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purpleblob
January 5th, 2008, 11:31
ok, I've tried morrowind before and I thought it's dull and boring so never even thought of playing it again. but my bf is big morrowind and oblivion fan and he has convinced me to play morrowind again. I'd like to play oblivion but my computer is not upto date so I cant. well, Im giving it a go with morrowind again.. although I'm so tempted to quit it now since I'm still in very early stage of the game where its very much boring. anyway, there are lots of elderscrolls fans out there... so I just though I'd ask few questions.

1. what morrowind mods can you guys recommend to me to make the game more interesting?

2. which one is better? morrowind or oblivion and why?

Jaz
January 5th, 2008, 11:48
1. I prefer playing my games unmodded, but if you're not beyond destroying some of the charming ugliness of Morrowind by prettifying people, you should search out some of the body- and head mods around (Rhedd's Heads, Better Bodies etc.). I would recommend getting either the MW GotY edition or the Tribunal and Bloodmoon addons. If you play Morrowind with Tribunal, I recommend to start the addon quest immediately - at least the first part is significantly easier if you're still very low level (they introduced level scaling in Tribunal, but it only works for the expansion and not for the main game).

2. I prefer Morrowind because a) it's vast when compared to Oblivion, b) of its unique atmosphere, c) the territorial diversity when compared to Oblivion. All in all, I find Morrowind's visuals hauntingly beautiful in their strangeness. You have to (or can) do lots of running to and fro, which - due to restricted public transport - can be tedious at times, but it's still better than the teleporting feature of Oblivion which makes exploring kind of obsolete. In Daggerfall and Arena, teleporting was okay because these games covered a whole continent respectively parts of a continent.

Sorcha Ravenlock
January 5th, 2008, 12:15
We discussed mods a while ago on this forum when another poster asked a similar question. since I'm too lazy to type out a whole list of mods again I'll give you a link to that thread:

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2368&highlight=Morrowind+mods

this is a good place to start anyway:
http://www.mwmythicmods.com/telesphoros.htm

As for question 2:

I've stuck a lot more time in MW then in OB, I know that for sure. The world is just a lot more interesting then in OB, with more factions, more lore, more politics, loads of little nooks and crannies to explore, and your actions had a lot more consequences.
I envy you if you have to discover all of that for the first time, I wish I could go back to that again.

These days I've come to the realisation that I've played Morrowind so often there is no quest I haven't done, no cave I haven't explored at least twice, no NPC I haven't spoken to (or killed :D ) and in all honesty, I uninstalled the game from my PC last week since I just can't get into it anymore :(
I tend to play Oblivion more often now because I like the sneak system better, and there are still places I haven't been and quests I haven't done.
But that's for when I want to run around for an hour or so and snipe at things, the game doesn't pull me in like Morrowind did where I would lose hours playing.
Morrowind is the better of the two by far.

fatBastard()
January 5th, 2008, 13:16
That depends on what kind of gaming experience you're after/prefer.

The type of gaming that Sorcha is describing seems to be the kind where you go into a gaming world and make up your own kind of gaming session, e.g. take out your frustrations on the inhabitants and go on a killing spree or just stroll about enjoying the scenery or go monster hunting or whatever. Just being in the gaming world is more important than the reason for being there. In my opinion, this kind of gaming experience is often preferred by people who enjoy returning to the gaming world over and over during the course of months, perhaps even years.

The other kind of gaming experience is the one where you strap yourself in and go along for the ride. The reason for playing (i.e. story elements and quests) are what drives the player to continue. For example, you explore an area because you're looking for a certain plant for the local alchemist or a certain monster/bandit for the local bounty hunter guild, etc.

Both types of gaming experience contain the same gameplay elements but in the former YOU create your reason for being there and in the later THEY (the developers) created your reason for being there.

Morrowind is vast, fairly empty and populated by a huge population of more or less lifeless drones and a few quest giving NPCs. It is the perfect setting for creating your own kind of experience but you have to be creative because the game is more or less one huge sandbox with rather limited incentive to continue the main story (or any side story for that matter).

Oblivion, on the other hand, is packed with a staggering amount of vastly different quests, from tiny fed-ex type quests to huge undertakings, taking you all around the landmass. Some quests are of the fairly straight forward, well known type while others are truly surprising, both in terms of twists but also in their execution. In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.

So, the question you've got to ask yourself is this: Do you want to create your own kind of gaming experience or do you want to go for the ride the developers have prepared for you?

akarthis
January 5th, 2008, 14:25
Question number 1:I played morrowind with no mods so i can't help you.I don't like mods.
Question number 2:I played morrowind the first time with an attitude of a hardcore gamer.I was trying to do all quests and enter all dungeons i saw.I managed to play it for 2 weeks.I uninstalled it saying what a crap game it is.After some months i played it again with a concept."I will be a fighter thief person with a neutral attitude.I did only quests that was close to my concept and suddently i loved the game.Morrowind was a new game.Great experience.
As for Oblivion.....i was playing it without mods until i got my first glass sword.I was very happy until i met a random bandit who asked me 100 golds.I said no,thinking it's time to use my new sword.Guess...he had one too.Then i tried it with many mods but some negative elements were there and i quit.Morrowind has no rival when it comes to oblivion

JDR13
January 5th, 2008, 15:00
Both types of gaming experience contain the same gameplay elements but in the former YOU create your reason for being there and in the later THEY (the developers) created your reason for being there.


I disagree with that analysis, the games aren't really that different as far as the way quest are presented, although I won't deny that Oblivion had more variety in the styles. I also never felt that I needed to create reasons to be there while playing Morrowind, the quest were varied and interesting enough to keep me going the whole time I played it.

The problem that I ran into rather, was the fact that I'm a completist who tries to do everything you can do in a game on a single playthrough. That's not really feasible in Morrowind, and I ended up getting burned out on my first attempt after 100+ hours, similar to what akarthis describes in the above post about his first experience with the game.


In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.


fatBastard(), did you use any mods when you played Oblivion? Just curious if you actually found vanilla Oblivion fun enough to play for 300+ hours.

Remus
January 5th, 2008, 15:07
I'm avid player of Morrowind when the game came out - spent several hundreds hours either playing the original game or with various mods by community. I liked it because of the two gaming experiences as described by fatBastard(). To think that i had spent about 500 hours playing the game on and off for 2-3 years is kind of scary now O_O.

I'd like pick up the Oblivion someday to see whether Oblivion is better or worse compares to Morrowind, but not very likely as for now there are still 4-5 new games (The Witcher, Condemned, World of Conflict, Bioshock) left untouched .

KazikluBey
January 5th, 2008, 15:41
Morrowind is vast, fairly empty and populated by a huge population of more or less lifeless drones and a few quest giving NPCs. It is the perfect setting for creating your own kind of experience but you have to be creative because the game is more or less one huge sandbox with rather limited incentive to continue the main story (or any side story for that matter).
Funny, that was exactly what I thought of Oblivion.

Oblivion, on the other hand, is packed with a staggering amount of vastly different quests, from tiny fed-ex type quests to huge undertakings, taking you all around the landmass. Some quests are of the fairly straight forward, well known type while others are truly surprising, both in terms of twists but also in their execution. In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.
And that sounds a lot like Morrowind to me, except there weren't as many quirky quests like "fetch a guy who got stuck inside a painting".

