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HiddenX
August 28th, 2010, 18:31
4 hours into the game

You start as a level 35 character.
Nice quests, good city design, interesting dialogues.

BUT…
the endless respawn gets me on my nerves. If you are in a dungeon killing some enemies, go around the corner, then go back, RESPAWN !

Thats just a bad game design decision.

Alrik Fassbauer
August 28th, 2010, 20:10
Yes, it even evoked almost a flamewar in the forums.

Maylander
August 30th, 2010, 15:38
Hopefully they'll rebalance it and patch it out. I can't stand constant respawns.

I'll get FoV as soon as it's available, but I suspect that might take a while. It's just not a major title around here.

HiddenX
August 30th, 2010, 21:24
I finished the addon FoV today. All in all a pretty good game.

+ many puzzles - somestimes FoV feels like an adventure game!
+ interesting locations/dungeons
+ some choices (with minor consequeces)
+ some armor sets
+ good dialogues (with rhymes and humor again - do you remember Bellegar ?)
+ thought-reading is back, too

o story - not bad / not really good - the game ist too short (ca. 15-20 hours) for a greater story arc

- combat (respawning rate is pretty high), to avoid this designers blunder I played the game on the easiest difficulty setting; combat becomes a bit meaningless then, but so I was able to play an interesting adventure game ;)

Dwagginz
August 30th, 2010, 22:24
HiddenX, are the engine/gameplay changes as great as they sound? I got a bit fed up towards the end of Divinity 2 as I had to keep saving and quitting every hour or two.

From your comments it sounds like more of the same, but in a new place. Can't be a bad thing :)

HiddenX
August 31st, 2010, 06:50
Ego Draconis FoV is like the first part (the better one IMHO) of the Ego Draconis main game. In FoV you're figthing as a dragon only in the last 30 min of the game. All quests have to be done in your human form. All quests are located in the city of Aleroth - there's no "outside area" because Aleroth is besieged completely.

fatBastard()
August 31st, 2010, 10:45
Considering how there was no respawning at all in Ego Draconis (at least not as far as I remember), it's rather puzzling why they chose to include respawning in FOV and a rather aggressive respawning at that.

Apart from the absolutely atrocious ending in Ego Draconis I rather enjoyed the game so I'm probably going to get FOV at some point (although I sort of decided to boycott any future Divinity game after finishing ED).

Alrik Fassbauer
August 31st, 2010, 12:45
Considering how there was no respawning at all in Ego Draconis (at least not as far as I remember), it's rather puzzling why they chose to include respawning in FOV and a rather aggressive respawning at that.

I assume thre have been "loud voices" wanting that in FOV.

The discussions are still very, very heated in the German FOV forum at Larian's.

I think most people who are pro the respawn argue that Divinity is an action RPG, I think (although I'm not sure) they rather wanted to have the action element as much emphasized as in the original Divinity game.

But this is nothing but my personal impression. Apart from the argument of an "action RPG", which I have read several times already.

bkrueger
August 31st, 2010, 18:13
I assume thre have been "loud voices" wanting that in FOV.

The discussions are still very, very heated in the German FOV forum at Larian's.

I think most people who are pro the respawn argue that Divinity is an action RPG, I think (although I'm not sure) they rather wanted to have the action element as much emphasized as in the original Divinity game.

But this is nothing but my personal impression. Apart from the argument of an "action RPG", which I have read several times already.
The attitude towards respawning seems to depend on the kind of games people grew accustomed to. Players of Diablo clones can't understand games without respawning, while some more traditional role players hate it with a passion.

For me both can be ok, it is a question of balancing. Simply adding to or removing it from a game usually destroys the balancing.

People who want respawning for every game should be punished by three weeks of Dungeon Lords without the respawn-slow-down-patch.

Alrik Fassbauer
September 1st, 2010, 11:35
The attitude towards respawning seems to depend on the kind of games people grew accustomed to. Players of Diablo clones can't understand games without respawning, while some more traditional role players hate it with a passion.

I agree. That's why I'm so much about "educating" people into "what games should have". It rather predefines things intead of letting innovation flow in, imho. It rather makes "concrete-heads" out of people, I fear.

It's like : "this is an action game, therefore it must contain the following elements : ..."

I don't like this sort of fixation.

UK_John
October 11th, 2010, 18:25
Does anyone know if Larian is planning a download for the updated graphic engine that is going to be used in the Gold version of DD2, a combination of DD2 and FoV that is going to be called Dragon Saga?

In other words, something along the lines of what CD Projekt Red did with The Witcher Enhanced?

As long as I don't know, I will not buy the FoV add-on and will wait for Dragon Saga. If Larian were to tell us DD2 and FoV purchasers were going to be looked after with any upgrades in Dragon Saga, then I would trust them. Until they do, why pay out for FoV?

