right" because the term doesn't apply here - not as far as I'm concerned.

You'd have to be honest with yourself here. If you honestly think you'll use such features, on the go, frequently, then purchasing a system to allow for that makes sense. However, if you are being paranoid and saying.. "OMG what if I need those features at some point?" then you're probably not evaluating your needs correctly.
Wow, that's one powerful insight

Let's assume I'm not a complete moron and be ready for the possibility that I've actually thought about what I need, when I'm talking about my needs. I mean, isn't that reasonable?

Again, if you spend that money on that laptop, and then end up using it away from home for gaming/3D apps only a handful of times in the next few years, you've clearly wasted money. However, if you plan to use it somewhat frequently, then it makes sense.
You're really something

You're going in circles. You, again, assume I haven't thought about this - and more so, you think you know what would constitute a waste of money as far as I'm concerned. That means you think your idea of the value of money is the same as mine.

I'm sorry, but you're really in for a big suprise when you realise that your perception of reality will conflict naturally with that of other people. That certainly seems to be one of the few objective truths I've believed in.

We can be objective about these things, after all, because if you do most of your work on a desktop at home, then it's reasonable to assume that you could easily do everything at home and that portability is just a minor luxury. In my case it's the opposite, I use my netbook when I'm not at home, and as such, need long battery life(I'm not charging it throughout the day) and ease of portability aka weight/size. I use my netbook frequently for the purpose it was designed for, and not once in the past 6 months have I stopped to question whether I would have liked to play a modern game on it, or run an intensive app. I simply don't do that stuff with any frequency.
Yeah, it's a luxury. But it's a luxury I can afford and which will do what I want it to do. I would be kidding myself if I thought I could predict with certainty exactly what I was going to use it for. That's for people who can look into the future, or who likes to plan their days in detail and months in advance.

That's not me.

I want certain things for when I'm not home - or in the bedroom, and I can afford this without giving something up I'd rather want - so it can never be a waste of money, unless I'm not happy with my purchase. I expect to be happy with my purchase.

I think we're talking about value here, but value isn't always just a subjective thing. It can be weighed objectively too. I would say value lies in the behavior of an individual. Like I said above, if you buy something that has added features, spend excessive money on it, and then never use those features, objectively speaking you've clearly wasted money and the item had no added value over a netbook.
Obviously, you have no idea what the term objective means. That means a truth that applies to us all - without the subjective (the individual) being a factor.

Since you don't seem to understand my concept of value, and how could you - there's no way you can understand when something is a waste of money in my world.

Which is clear from what you're saying.

I'm not concerned, I'm merely explaining my rationale for purchasing one. It is yourself that doesn't seem to understand that I was answering someone elses question by trying to elaborately give some good reasons for why they are popular and why they are of good value to a lot of people.
No, I didn't understand that you thought - and still think - you can determine what's right for others.

But I'll leave that to you

Really? I gain the saved money I didn't spend excessivley on things I don't need. This frees up these funds for other purchases, something you won't be able to do. That is unless you are filthy rich, but then I can understand this conversation meaning less to you, however, funds are a limited resource for most people, and as such, evaluating the use of funds a good thing to do. It's "right" in the sense that it's logical and reasonable to spend money thoughtfully and not wastefully.
Yeah, I agree that spending money thoughtfully is a sound course of action. But I don't agree that you can possibly understand when that's being done - when it goes beyond yourself and those you might know VERY well. As in, there's not "right" way to do this. You might have a way that you think is right, and that's great for you - but it most likely won't apply to everyone or even most people. That's my point.

I think this is because you haven't thought about it enough. You somehow attach a negative connotation to "over thinking" and being analytical, and decisive in nature. If only we could all nonchalantly spend money without care because we were filthy rich. If you're not rich, you're simply ignorant of this fact.
Overthinking = negative?

I would think so - as the "over" applies more than needed

Those other things I haven't commented on, so that would be you putting words into my mouth.

Once again, you seem to be suggesting that I spend money without thought or care - and that's a bit disturbing. It seems you might not understand the concept of degree and shades of grey. If I don't care about making the "right" choice - then it's not a black/white issue meaning I don't spend time thinking about my use of money.

That's a bit of a scary mindset, so I hope I'm wrong.

Again, technology will always improve, and as such, purchasing excessive things now is just a waste of funds that could be used later on to buy items with features of more cost when those features are actually needed and will be used.
Agreed. That's why I only buy what I can afford when I've developed needs I want met.

I don't see the point in waiting when my needs can be met and I can afford it. Time, to me, is a MUCH MUCH MUCH more important factor - than waiting until the "right" choice comes along. Again, there's no "right" time to buy, to me, beyond the time I spent waiting until something like the M11x came out. Because the time you spend waiting for technology to get cheaper - will be time without that technology put to use, and no matter how long you wait, you'll face the exact same process once you DO buy.

When you buy that alienware laptop, for instance, you will get about 2 years of use out of it before you'd probably have to make a similar purchase to be able to play the latest games.(Netbooks don't have this problem as surfing the web, emailing, and online communities don't require higher resources every 2 years(or not by much), though you might replace a battery - you'd probably do this with any portable device though.) So why spend that much money every time you buy a new device when you don't plan on playing new games or using intensive apps on the go? Of course, you plan on playing new games, but the question is how often and how much you'll play them on the go. After all, you could just as easily play/use those games/apps on your home desktop(unless you don't have one) if you didn't need or weren't going to use portability. Hence the value of a netbook
.