I'd say both Morrowind and Oblivion were deeply flawed games but with Morrowind I at least got the feeling that the developers were actually trying to shoot for something great, whereas with Oblivion everything seemed like it was designed with the lowest common denominator/mediocrity in mind or like it was designed by committee.

fatBastard()
January 5th, 2008, 16:33
As is clearly evident, opinions differ from person to person. I'm not saying that Morrowind is bad in any way, but the fact of the matter is that even with a handful of mods (though mostly visual enhancement like the better bodies/faces, readable road signs, etc) I burned out after 80-100 hours when playing Morrowind, halfway through the building of my mansion and only about a third way through the main quest. By that time I was godlike. Nothing could touch me and since I was playing before the journal fix, I lost interest when I could no longer figure out where I needed to go, who I needed to see and what I had yet to do.

In Oblivion I sat down and started playing and didn't stop until there were no more quests in my journal and only THEN did I realize that I had spent more than 300 hours on the game. About halfway through I installed an interface enhancement mod (I can't remember the name, but I was one that came highly recommended by Rendelius from the RPGDot site), that reduced the inventory fonts and added an indicator for either arrows or weapon damage on the HUD. I got it on release day and sat down and played from start to finish with almost no interruptions so by the time I was finished, there wasn't really any mods worth mentioning yet, so I guess it was basically the Vanilla version I played.

The thing is that I'm also a bit of a completionist but at the same time the creative part of my brain doesn't work. I'm certain that if you opened up my skull there would be an empty space where the creative portion usually resides and inside you'd find an IOU note. It is therefore essential for me that there is a REASON for me to do things in games. I don't explore for the exploration's sake. I explore because I need to find something/one and that is what Oblivion provided for me but Morrowind failed to do to a certain degree. I often had to stop and wonder: "Where to now?" when I played Morrowind but there was always some kind of incentive in Oblivion. Even before leaving the capital for the first time I had a reason to go to almost every city in Oblivion.

Of course the whole "being towed around like a dog on a leash" debate concerning Oblivion, and many other games for that matter, is one that has been going on ever since the game got released and it all comes down to personal preference. I've never finished an Ultima game because I, to this day, still have absolutely no idea what I'm supposed to accomplish or how I'm to go about doing it. Some people like being given free reigns to do whatever they want, I just stop and ask the question: Why should I? In my opinion, Oblivion was better at providing a common binding thread throughout the entire game than Morrowind was and that is why I was able to finish Oblivion and not Morrowind.

But, to each his own.

JDR13
January 5th, 2008, 17:02
In Oblivion I sat down and started playing and didn't stop until there were no more quests in my journal and only THEN did I realize that I had spent more than 300 hours on the game.

there wasn't really any mods worth mentioning yet, so I guess it was basically the Vanilla version I played.



So it never really bothered you that all the enemies were always the same level as you, and that the loot they carried leveled up with you? Or did you not really notice those things?

I'm just asking out of curiosity because I've never played very far into Oblivion and I'm still debating whether or not I'm going to use mods or play vanilla when I finally start a serious playthrough.

xSamhainx
January 5th, 2008, 18:35
I was more driven to explore every nook and cranny in Morrowind, I'm an explorer at heart. The caves and various temples and such strewn across the land were little mini-goals for me that needed to be conquered. The monsters within needed to be eradicated, they held specific loot and secrets that needed to be unveiled. Once they were, I felt my work was done. It gave me a sense of completion, I had truly conquered the land. They were also not pointed out to me, I had to comb the land in search of specific places.

In Oblivion, there are similar dens and such scattered about, but for the most part there is no conquering them. They respawn enemies, loot, and so on, and most of them are non-specific in the nature of their contents. Basically, theyre random dungeon generators, as opposed to the crafted dungeons of MW. There is no real search for specific places in Oblivion, as there is in Morrowind, since there is a map thing which shows you where things exactly are. Oblivions dungeons do have traps, which can be fun, and I'm not saying theyre entirely bad. I do like both games, but I would have to say that I felt I made more of a difference in Morrowind when everything's said and done.

fatBastard()
January 5th, 2008, 20:32
So it never really bothered you that all the enemies were always the same level as you, and that the loot they carried leveled up with you? Or did you not really notice those things?

The way I see it is that Bethesda listened to the criticism they got for Morrowind regarding the issue I mentioned earlier, that about halfway through the game, you're basically invincible and even Golden Saints and Deadra are but kittens for you to kick around as you see fit. The level scaling system was the result and though certainly not perfect, it is a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

Even though the punishment for not picking a combat style and developing it increases as you level up, the level scaling still manages to provide the player with a challenge for much longer than Morrowind did. Sure, by the end you're still pretty much untouchable but that is the same for most RPGs and it took a lot longer to get to that point this time around.

The loot problem is indeed a valid point. In my case, I leveled pretty slowly so by the time every highway man was wearing Glass Armour I had already collected my complete set and the abundance of costly loot is outweighed by the limitations of the stock you need to buy, like arrows. All of the unique items in the game are pretty much quest items, so they are not really affected by this issue and the only other really valuable loot are the portal hearts which you use to enhance your armour/weapons and since there is one per portal, they are not affected either.

Then again I solve quests for the solving's sake, not the reward/loot in the end, so that is probably also a reason why it didn't really bother me much.

akarthis
January 6th, 2008, 17:28
Well,i totally disagree with you fatb.You say Bethesda heard the criticism about being demigod in morrowind in the middle of the game and they created level scaling wich was a move to the right direction.But,with this solution you were a demigod from the start in Oblivion.You could be grand champion in all cyrodil(arena) from the first level!!!This is just an example,and there are more.
Of course this is just opinions and since you enjoyed the game i'm very happy for you

fatBastard()
January 6th, 2008, 21:09
When I said demigod, I meant being virtually untouchable. Even a Golden Saint would hardly ever land a blow on me by the time I stopped playing Morrowind and even if they did hit, the damage was so minor that I had basically regenerated all damage before I was hit again. I could almost go take a leak in the middle of a fight and come back to mob up afterwards (slight exaggeration but not by much).

I actually tried going up against the Grey Champion at a very low level and it took him no more than a single hit to put my lights out. That is hardly what I call being a demigod. I'm not saying it can't be done. Heck, I remember tales of a Monk character in Baldur's Gate 2 that had his Quivering Palm connect when he used it against a dragon and BAM! it was dead. But a lucky blow is not the same as being a demigod and winning against an opponent that can flatten you with a single hit is either by luck, by cheating/exploiting a weakness or by being skilled.

Perhaps there is a trick to beating certain adversaries that doesn't depend on your level that I don't know about but I do know that I can't count all the times I had to reload because I failed to "fish out" one opponent at a time and consequently found myself surrounded by 2 or 3 baddies that made minced meat out of me. On the other hand, I rarely felt like I simply couldn't win no matter what I did, so yes, to ME the level scaling was indeed a step in the right direction.

Zaleukos
January 7th, 2008, 08:56
1. what morrowind mods can you guys recommend to me to make the game more interesting?

2. which one is better? morrowind or oblivion and why?

1) That can only be answered if you specify which parts of the game that bore you. I played with only some cosmetic and bugfix mods besides the official ones.

