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-   -   Not getting the excitement (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25323)

crpgnut August 20th, 2014 17:51

Not getting the excitement
 
I find the combat extremely tedious and it kills a lot of my enjoyment. Also, the lack of weapon and armor choices is extreme. This game feels like an indie made for $50,000 to me. I've been letting Bones kill everything while I just wander around once they lose aggro on me. I grabbed that item that Joxer mentions in the spoiler thread on fog island and wandered around there a bit, but I'm heading back to the Crab Coast now. After I finish off exploring it, I'll try to go get Crystal Magic in Tyranis. If magic isn't much better than melee, this will be another PB game that ends up on the shelf.

Exploration is just wonderful in the game, but I can't seem to use 90% of the loot I find until later. I haven't found a locked chest yet that I can open as the game seems to expect all of your stats to be in the 50's range and so you're supposed the spend the first 30 hours of the game doing boring melee. Not for me; at all. I've never been a button masher. I like to kill from stealth; impossible in the game as far as I can tell. Ranged weapons have a range of like 10 feet. I haven't found a longbow, crossbow or rifle that allows for distance killing. The game should give you all 3 ways of killing right in the beginning. Give me a magic missile spell that I can spam instead of playing whack a mole. Gonna visit the mages and see if I can find a fun way to fight. If not, time to uninstall and move on.

Maylander August 20th, 2014 18:59

Finding a decent musket for ranged attacks is not difficult. Every major island has vendors that sell those. Going straight to a DLC island with only fighting is bound to limit you in quite a few ways. Yes, you do get 10% more XP, but I would recommend going there after you join a faction.

I still recommend the following:
Crab Coast -> Join a faction -> Fog Island

Joining a faction is essential, as you get all the neat skills and spells from them. Until then, you're stuck with rather basic stuff. Unlike previous PB games, you gain nothing by holding back on joining a faction.

crpgnut August 20th, 2014 19:53

Can you join more than one? I want all the magics :) I'll finish Crab Coast and head straight to magic land. Can you stay at ranged easily? I don't mind Bones running in unless he's going to take collateral damage once I get me some cystals. I've noticed the merchant on fog island sold a lot of taxidermy type stuff. Since I didn't have much cash, I didn't but any but I got the bone saw that gives me two of those skills.

Maylander August 20th, 2014 22:12

1) No, you can only join one faction. For a "pure mage" type of character, your best bet is the Mages. I'd start with the fire spell, which is also what Marcusio or whatever recommends, in addition to healing and rain of fire. You'll get there. Very few things are resistant to fire, and none on the mage island if I remember correctly.
2) You can't really stay at range as a Mage. Their basic attack spell has a fairly short range, so I recommend charging the spells a bit when casting, similar to how power attacks work (hold down the left mouse button; letting go will trigger the cast). Even a hint of charging will add a knock back effect to the spell. The third attack in a combo automatically knocks back though, which is worth knowing.
3) Bones is immune to all of your AoE damage, so just blast away with rain of fire and what not. Keep in mind that non-companions are not immune, so don't fire up some massive spell in the middle of town.
4) Just learn the skills you don't have access to through the bone saw from a Hunter, and you'll never have to worry about buying it from a vendor. It's a pretty good investment, even if you don't get it right away.

joxer August 20th, 2014 22:31

Took mages myself.

1. The starter offensive spell is irrelevant, pick any. But do take telekinesis, it's essential just like in R2. This of course means Maylander is right. Partially. Fog Island first, then go join your "guild". As you'll kiss any dev who coded telekinesis in.
2-4. Dunno.
5. Focus? Q key? Um… Who needs that. As I've said, take telekinesis (called Wind Hand).

For "tedious" combat I said previously, just pump your attributes and unlock blade dancer skill, nothing can stop you then except shadow guardian OP combos when you're still squishy, and even he dies fast later. I'm now in chapter 3 and still use the sword - the only offensive spell I pull when 5-6 of mobs attack me at the same time is rain of fire. Fights end fast.

Maylander August 20th, 2014 22:47

There's really no point in going with swords if you want to play as a pure Mage. The damage output is similar once you've put a few points Magic. Also, the starter spell is not actually irrelevant, as there are quite a few ice resistant monsters on the mage island, which will make a pure mage rather useless. Lightning and Fire will both work though, but Fire works best as various water creatures are vulnerable to it, leading to extremely high damage.

PS. Pretty sure the TK spell is given to you for free not long after you join them. You'll get it when getting a quest.

joxer August 20th, 2014 22:53

I'm not sure if he wants to play pure mage. I definetly didn't want that.

