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-   -   Baldur's Gate 3 - Early Access Review @ PC Gamer (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46062)

Arkadia7 October 11th, 2020 12:19

That does suck re: stuck with the same party characters after the first chapter. I also don't like what I'm reading about the available party characters, it sounds like most of them are evil and hateful in terms of their attitudes…yuck. Why would I want to be forced to play with evil and loathsome characters in my party. What if I want to play a good aligned, cheerful and likable party of characters, guess I'm out of luck!

I get there will probably be more added characters available at some point, and perhaps some will actually be likable and good alignment, but it appears Larian decided to go "super-dark and grim" in the story line, and everyone is evil and the world is just in such a hateful state. They might have gone way overboard in this angle, sounds like. Oh boy, I also am starting to lose much of my interest in the game.

Ripper October 11th, 2020 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkadia7 (Post 1061617570)
it appears Larian decided to go "super-dark and grim" in the story line, and everyone is evil and the world is just in such a hateful state. They might have gone way overboard in this angle, sounds like. Oh boy, I also am starting to lose much of my interest in the game.

I do wonder if they decided that the antidote to their reputation for too much of a lame humorous tone is grimdark horror.

Hastar October 11th, 2020 13:13

If you have Mind Flayers and Githyanki it's going to be dark. If you think about it, Forgotten Realms would be a very dark and evil land.

Ripper October 11th, 2020 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hastar (Post 1061617576)
If you have Mind Flayers and Githyanki it's going to be dark. If you think about it, Forgotten Realms would be a very dark and evil land.

Definitely that Underdark stuff can be very grim. I've got an old DnD sourcebook somewhere all about the most evil and demonic stuff, with a warning on it. :p

But I think there's a choice to be made about which aspects of FR to focus on, and it could be made much lighter or darker. For me, grimdark horror as a dominant tone isn't what I'd want in a BG game.

Morrandir October 11th, 2020 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hastar (Post 1061617576)
If you have Mind Flayers and Githyanki it's going to be dark. If you think about it, Forgotten Realms would be a very dark and evil land.

That still isn't a reason why the companions should be evil.

Is this confirmed? Are the alignments of the companions known?

Pladio October 11th, 2020 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrandir (Post 1061617578)
That still isn't a reason why the companions should be evil.

Is this confirmed? Are the alignments of the companions known?

None of them seemed evil to me..
Selfish maybe but evil, no.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

sakichop October 11th, 2020 15:35

I donít feel as if my companions are evil. They definitely donít all have the same beliefs as every decision i make is met with approval and disapproval. I think in most games itís very easy to know what is the good choice and which companions are good and will like your decision. In BG3 itís more ambiguous. Iíve made what I though was the good choice and had someone approve then the next time I make a good choice the same person disapproved. I like that it makes me feel like thereís many factor going in to their choice rather than just alignment.

Also given the circumstances itís totally understandable that they arenít all cheery and eager to help everyone with a problem. They have a ticking time bomb in their heads. I wouldnít want to stop and help people either. Iíd want it out ASAP.

Iím only 7 hours in but Iím really enjoying it. I really like the dice rolls in conversations. Not being able to just railroad conversations in to the outcome I want makes it feel more realistic. Failing Rolls can be brutal.

The combat is enjoyable and Iím glad they didnít go overboard with elemental stuff. Sneaking is great and I like that I get a dice roll when in a vision cone instead of being automatically detected. Itís actually nice to have misses in combat. Sound weird, I know but most games Ive been playing lately missing isnít really a thing.

Iíd say the game is in a pretty good state for EA. Iíve had no crashes or bugs and the game has run smoothly. I do notice a lot of graphical glitches like clipping or abrupt scene changes.

Things I hope improve would be:

Leveling up, not sure if its EA or 5th edition rules but there doesnít seem to be many options when leveling up.

Exploration, Iíve only found one secret room and exploration as a whole hasnít been very rewarding.

2 other things but Iím sure they wont change as they were the sam in DOS. The camera, allow it to look forward more. I know itís possible because I modded it in in the DOS games. The linking system is tedious. I much prefer the lasso system in the BG games. Also unless I missed it thereís still no link all or unlink all which I had to mod in in the DOS games.

Small gripes aside I like what Larian has done here and will probably play mor eEA than I had planned.

Morrandir October 11th, 2020 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pladio (Post 1061617581)
None of them seemed evil to me..
Selfish maybe but evil, no.

Ah, so the companions' alignments are hidden?

wolfgrimdark October 11th, 2020 17:21

The companions are not all evil. Gale and Wyll seem to be on the CG/NG side of the fence. The rouge may seem evil but I have been with him long enough to know he actually isn't the standard evil type either.

People pigeonholing characters into black and white alignemnts here. Unusual since I know many have expressed how much they dislike BW characters Ö and now we have some gray ones .. the complaining begins.

I have zero problem with setting on a character group after the first act. This could be do to story reasons and maybe provides a way to do something far more in-depth with characters. They might have some really cool stuff planned.

So odd that I was rather negative about this game and yet now I keep defending it :P lol.