2) I personally found Morrowind vastly more enjoyable (spent hundreds of hours on it compared to less than twenty for Oblivion). It simply has a lot more to do, and the guild questlines that play a big part for me are much longer (and there are enough guilds in the game to justify a replay). The combat system stinks though, and Oblivion does some things better. IMHO some of the strong and weak points of the games

MW:
+ Lots of quests (this weighs VERY heavily for me)
+ Quests that show a web of interlinked politics
+ Varied world
+ The low population density is believable since one is on a frontier island
+ Replayability through quantity
+ More character customisation options through more skills and equipment (another biggie for me)
+ Smaller dungeons (this is a matter of taste, I like it as I am a surface dweller by nature) with occasional unique loot.
- Unbalanced (like all ES games it is easy to become a jack of all trades, but IMHO this problem isnt that big if you roleplay and specialize your characters). Partially moddable.
- Awful combat (hold down a mouse button and hit your enemy based on luck and your combat stat). Moddable?
- Mostly linear quests with little branching and a world that doesnt recognize most of your achievements. Not moddable.
- Grinding to improve your skills. Moddable.
- Too much walking. Not moddable.
- Static NPCs that just stand there all day long reduces immersion. Moddable?
- Crashes a lot (at least for me...). Not moddable.

Oblivion
+ Looks good and doesnt require all that much hardware:p
+ Some good quests
+ NPC schedules add to immersion
+ Fast travel to visited locations saves a lot of boring walking time. I wish more games had this.
+ Technical polish. Crashes very rarely. Short loading times.
- Tonnes of interface issues on the PC in particular. Partially moddable.
- A quest compass that railroads the quests and unfortunately is necessary since there arent enough other hints in the game. Integral to the quest design and not really moddable.
- Fewer quests. Moddable but fan made quests cant substitute the quality of professional content.
- too many escort quests that are hopeless due to AI and enemies scaling up much more than the allies... Partially moddable?
- Mostly linear quests with little branching and a world that doesnt recognize most of your achievements. Not moddable.
- Awful combat, but this time action based arcadish such (some like it though). Moddable?
- Unbalanced, level scaling makes the game harder as you level up and some builds (such as thief types) are simply not viable at high levels when the enemies have thousands of hitpoints. While MW is unbalanced in that jacks of all trades are godly, Oblivion makes outright punishes specialists. Partially moddable
- Physics and AI bugs due to a potentially interesting being misused and badly tuned. Walk past a shelf and watch all the items fall to the floor. See guards catching each other in friendly fire and kill each other. Have the characters you escort run in between your sword and the enemy. Not moddable.
- Awful dungeons that are random recombinations of dungeon blocks (the same as ancient Daggerfall) and have random enemies and content. Not moddable.
- Voice acting consisting of five or so actors. Sean Bean does a good job, but the sheer repetition of retarded suburbian voices (I truly hate cats that sound like Whoopi Goldberg) hurts immersion. Patrick Stewarts part is pointless as he only is in the intro. Not moddable?

They share some flaws and strong points. Both follow the TES tradition of a free roaming world with weak NPC interaction and storyline, e g sandboxing. Neither is all that immersive. If your problem is with that genre then neither game is likely to appeal to you.

And is moddable a word? :)


Morrowind is vast, fairly empty and populated by a huge population of more or less lifeless drones and a few quest giving NPCs. It is the perfect setting for creating your own kind of experience but you have to be creative because the game is more or less one huge sandbox with rather limited incentive to continue the main story (or any side story for that matter).

Oblivion, on the other hand, is packed with a staggering amount of vastly different quests, from tiny fed-ex type quests to huge undertakings, taking you all around the landmass. Some quests are of the fairly straight forward, well known type while others are truly surprising, both in terms of twists but also in their execution. In fact, there is so much to do in Oblivion, that I strapped myself in and went for a ride and I wasn't finished until more than 300+ hours later, and there was still plenty or ruins/caves left to explore.

I also disagree with your analysis. I'm actually pretty sure that Morrowind has a significantly larger number of quests. It certainly has many more guild quests (and guilds). In contrast to you I quit Oblivion because I found that there was too little to do (unless joining every guild I ran out of quests after 15-20 hours, and I was bored due to some interface issues such as the compass breaking the immersion of many quests). I'd grant that some (but far from all) of the Oblivion quests are more interesting than the MW ones though.

Exploration of dungeons is pointless as the dungeons are random recombinations of dungeon blocks. The only variety is in the dungeon type, e g if it is a vampire cave, a monster cave, or a bandit cave.

purpleblob
January 7th, 2008, 10:10
well Im in VERY early stage of the game.. where I cant run fast, i cant jump well, I cant cast spells much and I cant kill things well. I got my butt kicked good by nix hounds in some cave where random ppl attack me. and yes combat system just bores me so much. I suppose that cant be fixed though. is there some mod that helps me level up faster? I would like to fight vampires or some more impressive monsters. also.... npcs irritates me a lot, so I want to get powerful enough so I can whack ppl in the face and run away without getting killed.... ;) I mean after all you can do WHATEVER you want in this game... thats the best thing about non-linear game like morrowind :D I do wish to turn into vampire at one stage too....

Dhruin
January 7th, 2008, 10:31
I have about 50 hours in both of them, so I'm not exactly an Elder Scrolls fan (didn't like Daggerfall, either). That said, I'm not one of the irrational haters either, so perhaps my opinion has some value.

Ultimately, I liked Oblivion better for "gameplay" reasons. I simply hated the insipid combat in Morrowind. OB's combat isn't perfect but it's much, much better and the ranged combat is quite enjoyable. I also thought OB had better dialogue, better quests and some of the short storylines (Brotherhood, Thieves Guild) are pretty good, if linear and devoid of choices.

I also didn't connect with the alien landscape of MW, although it's much more creative than the generic fantasy of OB. I'd also agree the lore and houses are much more interesting in MW...I just couldn't enjoy them.

Francesco's fixed the scaling debacle in OB and I quite enjoyed finishing the Brotherhood and Thieves Guild but that was enough.

So, OB has improved gameplay elements (scaling aside) and MW has a more interesting setting, even though I didn't really like it.

Corwin
January 7th, 2008, 11:06
I spent 100 hours with MW avoiding combat and the main plotline. I rose to the top of a house and a guild or two and basically achieved nothing. When something new came along I left the game and never returned. With OB, I finished the main quest and all the guild quests except those for the assassins. YAWN...........boring and nothing meant anything!! I MUCH prefer Arena and Daggerfall.

Geist
January 7th, 2008, 11:24
I found Morrowind very beautiful, atmospheric and immersive for the first 20-30 hours. As Sammy pointed out, exploring is a major highlight. The first time you come across a Daedric ruin, a dwemer fortress, or a Telvani mushroom house (or whatever the heck they called it) it's a jaw dropping experience. If I had stopped playing after 30 hours, I would probably have nothing but fond memories of Morrowind.

Unfortunately, I didn't stop. Being a completist (though Bethesda has done much to cure me of that affliction), I was determined to play through all the guilds I had joined, as well as the main quest. As a result, my memories of Morrowind center mostly on the sheer number of uninteresting, repetitive dialogs, the astronomical number of uninteresting, repetitive fed-ex quests, the glut of uninteresting, repetitive combat...you get the idea. Even exploration loses its luster after a while. Once you've seen 3 or 4 Daedric shrines, they all start to look very much the same. Sure there are a few exceptions, but by and large, they're modeled after the same template, and you know pretty much exactly what you're going to find when you enter one.
I don't think I've wasted so many hours on a game since...well Daggerfall. If a genie were to show up and offer to give me those hours of my life back, I would definitely say yes.