In fact I got to the point of faction choosing (everything else solved), so tried mages - and found out you get spammable AoE fire spell, healing (now this one would be perfect if early!) and telekinesis so I remained a mage. That third spell renders item Q detection of all three factions irrelevant.
Dunno what other two factions get exactly, but summoning a sidekick from demon hunters is something I don't need in this game and just can't see me flying everywhere as a voodoo parrot… Not saying it wouldn't be fun, on some replay I'll pick another faction. :D

Maylander August 20th, 2014 23:09

Demon Hunters also get healing and TK actually. No rain of fire though, but more buff type spells such as attack speed, higher defenses etc.

It's easy to check them out, just use the one-time runes you have under magic (the red and black ones are Demon Hunter spells, such as Demon Blade and Runeskin). The orange ones belong to the Pirates.

DPB August 20th, 2014 23:57

Voodoo Pirates can get a telekinesis glove too, though I'm not sure they have any healing spells. The Voodoo spells are certainly a lot more useful than Risen 2's scepters.

JDR13 August 21st, 2014 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1061268964)
I find the combat extremely tedious and it kills a lot of my enjoyment. Also, the lack of weapon and armor choices is extreme. This game feels like an indie made for $50,000 to me. I've been letting Bones kill everything while I just wander around once they lose aggro on me. I grabbed that item that Joxer mentions in the spoiler thread on fog island and wandered around there a bit, but I'm heading back to the Crab Coast now. After I finish off exploring it, I'll try to go get Crystal Magic in Tyranis. If magic isn't much better than melee, this will be another PB game that ends up on the shelf.

Exploration is just wonderful in the game, but I can't seem to use 90% of the loot I find until later. I haven't found a locked chest yet that I can open as the game seems to expect all of your stats to be in the 50's range and so you're supposed the spend the first 30 hours of the game doing boring melee. Not for me; at all. I've never been a button masher. I like to kill from stealth; impossible in the game as far as I can tell. Ranged weapons have a range of like 10 feet. I haven't found a longbow, crossbow or rifle that allows for distance killing. The game should give you all 3 ways of killing right in the beginning. Give me a magic missile spell that I can spam instead of playing whack a mole. Gonna visit the mages and see if I can find a fun way to fight. If not, time to uninstall and move on.

You don't want a button masher, but you want to be able to spam ranged attacks? In other words, you want to be able to mash buttons without taking damage. ;)

Lack of weapon and armor choices? I agree there aren't a lot of choices for armor, but there are a lot of weapons. You just have to find them.

It sounds to me like you're simply used to games that throw a lot of loot your way right from the beginning. PB titles don't do that.

wolfing August 21st, 2014 01:09

I want to join a magic faction where I don't ever ever have to swing a weapon, which one is the closest to that?

JDR13 August 21st, 2014 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfing (Post 1061269036)
I want to join a magic faction where I don't ever ever have to swing a weapon, which one is the closest to that?

The Guardians. (Taranis)

crpgnut August 21st, 2014 05:12

You'll have to swing a weapon on Crab Coast enough to get sick of it, but I'm at the mages now but I haven't had anyone agree to train me in spells yet. I've talked to Marcusio and Magnus but I guess I have to quest for the mages first. Sounds like I need to visit the mines on that island. I'm just seeing what I can steal w/o getting caught or losing soul points. Money seems extremely tight. I was trying to raise dexterity/lockpicking as Maylander suggested, but it takes 25,000 xp to get to 50 lockpicking which is just ridiculous. That's like 2 1/2 islands of creature kills. It's amazing that you get to swing a sword for free but any other combat requires questing or a ton of exploration to get. Give me spells for free and make me pay to train in sword.

JDR13 August 21st, 2014 05:55

Don't worry about soul points. They're extremely easy to gain back later. In fact, it's actually easier to gain soul points than it is to lose them.

You don't need 50 in lockpicking before you join a faction. Especially if you're going to be a mage because you'll be able to open chests with magic.

Maylander August 21st, 2014 11:47

Well, sort of. Yes, you can use magic to open chests, but it relies on the "Crystal Magic" skill, which is a bit harder to boost than Lockpicking. Keep in mind that Lockpicking can be boosted both by getting skills from trainers, getting more Dexterity and by equipping various items. Getting to 100+ Lockpicking, and thus being able to open almost all chests in the game, is really not that hard. It basically just means getting to 50ish and then using skills and items to go the rest of the way.

Also, you'll get loads of XP, so I really wouldn't worry too much about that. You'll probably get both Magic and Dexterity to 50+ by the end of the island you're now on (if those are the stats you're going for). Keep in mind that taking them beyond 60 is not worth it, as you can go the rest of the way with permanent potions later on.

Edit: And yes, do the mine quest. You'll come across a few semi-hard fights during it, but it does indeed lead to magic.