Dwagginz
October 11th, 2010, 18:33
UK_John, there's a patch coming which will apply a number of updates to ED, mostly the technological improvements like "fixing" the engine. As far as I'm aware Flames of Vengeance will carry this patch on the disc, so when you install it over ED you'll end up with a similar experience to DKS, but it won't be equal, although your saves will still carry over into FoV.

A number of the gameplay improvements (like the itemisation) will only be available in DKS unless Larian get approval to release what's been dubbed the ED+FoV=DKS patch, which will apply the other changes to the game, at the cost of invalidating any existing saves.

FoV, for the PC, will only be released digitally (I'm gonna guess £15-20), whereas DKS will be released in retail form (Game have it on pre-order for £25, so I'm gonna get that).

Gokyabgu
November 8th, 2010, 12:26
I was going to buy the expansion from Larian Vault on November 10th. But after I learned from your posts that there's constant respawning in it, I decided to think about buying it. I'm not against action RPGs (TPS or isometric no matter) but constant respawning like in the Sacred games really is a big drawback for me. It's like betrayed from one of my favourite companies.

I hope they won't adopt this approach in Divinity 3.

Do you know this spawning change effects main game as well in Dragon Knight Saga or it is FoV only?

Anyway Divinity 2 is a good RPG, better than BD, but not great as DD. I hope they will return to isometric camera in Divinity 3, like Blizzard did in Diablo 3.

Alrik Fassbauer
November 8th, 2010, 13:43
I fear that a lot of people try to see Divinity as nothing but an Action-RPG. They believe that Divinity 1 was one, too, I fear and they kind of ignore the non-action parts there.

Gorath
November 8th, 2010, 13:45
The respawning is harmless. It only happens in dungeons and hostile areas. The respawn cycle is pretty slow. Effectively you have to kill mobs only twice - on the way in and on the way out.
I generally don't like respawning, but it works well in FoV. It also helps balancing.

IMHO FoV is better than Divinity 2. Even the combat.

Gokyabgu
November 8th, 2010, 14:25
I fear that a lot of people try to see Divinity as nothing but an Action-RPG. They believe that Divinity 1 was one, too, I fear and they kind of ignore the non-action parts there.

Action part of the Divinity series is the attractive part for casual gamers . But, under the hood there always has been great stories, dialogs, quests that like in traditional RPGs (and humor). For me, it’s the exact opposite. Before DD, I really hate Diablo style RPGs, I despise them, did not play them and hate those who loves them, but with DD my biases towards them were gone. It’s the right combination of hack&slash gameplay and traditional RPG game mechanics. For this, DD is a classic for me. BD was somewhat linear and Divinity 2 was not great as 1, but brilliant quest structure was still there.
For me, people can see Divinity games as pure hack&slash, it’s not important. On the contrary, that makes them to play these games and see the beauty under the hood. Real RPGamers know what Divinity series are anyway.

Alrik Fassbauer
November 8th, 2010, 18:45
Me, I loved Divinity 1 for its non-action part.

rooroosta
November 8th, 2010, 20:12
Oh dear, having second thoughts on buying this one now.
Constant respawning definitely spoils the fun i have playing rpgs..not quite as bad as random battles from nowhere though..but that's another can of worms. :)
Might wait and see it Larian rebalance before spending my hard earned on this one.

Gorath
November 8th, 2010, 20:33
Oh dear, having second thoughts on buying this one now.
Constant respawning definitely spoils the fun i have playing rpgs..not quite as bad as random battles from nowhere though..but that's another can of worms. :)
Might wait and see it Larian rebalance before spending my hard earned on this one.

Quite a dogmatic opinion.

In FoV the roleplaying part and the action part are separated.
Small dungeons, respawning after ca. 3 minutes, increasingly weaker opponents because there is no level scaling. It works fine and the combat is actually more difficult and requires more tactics than in D2:ED.

Alistair
November 8th, 2010, 20:36
The respawning didn't detract at all for me - I thought it fitted in well. Clearing the city of undead is supposed to require questing to find and deal with the source, rather than you just single-handedly wiping everything out :)

rooroosta
November 8th, 2010, 21:21
I think I am just careful with my money..i like to make sure i'm not making a mistake in buying..i've had too many of those!
Thanks for your game impressions regarding respawning...most helpful.

Gorath
November 10th, 2010, 00:57
I think I am just careful with my money..i like to make sure i'm not making a mistake in buying..i've had too many of those!
Thanks for your game impressions regarding respawning…most helpful.

NP. :)
It's your own decision and your own money.

Melvil
November 13th, 2010, 19:40
The respawn is tied into part of the story; it makes sense as others have stated. You're so godawful powerful by then that it's not like you're gonna be struggling anyway.

darkling
November 13th, 2010, 20:04
Wow... people actually will refuse to touch a game over something as simple as some minor respawning?

No wonder the gaming industry is in the toilet. Get over yourselves. :(

Alrik Fassbauer
November 13th, 2010, 21:09
It isn't minor, in my opinion.