Zaleukos
January 7th, 2008, 11:28
well Im in VERY early stage of the game.. where I cant run fast, i cant jump well, I cant cast spells much and I cant kill things well. I got my butt kicked good by nix hounds in some cave where random ppl attack me. and yes combat system just bores me so much. I suppose that cant be fixed though. is there some mod that helps me level up faster? I would like to fight vampires or some more impressive monsters. also.... npcs irritates me a lot, so I want to get powerful enough so I can whack ppl in the face and run away without getting killed.... ;) I mean after all you can do WHATEVER you want in this game... thats the best thing about non-linear game like morrowind :D I do wish to turn into vampire at one stage too....

Grinding is truly a problem in the beginning:(

There are mods that affect how long it takes to improve skills, though I dont know the names of them. Without modding the following goes (you might know this already:))

Improving your skills is dependent on use, and only "successful" use counts, so in the beginning your combat skill will improve slowly as you miss a lot (due to low skill). Once you have 40 points or so you will improve faster, and once you reach a much higher skill things will slow down again as improvement becomes more "expensive". If you use a custom build with major skill for the weapon you want to use (spears, hand to hand, and short blade are weakest, the others are fine) you'll start off around that level.

Armour skills are upgraded by getting hit while wearing the relevant armour. The starting area has low level enemies like mudcrabs and rats that can "train" you without killing you fast.

Jumping and running skills (acrobatics/athletics) are trained simply by jumping and running, and since these skills always succeed they will go up very fast. Just press the key for "always run" upon loading a savegame and jump a lot. It does lower your stamina and make you susceptible to knockdowns though.

The human enemies in dungeons are AFAIK not level scaled in MW and are generally too strong for a level 1 character unless that character is a fighter type. The bandit cave outside Seyda Neen and the first dungeon that you are sent to in the main quest are probably the easiest "human" dungeons.

And one little Elder Scrolls oddity: Due to level scaling your enemies become stronger as you level up, so the strongest character might be one that doesnt have his used skills as major/minor skills. A level 1 character with skill levels of 70 will be much stronger relative to his enemies than a level 10 character with skill levels around 70. The caveats (for Morrowind) are that a higher level does give you more hitpoints, and that some enemies (notably humans) arent scaled to your level.

Zaleukos
January 7th, 2008, 11:35
well Im in VERY early stage of the game.. where I cant run fast, i cant jump well, I cant cast spells much and I cant kill things well. I got my butt kicked good by nix hounds in some cave where random ppl attack me. and yes combat system just bores me so much. I suppose that cant be fixed though. is there some mod that helps me level up faster? I would like to fight vampires or some more impressive monsters. also.... npcs irritates me a lot, so I want to get powerful enough so I can whack ppl in the face and run away without getting killed.... ;) I mean after all you can do WHATEVER you want in this game... thats the best thing about non-linear game like morrowind :D I do wish to turn into vampire at one stage too....

EDIT: It seems like you DO want a sandbox game, and from your description you might actually like Oblivion better. You'll get to the stage where you are strong enough to kill things as you please faster in MW though, as the level scaling is weaker and caps earlier than in Oblivion.

Grinding is truly a problem in the beginning:(

There are mods that affect how long it takes to improve skills, though I dont know the names of them. Without modding the following goes (you might know this already:))

Improving your skills is dependent on use, and only "successful" use counts, so in the beginning your combat skill will improve slowly as you miss a lot (due to low skill). Once you have 40 points or so you will improve faster, and once you reach a much higher skill things will slow down again as improvement becomes more "expensive". If you use a custom build with major skill for the weapon you want to use (spears, hand to hand, and short blade are weakest, the others are fine) you'll start off around that level.

Armour skills are upgraded by getting hit while wearing the relevant armour. The starting area has low level enemies like mudcrabs and rats that can "train" you without killing you fast.

Jumping and running skills (acrobatics/athletics) are trained simply by jumping and running, and since these skills always succeed they will go up very fast. Just press the key for "always run" upon loading a savegame and jump a lot. It does lower your stamina and make you susceptible to knockdowns though.

The human enemies in dungeons are AFAIK not level scaled in MW and are generally too strong for a level 1 character unless that character is a fighter type. The bandit cave outside Seyda Neen and the first dungeon that you are sent to in the main quest are probably the easiest "human" dungeons.

And one little Elder Scrolls oddity: Due to level scaling your enemies become stronger as you level up, so the strongest character might be one that doesnt have his used skills as major/minor skills. A level 1 character with skill levels of 70 will be much stronger relative to his enemies than a level 10 character with skill levels around 70. The caveats (for Morrowind) are that a higher level does give you more hitpoints, and that some enemies (notably humans) arent scaled to your level. The vampires are also not scaled and the vampire caves are among the toughest locations in the unmodded vanilla game. You'll need a lot of hitpoints (I think I was lvl 15 or so when first accidentally entering one and got slaughtered, lvl 25 or so should be fine) and high skills to take them on.

EDIT2: One more trick for the early game is to visit the blades trainer guys in balmora while still level 1. You will get some equipment that you can sell for fast cash. Use that to pay NPCs to train your weapon skill to 45-50, and you'll be strong enough to take on basic enemies.

JDR13
January 7th, 2008, 16:23
I loved the first 20-30 hours of Morrowind when I was still weak and trying desperately to get my skills higher, that was one of the best parts of the game imo.

Zaleukos
January 7th, 2008, 17:51
IMHO levels 5-30 (or whenever you approach demigod status) are most enjoyable. The very beginning is tedious as you cant hit worth shite, and the game also gets dull once you can kill anything in a few hits. The expansion postpone the latter point a bit though.

I guess the feeling of actually improving your character is particularly important to sandbox type RPGs with weak storyline.:)

purpleblob
January 8th, 2008, 03:09
EDIT: It seems like you DO want a sandbox game, and from your description you might actually like Oblivion better. You'll get to the stage where you are strong enough to kill things as you please faster in MW though, as the level scaling is weaker and caps earlier than in Oblivion.

I might. But as I've mentioned before, my computer is not powerful enough to run oblivion. Although... now I'm looking at new computer price... or plan to upgrade my comp at least. I will just have to hope for the best *fingers crossed*

BillSeurer
January 16th, 2008, 18:08
I was more driven to explore every nook and cranny in Morrowind, I'm an explorer at heart. The caves and various temples and such strewn across the land were little mini-goals for me that needed to be conquered. The monsters within needed to be eradicated, they held specific loot and secrets that needed to be unveiled. Once they were, I felt my work was done. It gave me a sense of completion, I had truly conquered the land.

Sorry to deflate your memories but monsters respawned (and leveled) in Morrowind, too. Just at a much slower pace than in Oblivion.

woges
January 16th, 2008, 19:05
I don't think the monsters actually levelled in Morrowind did they? I thought level just made a difference to the items they dropped but the critters themselves had set levels. So you could trigger wandering monsters at certain levels but the whole world didn't adopt your level.