Edit 2: And after you get magic, get it up to 25-30 fairly fast, as the costs are very low at that point. Then get the first +10 Crystal Magic skill from one of the trainers. That'll help your damage quite a bit.

crpgnut August 21st, 2014 14:41

Thanks guys. I'm plugging away at it and I'll do as suggested. I'm going to finish a PB game one of these days; maybe it'll be Risen 3. I really haven't used any xp yet, except for one skill that needed 20 in a couple things. I've got about 14,000 glory saved up, but that doesn't get me 50 lockpicking. I've got a 2nd meatshield on Tyrannosaurus Isle, but I'm not sure if the ankle biter is any good.

joxer August 21st, 2014 14:47

crpgnut, wait! I mentioned sword dancer skill for us who love to mix "swords and sorcery". ;)
Try to get as soon as possible (IIRC Mercurio trains it) spell dancer skill. If that's not being unstoppable, dunno what is.

You can train lockpicking 3 times (each +10) at various trainers, but it depends on your corresponding attribute so you probably won't go for the third one (attribute requirement 90). So the attribute will be 60 but your lockpicking after two trainings will be 80. Add different equipable loot to it, jewelry to be precise, and probably each with +10 on lockpicking, it'll be 110 (3x10=30 +80=110) before you even realize.

I also suggest and I bet Maylander will agree not to use glory on an attribute above 60, but instead learn potion making, make permanent +5 pots and use those. The attributes cap is 105, if I'm right you find a total of 10 plants for permapots (10*5=50) so if you miss one or two plants somewhere, it's not a disaster. ;)
And now I'm thinking maybe to replay the game and make a map for these plants on each island…

The highest number on a lock in the game is 120 (at least before chapter 4). Some chests cannot be lockpicked but need a proper key to open them.

Maylander August 21st, 2014 20:27

Indeed, no lock is higher than 120 and no pickpocket is higher than 120. Also, don't worry about the 120 ones. You'll get there easily with permanent dexterity potions later on.

crpgnut August 25th, 2014 05:44

I'm still plugging away at the game. It's not an award winner for me, but it's solid. I play slow so I'm about 45 hours in after 3 places: Crab, Mages, Thieves. There is so much hidden loot if you're super patient that it's almost unreal. Jump as high as you can, save your game, and then fly around as a parrot in every direction. You're bound to find dozens of little pockets of treasure.

Maylander August 25th, 2014 12:38

Yeah, it's part of the magic for me. I like that such creative exploration is rewarded.

What style of combat are you using? Pure magic, magic + melee or magic + ranged?

joxer August 25th, 2014 13:40

crpgnut, I'm telling you so much fun with exploration I didn't have for years.
Okay in Dishonored I did, but definetly not this much.

Took me 72 hours to finish the game where I tried to explore just about every possible spot and NPC - after that when I returned to check things (for suspected bug threads, item questions and etc) found even more stuff I've missed, believe it or not.
And that's the reason I'm replaying it instantly (paralelly with KB4 though).

I'm not saying the game is a masterpiece, but on the point of exploration it delivered!

booboo August 25th, 2014 14:03

Exploration is indeed fun - but the number of 'intricate lock' chests is not. If I kill a powerful monster, I expect to get loot - and good loot. I shouldn't have to learn uber lock picking to get my reward. Surely if you explore, finding chests etc should reward that? And the fact that you can't bash them makes it more frustrting. I have basic lock-picking, but I reckon 90% of chest require more.

joxer August 25th, 2014 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by booboo (Post 1061269849)
I shouldn't have to learn uber lock picking to get my reward.

Of yourse you shouldn't!

As I've said in one of previous posts, improve dexterity as fast as possible to 60 and stop there.
Train two levels of lockpicking, it's not utterly expensive and will up it on 80. Don't bother with mastery, it adds 10 more, but you need to have base attribute of 90 for it. Besides when you up dexteritiy to 105 with permapots, what use would you have from lockpicking 135 when most difficult locks are 120?

In the meantime you'll find jewelry that improves lockpicking +10 just about anywhere, which means you'll have 110 lockpicking in no time. Those things you'll just sell after maxing dexterity.
Yes you'll have to return for some chests, so what.

EDIT:
Uggh, this now looks totally… Crappy. I'll try to make it better.

Each point in dexterity means also a point in your lockpicking.
So you start with 10 dexterity which also means 10 lockpicking.
When you boost your dexterity with glory on 60, that means you'll also have 60 in lockpicking.