Again, your mindset suggests an incredible arrogance - or a complete lack of trust in the faculties of strangers.

I don't have the faintest clue why you assume I haven't thought about this. My only conclusion is that you think you can set some kind of standard, based on your own limited ideas about what's valuable or not, and then apply them to me.

It seems you think you know what I'll do and what I'll need, because you think there's no way I can be that different from you.

Unfortunately, that suggests you're not an open-minded person with the kind of human experience that makes a thorough debate worthwhile - because everything you say will be based on a very limited horizon.

As such, I think I'll leave it here - unless you display something to suggest otherwise in the future.
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February 26th, 2010, 14:57
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Let's assume I'm not a complete moron and be ready for the possibility that I've actually thought about what I need, when I'm talking about my needs. I mean, isn't that reasonable?
But what fun is THAT?!?!

Can't we assume you buy a variety of different devices because you like to beat yourself in the head with them, and standard notebooks are too 'same', so the m11x fills a nice gap in the self-head-beating feelings between netbook and notebook?

It is amazing how long these posts have become about such a seemingly trivial topic.

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February 26th, 2010, 16:01
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
But what fun is THAT?!?!

Can't we assume you buy a variety of different devices because you like to beat yourself in the head with them, and standard notebooks are too 'same', so the m11x fills a nice gap in the self-head-beating feelings between netbook and notebook?

It is amazing how long these posts have become about such a seemingly trivial topic.
For some reason, I'm often a part of very long posts…. I don't even enjoy making them!

That's messed up
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February 27th, 2010, 21:58
I have opened this tread to meet with other netbook user retrogamers. But, there is a three page long philosophical debate on computers. Interesting.
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February 28th, 2010, 00:36
thanks for the thread actually …It's been usefull to me!

I bought a netbook for my girlfriend a few weeks ago, she needs to access the net, order parts and update some stuff while on the road often for 9+ hours a day. Bought an asus Eee PC 1005pe-pc17-bk, its a version with up to 14 hours of battery life! So its been a great help for her heh.

But the real reason for my purchase was that when she gets home I use it to play older games . Many of em which look much better on a smaller screen and that I can play comfortably on the couch or in bed heh

Here's some game I tried and that seem to work fine on my netbook that do not appear on your list yet.

Call to Power 2 (GoG version + Apolyton.net modifications)
Eschalon Book 1
Fastcrawl
Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers (GoG)
Indiana Jones the Fate of Atlantis (steam)
Ishar 1-2-3 (GoG)
King Quest 4-5-6 (GoG)
Knights of the Chalice
Risk 2 (steam)
Solium Infernum

Been unable to make Avernum 6 run on it though, but I think it requires 1024*768.
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March 1st, 2010, 02:48
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm not going to continue in a pissing match. It's clear that you misunderstand many things, but alas I do not care. Someone reading this post will be able to judge the merits of this argument from at least a few different angles. You call it "over thinking" I call it understanding. Anyway, to each their own.

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March 1st, 2010, 08:19
Originally Posted by Xi View Post
I'm not going to continue in a pissing match. It's clear that you misunderstand many things, but alas I do not care. Someone reading this post will be able to judge the merits of this argument from at least a few different angles. You call it "over thinking" I call it understanding. Anyway, to each their own.
Indeed

I'm glad we can avoid pissing matches - as they serve no purpose.

Definitely, our posts are there for all to read - which is generally the only reason I care to post in the first place

"Winning" arguments on the Internet is about as worthless as it is impossible.

So it's good to agree to disagree - and it seems we got that at least…
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March 1st, 2010, 13:18
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post

"Winning" arguments on the Internet is about as worthless as it is impossible.
I DISAGREE!!!

(Somebody just HAD to write that :-) )

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March 1st, 2010, 13:29
Originally Posted by pibbur View Post
I DISAGREE!!!

(Somebody just HAD to write that :-) )
But of course
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March 1st, 2010, 16:58
Originally Posted by pibbur View Post
I DISAGREE!!!

(Somebody just HAD to write that :-) )

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March 1st, 2010, 19:46
All your base are belong to me!

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March 1st, 2010, 20:12
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March 6th, 2010, 21:19
Originally Posted by Galaad View Post
thanks for the thread actually …It's been usefull to me!

I bought a netbook for my girlfriend a few weeks ago, she needs to access the net, order parts and update some stuff while on the road often for 9+ hours a day. Bought an asus Eee PC 1005pe-pc17-bk, its a version with up to 14 hours of battery life! So its been a great help for her heh.

But the real reason for my purchase was that when she gets home I use it to play older games . Many of em which look much better on a smaller screen and that I can play comfortably on the couch or in bed heh

Here's some game I tried and that seem to work fine on my netbook that do not appear on your list yet.

Call to Power 2 (GoG version + Apolyton.net modifications)
Eschalon Book 1
Fastcrawl
Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers (GoG)
Indiana Jones the Fate of Atlantis (steam)
Ishar 1-2-3 (GoG)
King Quest 4-5-6 (GoG)
Knights of the Chalice
Risk 2 (steam)
Solium Infernum

Been unable to make Avernum 6 run on it though, but I think it requires 1024*768.
I tried Eschalon Book I but it runs slow. It doesn’t offer much in terms of graphics, but demands a relatively powerful CPU, so it’s unplayable for me.
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