Jaz
January 16th, 2008, 19:24
IIRC they levelled once the Tribunal addon was installed, but I believe just the Tribunal-related mosters and enemies were level-scaled.

Stanza
January 16th, 2008, 20:03
Expansions did not change Morrowind itself: all NPCs are of fixed level, while critters are all leveled. At 1st level, the Grazelands are full of rats. At 20th level, they're full of golden saints. If there's a unique name attached to it, its level is fixed.

What the expansions changed was to have random NPCs leveled -- guards, bandits, etc. But all named NPCs were still fixed level. But this only applies within Mournhold and on Solstheim.

Relayer
January 16th, 2008, 20:46
The way I see it is that Bethesda listened to the criticism they got for Morrowind regarding the issue I mentioned earlier, that about halfway through the game, you're basically invincible and even Golden Saints and Deadra are but kittens for you to kick around as you see fit. The level scaling system was the result and though certainly not perfect, it is a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

Even though the punishment for not picking a combat style and developing it increases as you level up, the level scaling still manages to provide the player with a challenge for much longer than Morrowind did. Sure, by the end you're still pretty much untouchable but that is the same for most RPGs and it took a lot longer to get to that point this time around.

The loot problem is indeed a valid point. In my case, I leveled pretty slowly so by the time every highway man was wearing Glass Armour I had already collected my complete set and the abundance of costly loot is outweighed by the limitations of the stock you need to buy, like arrows. All of the unique items in the game are pretty much quest items, so they are not really affected by this issue and the only other really valuable loot are the portal hearts which you use to enhance your armour/weapons and since there is one per portal, they are not affected either.

Then again I solve quests for the solving's sake, not the reward/loot in the end, so that is probably also a reason why it didn't really bother me much.

I think the main point here is that you're ROLEPLAYING and it makes it a bit hard to swallow the fact that bandits living in caves are walking around in really expensive armor.

Not only that but bandits AND other NPCs (notably Imperial Guards) can kick your butt so why is it that YOU'RE running around by your self trying to stop this evil.

Forgetting the stupidity of the plot/writing, this just sucks the fun out of exploration, combat, levelling.

You don't get the same sense of accomplishment when levelling because everything else is levelling with you - no matter where you go the stakes are the same. Going through a tough dungeon to find the same level appropriate armor and a few septim? Bleh.

Morrowind handled this better for roleplaying - I think if you just ran around completing your quests as normally as possible and doing the occasional cave plunder as opposed to going out of your way to fight anything you could just to level (not to mention using trainers) then the challenge was there fairly well into the game. And the expansion packs bumped the difficulty up as well - as long as you didn't powerlevel by the time you started them.

Oblivion did have a more enjoyable combat system and as screwed (and comedic at times) as the Radiant AI system is it was still better than NPCs standing around ALL DAY in the same spot talking to themselves in MW.

I have witnessed a few cool things in Oblivion such as coming upon a bandit fighting a guard in the middle of nowhere. And having guards patrolling OUTSIDE of cities also added a nice touch. There were also some minor improvements in stealth and the archery system as well.

And although the setting is bland the graphics are impressive, moreso than MW was at release.

In the end though, Morrowind wins for me for having a more interesting setting, political & social intrigue, the whole "stranger in a strangeland" dynamic, and more factions. Even with all it's shortcomings the world just felt more substantial and real - you really did feel like you were in another world. Oblivion just screamed GAME with it's generic Medeival fantasy world, all the text pop ups, the "radar" and other things.

What killed the feeling of a real world most for me in Oblivion besides the architecture was Bethesda using several voices for the same NPC and only having a few voice actors (none of them very good) to begin with.

They should remake Morrowind and it's expansions using the Oblivion graphics engine (minus the horrible UI) but some of the better looking facial models from modders, voicing all the characters (using more than 5 actors, for the love of all that's good - and stop using friends/family!!!) improving the difficulty/challenge and removing 90% of the Cliff Racer population.

Relayer
January 16th, 2008, 20:55
Forgot to add: the way the main quest revealed itself in Morrowind was perfect. It made SOME kind of sense. You were sent on some basic errands investigating for a Spymaster on a secret mission and the MQ opened up gradually to you, all the while you got to discover the world around you.

The whole, DOOMSDAY IS HERE, CLOSE THE GATES of Oblivion was a joke especially when everyone around you went on as normal.

Kvatch was done well - they should have taken it futher and made it so every few hours or so a new town was attacked unless you took action. Anyway, enough about Oblivion. That game left a really bad taste.

Squeek
January 16th, 2008, 21:05
Morrowind should have been more like a perfected Daggerfall, and Oblivion even more than that. The second game of the series is the gem. It was enormous and innovative but incomplete and, at the higher levels, unbalanced.

Bethesda made the next two games progressively smaller and simpler, and that's a shame.

xSamhainx
January 16th, 2008, 21:11
Did I mention the totally ridiculous influence minigame?

"Woah! I like that!" "Dont talk such rubbish!" "Wow, that's a good one!" "Go to Hell!"

I'm paraphrasing of course, I havent played the game in some time, but it was funny how they all seem like a bi-polar on methamphetamine or something

JDR13
January 17th, 2008, 04:16
Sorry to deflate your memories but monsters respawned (and leveled) in Morrowind, too. Just at a much slower pace than in Oblivion.


Monsters only respawned on the world map, they would have to in order to keep a degree of realism. They did not respawn in caves\dungeons.

Zaleukos
January 17th, 2008, 08:14
IIRC pure Monster dungeons respawned upon re-entry of the cell, while vampire caves and dungeons with humanoid NPC monsters didnt. And as stated level scaling didnt apply to unique named enemies.

The differences compared to Oblivion are largely matters of tuning, except for a few things:

Monsters themselves werent scaled, so a rat is always a rat with the same stats in MW, while in Oblivion the rat's abilities will vary.
MW:s NPCs had fixed levels and equipment, making some places very hazardous at a low level.
Scaling in (vanilla at least) MW is done by replacing one critter with a tougher type (notice how netches start appearing when you reach level 8 or so), but the different regions have different scaling caps. You will for instance never face Golden Saints in the starting area no matter how high your level is.

Loot from chests, merchant inventories, and the like were completely level scaled though. And with the add-ons some enemies (Dark brotherhood assassins) have scaled loot.

You cant really compare MW to Daggerfall. IMHO it, for better or worse, represented a paradigm shift towards making the game more accessible. Oblivion is OTOH a pretty natural evolution of MW.

purpleblob
January 17th, 2008, 09:00
I'm starting to get hang on it. I wouldn't say it's really interesting but yes, I do like concept of freedom. Although it would have been horrible with all these mods I've installed. I would probably never be able to play this without mods.

JDR13
January 17th, 2008, 09:46
IIRC pure Monster dungeons respawned upon re-entry of the cell, while vampire caves and dungeons with humanoid NPC monsters didnt.


Dungeons, caves, and buildings did not respawn monsters period.

At least I never saw it happen, and I logged in well over a 100 hours in Morrowind.

JDR13
January 17th, 2008, 09:48
I'm starting to get hang on it. I wouldn't say it's really interesting but yes, I do like concept of freedom. Although it would have been horrible with all these mods I've installed. I would probably never be able to play this without mods.


Which mods did you end up going with?