In the meantime you can train lockpicking skill three times. Each time you get +10 on lockpicking skill. The third time you need to have dexterity on 90. Which means to be able to open all locks all you need is dexterity 90 and all three levels of lockpicking trained (90+30=120).
But there is no reason to go past 60 in dexterity nor to train lockpicking more than two times because you can equip three items with different skill bonuses on you. Which means from just jewelry you can get +30 lockpicking bonus. And later you'll have potions that improve dexterity +5.
Hopefully it is now more understandable.

crpgnut September 2nd, 2014 21:08

I haven't found the lockpicking items yet, but I've not really looked hard. You're going to/already have write down where all the important 90+ chests are so I haven't really worried about it. I use rust instead of dexterity anyway and I can probably get Crystal Magic over 100 if I try. I know I have 60,000-ish in unused glory so that should bump it up a little. I think my rust is 95 atm and that includes jewelry and the cadet hat.

joxer September 2nd, 2014 21:20

You mean chests worth returning for (recipes, schematics, best weapons)?
Sure, I'm writing them down even if the difficulty is just 10.
Chests with just cash or random to-sell loot I'm skipping. There are even 120 difficulty chests with jewelry, ore or mediocre weapons.

Ovenall September 3rd, 2014 00:40

How do you make potions? Is there a lab or bench? Or can you make them anywhere? How does it work?

joxer September 3rd, 2014 00:47

You can cook them in a cauldron or mix on a laboratory table.
But first you need to train "brew potions" skill.
Of course, for anything you want to make, you need to have a recipe in your inventory.

Once you get the big ship, you'll have apparatus needed for any crafting in the deck below. Till then you may use any cauldron or laboratory elsewhere (in Kila natives' village for example, or in mages' camp basement).

HiddenX September 3rd, 2014 00:49

There are several workbenches for crafting, alchemy, voodoo, etc.

Ovenall September 3rd, 2014 01:07

Thanks. I just got the brew training. Don't have any recipes though.

joxer September 3rd, 2014 01:17

Steal, loot or buy some. ;)
Till then, make sure you pick every useful herb you see. You'll need them.

crpgnut September 5th, 2014 01:28

I got crystal magic at 145, so I'll be opening all the chests from now on. I've only fully explored Taranis, but I'm pretty much done with Calador and Crab Coast, but I haven't done the side islands and those generally have some good loot. I haven't found the recipe for Magic yet and I just used the ranged and melee potions even though my skill was only 10. Didn't see the need to bump those up as I don't use them. I might eventually raise melee enough to take Battle Mage.

Pladio September 5th, 2014 08:21

For someone not getting the excitement , you're playing a lot of it….

crpgnut September 5th, 2014 17:10

Yep, found my 2nd wind thanks to a couple of tips from Joxer and Maylander. I've been on all the islands now except Kila. Might finish the game this weekend, then I'll move to either the PoE beta or perhaps the early access build of Heretic Kingdoms. I see you login into the game most nights as well, or is that Daijer….

Pladio September 5th, 2014 18:32

You see me login to other games…
:)

I was playing X-Com a few weeks ago for a while. Then I did some Total War and then some Age of Decadence and Europa Universalis 4.

Ovenall September 6th, 2014 00:24

Probably my favorite PB game. It's so… weird. Bones is a complete freak. The voice over work is… weird. Weird is the word that keeps popping into my head about this game.

Almost every NPC is a middle-aged balding guy. You are invincible when rolling, and you can roll/dodge infinitely.

"Tem-PULL"
"I'm going to make a hat out of your skin"

Weird. But fun.

joxer September 6th, 2014 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ovenall (Post 1061272289)
"I'm going to make a hat out of your skin"

And you're of course fighting skeletons. :D

Dajjer September 6th, 2014 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1061272194)
Yep, found my 2nd wind thanks to a couple of tips from Joxer and Maylander. I've been on all the islands now except Kila. Might finish the game this weekend, then I'll move to either the PoE beta or perhaps the early access build of Heretic Kingdoms. I see you login into the game most nights as well, or is that Daijer….

I have played just about every night. And about to resume in about half an hour. I just beat the Iron Gollum Boss monster in Tarania. And Now I am preparing for what appears to be the final battle.

I kinda like this game but the Boss Monster fights are not enduring me to this game. It's not as bad as Risen 1, but all this arcardy stuff is annoying. In particular because the game engine is not good at handling those type of sequences.

When the game is acting like a regular RPG, the game ranks in the High 8 range in particular since each faction has magic, which is cool and you have flying. But when the game tries to go into all its mini games and arcardy boss fight sequences . . . well, I can see why folks are not getting the excitement.

JDR13 September 6th, 2014 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajjer (Post 1061272321)
I just beat the Iron Gollum Boss monster in Tarania. And Now I am preparing for what appears to be the final battle.

You still have longer to go than you're probably expecting. :)

Alistair September 6th, 2014 18:33

The one thing weirdness I remember was the non-lethal fights that the game would push you into now and again - ie duels. I could live with whacking someone with a sword in a non-lethal fight… but then the finishing moves where you run them through and slash their throats? That seems a bit off :)

Grangokhan September 7th, 2014 16:54

Angy Joe posted a video that is completely merciless on Risen 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oXXA3WRNX4


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