But more interested in just enjoying things these days and curious to see how it plays out. I think it is a pretty cool idea myself assuming they have some reason for doing it.

Seriously - I doubt they would something like that unless they had some good reason for it. Why annoy certain players for zero reason? Instead of looking at this as a negative I prefer to see it as a positive - something that has potential for some cool follower interaction and plot lines perhaps.

EDIT: I read Akradias post and I can say with confidence that is not the case. They are not all evil complaining whining hateful companions at all.

So many of the previews are complete and utter shit (sorry for the language but its true). It is so clear to me, now that I have spent time playing, learning the controls, that people previewing did not spend time getting to know the followers or game mechanics.

The worse being that Ars Technia - just about the most inaccurate and misinformed review I have ever read.

First the die rolls are hard but that is because not everything is pushed to the characters favor like in other games. Having played a lot more the rolls are well done and I get plenty of good rolls as well as bad.

Companions - I don't want to spoil things but people shouldn't make them BW. There are layers to their alignment. Nor are they all hateful by any means. Even Shadowheart, who was mentioned as being so hateful, can be nice and even feel gratitude and companionship.

The other annoyance is one article said (paraphrase) "what is so horrible about the combat is that while the enemy can spread themselves out all over the battlefield, you and your team are stuck together meaning the enemy is always getting you with AOE spells"

At first I thought so too till I realized how stupid I had been. Granted if you get into combat mode suddenly you have to break up during combat, but so does the enemy in some cases.

What I learned this weekend is to break up my group if I know a battle is coming. I then use invisibility, stealth, grease (spell/bomb), cloud fog, and other things to break up my party and slow down the enemy. Battles got a lot easier to manage this way.

Also the rogues sneak attack is the most powerful ability I have seen in my own game, often crippling or even a few one-shot kills (especially on a 20). I often lead with the rogue - either with a sneak attack or in stealth, throw a grease bomb then maybe a fire bomb. Sometimes water and then mage uses electricity.

Pladio October 11th, 2020 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrandir (Post 1061617584)
Ah, so the companions' alignments are hidden?

Yeah. Even your character doesn't have an alignment. Not sure if this is a 5th edition thing?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Pladio October 11th, 2020 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark (Post 1061617586)
The companions are not all evil. Gale and Wyll seem to be on the CG/NG side of the fence. The rouge may seem evil but I have been with him long enough to know he actually isn't the standard evil type either.



People pigeonholing characters into black and white alignemnts here. Unusual since I know many have expressed how much they dislike BW characters Ö and now we have some gray ones .. the complaining begins.



I have zero problem with setting on a character group after the first act. This could be do to story reasons and maybe provides a way to do something far more in-depth with characters. They might have some really cool stuff planned.



So odd that I was rather negative about this game and yet now I keep defending it [emoji14] lol.



But more interested in just enjoying things these days and curious to see how it plays out. I think it is a pretty cool idea myself assuming they have some reason for doing it.



Seriously - I doubt they would something like that unless they had some good reason for it. Why annoy certain players for zero reason? Instead of looking at this as a negative I prefer to see it as a positive - something that has potential for some cool follower interaction and plot lines perhaps.



EDIT: I read Akradias post and I can say with confidence that is not the case. They are not all evil complaining whining hateful companions at all.



So many of the previews are complete and utter shit (sorry for the language but its true). It is so clear to me, now that I have spent time playing, learning the controls, that people previewing did not spend time getting to know the followers or game mechanics.



The worse being that Ars Technia - just about the most inaccurate and misinformed review I have ever read.



First the die rolls are hard but that is because not everything is pushed to the characters favor like in other games. Having played a lot more the rolls are well done and I get plenty of good rolls as well as bad.



Companions - I don't want to spoil things but people shouldn't make them BW. There are layers to their alignment. Nor are they all hateful by any means. Even Shadowheart, who was mentioned as being so hateful, can be nice and even feel gratitude and companionship.



The other annoyance is one article said (paraphrase) "what is so horrible about the combat is that while the enemy can spread themselves out all over the battlefield, you and your team are stuck together meaning the enemy is always getting you with AOE spells"



At first I thought so too till I realized how stupid I had been. Granted if you get into combat mode suddenly you have to break up during combat, but so does the enemy in some cases.



What I learned this weekend is to break up my group if I know a battle is coming. I then use invisibility, stealth, grease (spell/bomb), cloud fog, and other things to break up my party and slow down the enemy. Battles got a lot easier to manage this way.



Also the rogues sneak attack is the most powerful ability I have seen in my own game, often crippling or even a few one-shot kills (especially on a 20). I often lead with the rogue - either with a sneak attack or in stealth, throw a grease bomb then maybe a fire bomb. Sometimes water and then mage uses electricity.

Yeah I might make a rogue myself once I play the game for real. Looks like a lot of fun. I am not a big fan of the rogue companion at this point and I do like the wizard, which is my main character at the moment. So I think I'll complete act1 with this party and wait for the next bug update before delving in again.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

wolfgrimdark October 11th, 2020 17:58

I am doing the first run with a Warlock (Elder God) Tiefling of Zariel, generally good in character.