Maylander
January 17th, 2008, 10:40
The biggest difference to me, personally, and why I enjoyed MW a lot more than Oblivion, were the factions. The factions in Morrowind are very well done, and involve quite a few quests where you need real dedication to a specific faction, instead of being able to lead all factions in the end.

I enjoy that kind of "ambitious roleplay", where gaining ranks and reputation is involved, but not when there's no real reward, no real challenge, and no real choices along the way (like in Oblivion). Getting to the top of the Imperial faction in Morrowind, for example, is a very tough climb, but also very rewarding in the end.

Edit: Thought I should mention this - these days I almost exclusively do faction based quests, with the factions I intend to go all the way with. For a new player, that is not adviced (you might want to learn more about the factions first), but if you are even remotely fighter-ish, I recommend trying to do a few quests with the Imperial faction, as you'll get some very nice quest rewards, and a feeling of "getting involved".

Zaleukos
January 17th, 2008, 12:25
EDIT: I also prefer to stick with one or two factions that blend together well, but I would have preferred if Bethesda had coded them to be mutually exclusive to some extent (though I am aware that this would have been against the design decisions for all the TES games). Some of the possible combinations dont really make sense. But if you restrain yourself and stick with a few factions per character the game has very good replay value for an RPG, and there are enough quests in it for it to feel like a full game even when skipping some of the factions:) To me that was the biggest letdown in Oblivion, the reduction of the number of quests and factions.

Dungeons, caves, and buildings did not respawn monsters period.

At least I never saw it happen, and I logged in well over a 100 hours in Morrowind.

I have played it for hundreds of hours as well, and I am quite sure that either you are wrong or we define dungeon differently. Granted one usually doesnt visit caves more than once in the game, but I have a distinct memory of a sixth house base that is part both of the teleporter index- and the fighters guild questlines.

A quick test with my old saves confirm that "some" dungeons do respawn, so we might both be right:)

The Vivec foreign quarter underworks' rats respawns once you've disposed of the corpses.
The bandit cave outside Seyda Neen doesnt respawn.
Andrano ancestral tomb (part of the main quest?) doesnt either.
Tharys ancestral tomb outside Balmora (on the way to the egg mine) respawns.

I recall egg mines and the lower part of the arktangband (?, the dwemer dungeon in the main quest) respawning too, but dont have the time nor the inclination to verify this.:p

JDR13
January 17th, 2008, 12:47
I have been to dozens of caves\tombs\dungeons more than once, and they definitely do not respawn after you've cleared them.

For a good portion of the game I did not mark the caves on the map that I had already visited because I was too lazy to do it. The way that I knew I had been to one before was because it would be empty of creatures. I finally started to mark the places I had been about 30-40 hours into the game, never once did I ever return to one of those places and find it repopulated.

There might be some special places that do respawn for whatever reason, but the average cave\dungeon did not.

GhanBuriGhan
January 17th, 2008, 12:51
A quick note about how Morrowind works, from my memory, although its been a while since I modded it and knew all these things by heart.
Yes, Morrowind uses scaling, but differently and not across the bench. Most "random" monsters in dungeons and wilderness are generated from levelled lists, where minimum player level and a probability factor will decide what you encounter (these are the famous "Ninja Monkeys" you can see in the editor). However there are also a lot of monsters that were placed that were not from lists. Cliff racer e.g. (unfortunately!).
Wether a monster resurrects is governed by a simple flag in the editor. Wther this is the case for dungeon monsters, I would have to check.
However in contrast to Oblivion, the stats and equipment of NPCs did NOT scale, and the general variability of difficulty among encountered monsters was larger (e.g. Daedric shrines were dangerous in the beginning, despite having leveled monsters). Thats the main difference. A majority of loot was also from leveled lists in Morrowind, this hasn't changed much, but it seems that again, less unique/non-levelled items were placed in Oblivion.

Zaleukos
January 17th, 2008, 13:41
That makes sense. I cant make much sense of the "respawn" flag in the editor though, as it seems to be tied to the "global" monster entries, and I cant figure out how to see it for individual monster instances (nor for the ninja monkeys):)

EDIT: Looking at the editor it seems like non-respawning Andrano tomb has specified enemies (individual creatures) while Tharys tomb has levelled ninja monkeys. Given that I couldnt find any enemies with the respawn flag set in my quick browse, could it be that the only the list monsters respawn? Btw, most of the cliffracers are from lists containing "cliffracer, cliffracer, cliffracer, diseased cliffracer, blighted cliffracer" from what I can see. Truly diabolical:p

I have been to dozens of caves\tombs\dungeons more than once, and they definitely do not respawn after you've cleared them.

....

There might be some special places that do respawn for whatever reason, but the average cave\dungeon did not.

Well, it's easy enough to check the two locations I listed as respawning, they are close to fast travel. From that little circumstantial testing and my (admittedly not very reliablie) recollection of the game I'm more inclined to believe that it is the special quest-related locations that dont respawn. Or is there something special about Tharys tomb outside Balmora? :)

JDR13
January 17th, 2008, 14:01
Well, it's easy enough to check the two locations I listed as respawning, they are close to fast travel. From that little circumstantial testing and my (admittedly not very reliablie) recollection of the game I'm more inclined to believe that it is the special quest-related locations that dont respawn. Or is there something special about Tharys tomb outside Balmora? :)

Not sure, and I'm not going to reinstall the game right now just to check that. All I know is that the vast majority of those common dungeons do not respawn, at least they didn't in my game. (no mods)

purpleblob
January 18th, 2008, 07:12
Which mods did you end up going with?

LOTS of mods.

Lets see....

mana regeneration, balcony house in balmora, metal queen boutique, better body, better heads, less aggressive animals/monsters... for now.

I really like these better heads and better body. I couldnt stand original graphics. And also no mana regeneration. Balcony house in balmora is handy and also fun. You can decorate house all day if you want. When I get more mod, I'm going to put some slaves in house as well so I can act like a princess (hey, thats what this freedom thing is all about, heh? :P)

I plan to install more mods that allows me to pick a flower not freaking herbs (everytime I see pretty flowers and pick them I get herbs for alchemy instead!), morrowind comes alive or something... more outfit mods, mod that allows me to hire mecernaries... etc!

xSamhainx
January 18th, 2008, 08:45
I heart Morrowind ='.'=

A little drunk, a little sentimental. Thinking I should reinstall and bust out another character, there's still many things I undoubtedly havent seen in the game yet.

Anyway, I might as bust out my old list of semi-useful tips that i wrote way back when I had first beat the game. Still my most personal and beloved character -
Victory At Last - Pointers from a Legend (http://www.rpgdot.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=78453)

JDR13
January 18th, 2008, 09:22
Anyway, I might as bust out my old list of semi-useful tips that i wrote way back when I had first beat the game. Still my most personal and beloved character -
Victory At Last - Pointers from a Legend (http://www.rpgdot.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=78453)

Nice list Sammy, I especially like the tip about the candles.

GhanBuriGhan
January 18th, 2008, 10:15
LOTS of mods.

Lets see....

mana regeneration, balcony house in balmora, metal queen boutique, better body, better heads, less aggressive animals/monsters... for now.