Respawn is in my opinion a thing closely tied to action-RPGs.
And that's why a part of the players like it : They see in Divinity 2 nothing but action-RPG.
They don't see that Divinity 2 is more than that.

Story-RPGs don't need respawning. Yet, if the "wrong" group enters the realms of a "story-RPG", they might loudly demand respawn in "story-RPGs", too.
And thus they might become action-RPGs, too. Like hundreds more.

This is how I see it.

Dasale
January 1st, 2011, 20:59
Sure nothing minor, it's something that often question me, why young kids would like repeat again and again the same thing? Is it auto education to see as fun a future repetitive job in case of future failed studies probably because of video games?

I don't remember have ever enjoyed repetition when I was young. Anyway it's clear failure of many JRPG, very repetitive fights coming (also) from an intensive respawn is a total fun killer.

Respawn could be used smartly with another purpose like design a fight where you have to manage your way through a constant spawning until you find how to stop it. In few action games it help setup combats where retreat was dangerous. But systematic spawning force multiplying repetitive fights and repetition is so boring.

tolknaz
January 4th, 2011, 21:57
1. There were not that many areas with respawn anyway.
2. You can stop the respawns if you do certain things.
3. Overall i really feel the focus of FOV has shifted from combat to exploration and dialogue a lot compared to the first game.

Dasale
January 6th, 2011, 17:49
How stop the respawns? I'm interested because sooner or later I'll play it and I don't like respawn.

For D2:ED I feel you are exaggerating when you quote that it puts the focus on fights. At the opposite they often put the effort on adventure like not many RPG have done before, at least WRPG. I mean adventure from a large perspective, that includes little tricks and puzzles, almost platform gaming, NPC to provide some dialogs and questing elements, some events, and so on.

Also many places get their bit of fights and their bit of non fights. They didn't hesitate lower a bit the realism to achieve this goal. So often at almost the same place you'll find enemy NPC and friendly NPC to provide the both fights and non fights, and despite often you can wonder why they don't fight each other because they are rather close to each other.

darkling
January 7th, 2011, 11:17
The respawning of monsters was never really an issue for me. I mean, by the time anything has respawned they were really low level compared to me and I could one shot any of them or just run past without getting damaged. Also, dungeons don't respawn, as far as I can tell, just select groups in the world map. And it seems that most world map monster groups don't, or I did whatever quests were necessary to stop the respawning, because I barely see anything respawn.

This is really an overblown "problem" mostly shouted by morons who are looking for a reason to not play the game, rather than people who've played the game and got irritated by it.

Let's go back to what Alrik said about action RPGs being games respawning monsters and story-rpgs being games where monsters don't respawn. Baldur's Gate I and II have random encounters. Some are story related, others are not, instead being randomly determined. The classic gold box Story RPG with tactical combat Pool of Radiance had invisible random encounters of a limitless number in many areas. How is that different from respawning? Wizardry games feature random encounters, not a pre-determined amount. Did you just define all these games as action RPGs? Get real, these systems are not dependent on sub-genre, they're simply different approaches to game design. :P

Zloth
January 16th, 2011, 07:13
!? I'm about 8 hours in or so and haven't seen a re-spawn yet. Though I just got into the Crow's Nest area.

Gorath
January 16th, 2011, 07:34
There should be respawning in the Crow's Nest.

darkling
January 16th, 2011, 12:02
!? I'm about 8 hours in or so and haven't seen a re-spawn yet. Though I just got into the Crow's Nest area.

Before I went to the battle tower, the skeletons at the base of Lovis Tower respawned once for me. The goblins near the necromancers cave did a few times too.

I never thought too much of it. I still think people are crazy for complaining.

Zloth
January 18th, 2011, 06:15
There should be respawning in the Crow's Nest.
Yeah, ran into that the hard way. I figured out a colored flame puzzle, got back out again, and got ambushed by critters I had already taken down some hours earlier! After the initial shock, I took them down pretty easily, though. Going up against critters two levels your junior is quite a bit easier than the ones two levels your senior. I probably could have just jumped & dodged out of there but... well... the first one to go drown dropped some loot. <drool>

Actually, that reminds me of something which I keep bouncing back and forth on - economy. I've almost never needed to sell anything. I sold some stuff early on in the game simply because I didn't have room to carry more. I also sold a little stuff early in Flames to buy some choice loot. But the vast majority of stuff just goes to the Battle Tower coffers where it does nothing but make my save game files a little larger. It really saps the joy out of those 2-choice rewards once it started to get obvious that the second reward would never get used or even sold. But then, I wouldn't be at all happy if I had to keep going back to my tower to sell off stuff, either.

If the vast majority of your best loot comes out in the field, like in this game, maybe it would be better not to have an economy at all. If you aren't going to give me something to buy, just skip the stores completely. I think I would be having a lot more fun with this loot if I could outfit my runners and maybe some soldiers with what I'm finding. I've already got enough to outfit a small army.