I also have a Seldarian Drow ranger I have started and a half-wood-elf rogue I am getting familiar with.

gabrielarantest October 11th, 2020 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061617565)
HmmÖ No day/night cycle, a locked party of four characters, and Larian writing? Can't say I'm feeling all that optimistic for a BG experience.

The game is awesome, believe me. The writing is good, mature, and sometimes funny.

You only see the night during camping, which is not great, but honestly, it does not impact the game that much, you will visit some dark places anyways. And the way that they implemented dark places is just awesome -- I will just say this: you will need the light spell and darkvision!

The locked party does not sound that great as well. But personally, it doesn't bother me that much, because once I am set with a party I tend to not change it for the rest of the game in every cRPG that I have played. And it may make some sense in the story (I won't explain that further because that may spoil the game for ya).

Ripper October 11th, 2020 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielarantest (Post 1061617594)
The game is awesome, believe me. The writing is good, mature, and sometimes funny.

You only see the night during camping, which is not great, but honestly, it does not impact the game that much, you will visit some dark places anyways. And the way that they implemented dark places is just awesome -- I will just say this: you will need the light spell and darkvision!

The locked party does not sound that great as well. But personally, it doesn't bother me that much, because once I am set with a party I tend to not change it for the rest of the game in every cRPG that I have played. And it may make some sense in the story (I won't explain that further because that may spoil the game for ya).

Cheers, but no need to defend it. I'm sure I'll give a go in due course, and give it a chance for what it is. Just sounded like a package of things that undermine the Baldur's Gate-iness, in my eyes. The atmospherics, including day/night, were always a big thing for me, as was recruiting NPCs and changing around the party. So we'll see.

With regard to Larian, I do admire a lot of their technical and artistic work, and also their determination to make proper RPGs, but unfortunately I often find myself at odds with their taste and judgement, and never seem to fully enjoy their games as much as others seem to.

gabrielarantest October 11th, 2020 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkadia7 (Post 1061617570)
I also don't like what I'm reading about the available party characters, it sounds like most of them are evil and hateful in terms of their attitudesÖyuck. Why would I want to be forced to play with evil and loathsome characters in my party.

That is just not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pladio (Post 1061617588)
Yeah. Even your character doesn't have an alignment. Not sure if this is a 5th edition thing?

D&D5th has alignments but it includes an option of "unaligned" for creatures that operate on instinct. Which is not the case of the companions. So yeah, I guess the alignments are hidden. And I think I know the reason for it: appearances can be deceptive. And they use that well in the game.

Pladio October 11th, 2020 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061617595)
Cheers, but no need to defend it. I'm sure I'll give a go in due course, and give it a chance for what it is. Just sounded like a package of things that undermine the Baldur's Gate-iness, in my eyes. The atmospherics, including day/night, were always a big thing for me, as was recruiting NPCs and changing around the party. So we'll see.



With regard to Larian, I do admire a lot of their technical and artistic work, and also their determination to make proper RPGs, but unfortunately I often find myself at odds with their taste and judgement, and never seem to fully enjoy their games as much as others seem to.

I never got into divinity games but find myself really enjoying this one, so I'd suggest giving it a go.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

gabrielarantest October 11th, 2020 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061617595)
Just sounded like a package of things that undermine the Baldur's Gate-iness, in my eyes.

I will be honest: do not expect some sort of continuation to the BG saga or characteristics of the older BG (aside from taking place in the Sword Coast). If you do you won't enjoy the game as it is. The game is not RtwP, your party is smaller, the story is different, it's not AD&D, and so onÖ

In terms of marketing, naming the game BGIII was a good strategy, but the problem is that players are comparing the games and they are ending up disappointed. For me, I am glad that they did the game as they did because it is great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061617595)
With regard to Larian, I do admire a lot of their technical and artistic work, and also their determination to make proper RPGs, but unfortunately I often find myself at odds with their taste and judgement, and never seem to fully enjoy their games as much as others seem to.

I don't like the taste and tone of the D:OS as well. I completed it but I didn't like it, so much that I haven't played the second yet. But you will find that the tone of BG3 is very different from the D:OS.

Zogar Sag October 11th, 2020 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrandir (Post 1061617578)
That still isn't a reason why the companions should be evil.

Is this confirmed? Are the alignments of the companions known?

I read somewhere (says it was posted by Larian) that evil companions and evil play-through are encouraged in EA for testing purpose, because mostly not that many people tend to play evil

JDR13 October 11th, 2020 19:20

The companion's alignments aren't a big deal to me as long as they're not constantly thrown in my face. Not being able to change party members after the first chapter though is a huge letdown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiddenX (Post 1061617566)
At some point after Fort Joy you have to choose your permanent party setup in D:OS 2 as well.

You can still recruit mercenaries and swap party members for them anytime you want.

sakichop October 11th, 2020 20:04

Anyone find a way to delay your characters turn so they pass and then attack at the end of the initiative queue?


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