I really like these better heads and better body. I couldnt stand original graphics. And also no mana regeneration. Balcony house in balmora is handy and also fun. You can decorate house all day if you want. When I get more mod, I'm going to put some slaves in house as well so I can act like a princess (hey, thats what this freedom thing is all about, heh? :P)

I plan to install more mods that allows me to pick a flower not freaking herbs (everytime I see pretty flowers and pick them I get herbs for alchemy instead!), morrowind comes alive or something... more outfit mods, mod that allows me to hire mecernaries... etc!

Morrowind comes alive is a must have for sure. The window lights, and ambient sound mods also add a lot of atmosphere. And the script extender mods add some truly stunning stuff as well. I just loved the little mod that allowed me to write in my own journal - what was it called, Journal Expanded?

purpleblob
January 18th, 2008, 14:26
Morrowind comes alive is a must have for sure. The window lights, and ambient sound mods also add a lot of atmosphere. And the script extender mods add some truly stunning stuff as well. I just loved the little mod that allowed me to write in my own journal - what was it called, Journal Expanded?

I think I already have that mod... is there any other mod you can recommend for me?

GhanBuriGhan
January 18th, 2008, 20:01
I think I already have that mod... is there any other mod you can recommend for me?

Everything by me, of course :)
Seriously, It's hard, there are thousands of mods, and by now there must be a lot of new stuff I don't even know. If you are looking for content, I thought Havish, Moons Spawn, STanegau Island, and White Wolf of Lokken (?) were good quest mods back in the day. There is a whole slew of companion mods with good quests, if you are into that. There are a couple of great Stronghold expansions you could look into. The bank mod, carryable bedroll, animal behaviour mod, and the readable signposts, and Less Generic NPC (dialog mod) were also must haves for me.

zahratustra
January 18th, 2008, 23:32
LOL GhanBuriGhan, and here was me thinking that it couldn't possibly be you! :) Purpleblob, don't believe GBG for a second! Here is a man who made a sailing mod and painstakingly removed THOUSANDS of rocks to make seas of MW (or was it Oblivion?) more navigable to ships!
What he doesn't know about Morrowing and Morrowind modding isn't worth knowing! And he is right about the sheer amount of MW mods out there. Modability and mods kept me enjoying this game for close to two years! Pity that Oblivion isn't anywhere near as modder friendly as MW was....

Prime Junta
January 18th, 2008, 23:39
Is there a mod to genocide, nerf, or at least greatly reduce the quantity of cliff racers? I'm seriously considering another run at it, but I cannot bear the idea of having to deal with those ENDLESS amounts of cliff racers. Please?

zahratustra
January 18th, 2008, 23:51
Yes there are (and quite a few at that). Can't remember any names offhand but will try to find out for you.


Edit: here is one on many: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=1385

GhanBuriGhan
January 19th, 2008, 01:32
LOL GhanBuriGhan, and here was me thinking that it couldn't possibly be you! :) Purpleblob, don't believe GBG for a second! Here is a man who made a sailing mod and painstakingly removed THOUSANDS of rocks to make seas of MW (or was it Oblivion?) more navigable to ships!
What he doesn't know about Morrowing and Morrowind modding isn't worth knowing! And he is right about the sheer amount of MW mods out there. Modability and mods kept me enjoying this game for close to two years! Pity that Oblivion isn't anywhere near as modder friendly as MW was....

I think you confused something there - I did make a similar mod, but I never released it (and I only moved a couple dozen rocks for it)! Maybe you were think of fishing academy by MadMax (another good one!)? Anyway, I was not kidding. I might have forgotten more than many ever knew, but that still leaves me rather ignorant today :)

zahratustra
January 19th, 2008, 01:56
Nope, no confusion. I was kidding about "thousands of rocks" and, true, you never released it but you made it available to few people who expressed interest in the mod. I was one of them.

GhanBuriGhan
January 19th, 2008, 03:01
Well, how about that, I had completely forgotten about that! Well, cheers to you amd Morrowind.

purpleblob
January 19th, 2008, 03:02
Is there a mod to genocide, nerf, or at least greatly reduce the quantity of cliff racers? I'm seriously considering another run at it, but I cannot bear the idea of having to deal with those ENDLESS amounts of cliff racers. Please?

Less aggressive creatures or something.. which I already have installed makes cliff racers attack you much, much less. I find it handy.

Prime Junta
January 19th, 2008, 16:21
Thanking you kindly. I'll give it a shot, one of these days.

Loki Hades
January 27th, 2008, 16:00
I like Oblivion for its systems (gameplay and quests, and after the UI mod, its interface), sense of slight realism, but I have to say you can't beat Morrowind in terms of vastness and beauty. If Oblivion had but a single desert, or various temples to raid, I'd probably change that, but it doesn't, it feels lacking in environment. Its effects are better though, I love the environmental changes (miss the ashstorms though), and love so many things in it. Its great to explore but I wanted lycanthropy to be an option (though it wasn't that well implemented, it was still there in Bloodmoon). I still can't get over it though, even with SI, Oblivion feels lacking... Morrowind has this huge place to explore, and the factions are more fun (Dark Brotherhood is fun, but nothing compared to the Morag Tong), it had less leveled content, which Oblivion can have with mods like OOO (though I'm not using it till I have a better connection, as I can't download a new version yet), and I found Morrowind to be varied. If you ask me, wait for the Morroblivion mod to come to its final stages, it allows you to import everything from Morrowind to Oblivion, but its incomplete at the moment, just pushing the land masses, npc and stuff with Oblivion creatures only, and no quests/dialog yet. Wait till its perfected :D Then you can have the best of both worlds.

zahratustra
January 28th, 2008, 01:01
Well, once this mod is out I might have to reinstall Oblivion. My MAJOR gripe with Oblivion is that it's so much less modder friendly than Morrowind was.

Remus
January 28th, 2008, 12:04
I spent a lot of time in Morrowind years ago but Oblivion still left on my possible buying list only. Now that i checked some mods and really impressed and potentially make Oblivion far more enjoyable than in it original version. Probably would pick it up couple months down the road if i could finish other games first...

http://aelius28.googlepages.com/home

kalniel
January 28th, 2008, 21:16
Daggerfall.

But if I had to choose between the two, Oblivion is much closer to Daggerfall so it gets my vote.

purpleblob
January 28th, 2008, 23:52
If you ask me, wait for the Morroblivion mod to come to its final stages, it allows you to import everything from Morrowind to Oblivion, but its incomplete at the moment, just pushing the land masses, npc and stuff with Oblivion creatures only, and no quests/dialog yet. Wait till its perfected :D Then you can have the best of both worlds.

Morroblivion? Sounds interesting. I might give it a go when its perfected. BTW who's making this mod?

xSamhainx
January 29th, 2008, 04:50
wow, I'm in ='.'=

JDR13
January 29th, 2008, 06:14
If you ask me, wait for the Morroblivion mod to come to its final stages, it allows you to import everything from Morrowind to Oblivion, but its incomplete at the moment, just pushing the land masses, npc and stuff with Oblivion creatures only, and no quests/dialog yet. Wait till its perfected :D Then you can have the best of both worlds.


Sounds awesome, but also sounds a little too good to be true. A massive task indeed it must be to attempt to do that, I wish them the best of luck.

Squeek
January 29th, 2008, 07:37
If you ask me, wait for the Morroblivion mod...It just sounds like more Oblivion to me.

Remus
January 29th, 2008, 09:17
I cancelled Dreamfall: The Longest Journey (my local online retailer having trouble getting the game) and so i ordered the Oblivion GOTY edition instead.

Guest
February 3rd, 2008, 10:13
In my opinion:

- Oblivion was allright.
- Morrowind is the best CRPG released in the 2000s.

purpleblob
February 6th, 2008, 07:19
meh, I think its not that bad but its not that interesting either... being a busy person (Im sure you guys all are... but Im impatient as well) I dont like wasting time roaming abt random directions and nothing much happening. My character usually stumble herself in random caves and get ass kicked or get lost and try to find way out forever... Call me boring, but I'd rather go for something more linear with plenty of directions.

xSamhainx
February 6th, 2008, 17:02
That's actually what I liked about MW, the wandering around and stuff, but it does indeed take a long time!

Guest
February 6th, 2008, 17:16
Morrowind is quite propably the PC game that I have spent the most time with.
And I loved every minute of it.

zahratustra
February 6th, 2008, 21:30
Yup, it was like this with me too. Oblivion had hold my interest for maybe a quarter of that time.

Jaz
February 7th, 2008, 07:39
Out of all cRPGs, I spent the most time with Daggerfall (roughly 7 months from start 'til end of main quest) - then came Morrowind, and I spent 18 months with it and its two expansions. Not to mention that I played through the main quest(s) with another character afterwards, and I played my favorite abridged game of 'house-collecting' (i.e., acquiring and decorating all the houses available by natural means) twice after it.
Playing through Oblivion with my first character took me... hmm... maybe a month? I started two other run-throughs with assassin and mage characters, but there I did the guild quests only.

Guest
February 7th, 2008, 07:55
I'm definitely gonna play daggerfall again soon with my dos pc.

xSamhainx
February 7th, 2008, 17:33
now that's where I draw the line, I just cant do Daggerfall. Got a good deal on a used copy, tried it, and after a while was like "why the hell am I playing this!"

Put it on the shelf, maybe I'll fire it up when I'm 70 or something and need to kill like a year

Zaleukos
February 7th, 2008, 17:53
Daggerfall has some pretty annoying bugs on faster systems, especially one where you (inconsistently) wont be able to pick up quest items from the floor. I quit the game due to that.

Does anyone know if that problem persists if running the game in Dosbox? I've had speed issues on a P2-233 with windows 98.

Otherwise it (much like Darklands) suffered a bit from being Elite with Swords. Even if some quests were excellent it breaks immersion to kill the treacherous lord Kavar or retrieve Siegfrieds Tarnhelm more than once...

zahratustra
February 7th, 2008, 21:05
Daggerfall was a great game at the time. I tried to recapture the magic recently and have managed to struggle with it for maybe about half an hour. While I still think that gameplay can stand up to many RPGs released today, game engine and graphics are ancient and very clunky by modern standarts. I'd rather have my memories :)

Guest
February 7th, 2008, 22:25
I played daggerfall on my 300mhz celeron dedicated-dos-gaming-comp in late 2006.
I installed the latest official patches and also some official thing that added more quests or something. I played in pure dos using the no-cd patch. (I always do nocds, I dont like the noise that the old CD-rom drive makes)

I had no problems whatsoever. I played it for weeks and only encountered one major bug, but I just reloaded and the problem was gone. No tech problems or anything like that. And I loved the game and loved playing it. It was my first daggerfall experience too. The graphics were fine.
But then again... I played and finished Might & Magic III last summer and absolutely loved it too.

I did not "finish" the game. I did a ton of quests for the thieves guild and just bought things. I'm gonna play it again soon, it's so much more fun than most games released in 2007 or 2008.

purpleblob
February 8th, 2008, 05:19
I've read someone's daggerfall review and couldnt resist laughing. As far as she was concerned, it was a horrible game. And I cant stand DOS so I think I will pass.. ;)

Here's her review on daggerfall:
http://www.geocities.com/bigorrin/daggerreview.htm

And here's her other CRPG reviews. I actually like her reviews a lot:
http://www.angelfire.com/hero/tjekanefir/crpg.htm

Squeek
February 8th, 2008, 05:25
Daggerfall was cool. It deserved to win a major award. Not sure which one, but major.

woges
February 8th, 2008, 06:13
Ted Peterson's lore should have got an award. I don't think any game's lore has created such interest as what Ted developed for Daggerfall (there were probably other writers on Daggerfall but his name comes to mind).

Jaz
February 8th, 2008, 07:33
When I last replayed Daggerfall in 2004, it was on an old PII (300MHz) machine/w Win 98. No DOSbox involved. I installed the official 20 MB patch that came with my copy of the game and encountered no error apart from the usual bugs (holes in floors etc., nothing that couldn't be remedied by pressing an F key).
The computer suicided after I finished the game, but I finished it (once again).

Guest
February 8th, 2008, 09:48
When I last replayed Daggerfall in 2004, it was on an old PII (300MHz) machine/w Win 98. No DOSbox involved. I installed the official 20 MB patch that came with my copy of the game and encountered no error apart from the usual bugs (holes in floors etc., nothing that couldn't be remedied by pressing an F key).
The computer suicided after I finished the game, but I finished it (once again).

That sounds great! You absolutely need a new oldie pc though :D

Alrik Fassbauer
February 8th, 2008, 16:59
I heard that it shall run fine from within the box called "DOS". ;)

Anyway, you could take a look at the DOSBOX supported games to find it out, and/or into the forums.

txa1265
February 8th, 2008, 17:07
I have recently resurrected my favorite old DOS PC, a HP Omnibook 800CT (it had been on loan to help with a local high school robotics team I had been working with). I have cool stuff like the Ultimate Wizardry Archives, Might & Magic Millennium Collection, etc on there ... need to get Daggerfall on there as well ...

Guest
February 8th, 2008, 18:03
No emulators for me - will not touch them. I want the real thing.

I have recently resurrected my favorite old DOS PC, a HP Omnibook 800CT (it had been on loan to help with a local high school robotics team I had been working with). I have cool stuff like the Ultimate Wizardry Archives, Might & Magic Millennium Collection, etc on there ... need to get Daggerfall on there as well ...

That's great. That's pretty much what I have going on as well!

Jaz
February 8th, 2008, 18:54
That sounds great! You absolutely need a new oldie pc though :DTrue. I'm stuck in my second replay of Battlespire since the old old machine burned (savegames are stashed away on the server, though, so no problems there), and my new old machine (i.e., the current rig) is still too new to run Battlespire.

txa1265
February 8th, 2008, 19:48
No emulators for me - will not touch them. I want the real thing.
I have no issue with DOSBox, I just want the game to work!
That's great. That's pretty much what I have going on as well!
The HP Omnibooks were such great engineering ... like my beloved HP200LX organizer. It is why they were an 'instant buy' for me for so many years ...
http://slottet.mine.nu/~bollman/datorer/omni800.jpg

zahratustra
February 9th, 2008, 00:16
Thanks for the link to Lora's CRPG Reviews purpleblob. Good read! She is quite hilarious at times but her reviews of Witcher and Black & White are especially entertaining :)

purpleblob
February 9th, 2008, 12:44
your welcome. I found it funny myself :) she's got good points too.

zahratustra
February 9th, 2008, 14:00
She does indeed!