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-   -   RPG Combat System Without Randomness (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43302)

NikitaSadkov July 14th, 2019 22:01

RPG Combat System Without Randomness
 
What RPGs don't use RNG (random number generator) in their damage/to-hit calculation? I.e. there is no dice thrown, and stats applied explicitly.

I personally can name only Chess and Starcraft, but these are obviously non-RPGs :D

As a gamedev I devised such system myself, good enough to simulate the one in Master of Magic or Age of Wonders combate without RNG, , but it is a trade secret until my game gets released :D

joxer July 15th, 2019 12:30

I never care about combat execution so can't remember all I saw in the past, but the most recent one I played without rng dmg during combat is Grimshade.

NikitaSadkov July 15th, 2019 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061575542)
I never care about combat execution so can't remember all I saw in the past, but the most recent one I played without rng dmg during combat is Grimshade.

Does Grimshade have a to-hit chance? I found scoring-the-hit part the hardest to make deterministic, without dumbing down the gameplay. The to-hit RNG efficiently abstracts and simulates the complexity of the underlying physics system: character dexterity, concentration and eyesight.

For example, with RNG it is very easy to implement Blind spells - just reduce the to hit chance. But with deterministic combat implementing blind is rather tricking, requiring further removing layers of abstraction and implementing parts of underlying physics processes, resulting in the subtle implementation of RNG itself, just like a sufficiently complicated physics engine can simulate the throw of a dice or a coin, despite being deterministic.

Card games are very good at abstracting the nature solely due to RNG, but imagine a card game without RNG.

The subject is rather involved and studied in chaos theory and cellular automata theory.

ChienAboyeur July 15th, 2019 12:50

Eisenwald should be close to the depiction. Flat damage.

Ripper July 15th, 2019 13:49

https://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons…thisisbait.jpg

Carnifex July 15th, 2019 15:35

One of the few times that I've comprehended what Chien has said, Eisenwald should fit this bill, and is a great game to boot. It's such a great game, you really cannot go wrong with giving it a try.

Eye July 15th, 2019 15:49

@Ripper Yes, you may be right. But me, I was not convinced yet.

Letís see how it evolves - no matter his number of posts.

Ripper July 15th, 2019 16:21

OK. But here's my tip for members that aren't familiar with this sort of thing.

The idea of this type is not necessarily to start trouble, but more to see if he can hook sincere but naive people into engaging with absurdity, starting somewhat subtle, and building up. "Ho ho - can't believe you engaged with this - let's see how far we can take it. How clever I am, and what simpletons you are." We're beginning this time with some vaguely plausible-sounding pseudo-scientific claptrap. I'd highly recommend not engaging at all.

I'd be curious to do an IP check against AppleIntimidation - very similar sort of game, though he might know enough to cover his IP.

vurt July 15th, 2019 17:05

I've never really given it too much thought, where is the problem exactly?

In a RPG you level up so the damage increases, at level 1 you're doing (example) 2-5 damge, next level it increases slightly and so forth.. Basically you want all damage to be critical hits?

That sounds boring but i've probably not understood what it would add to gameplay.. I do love randomness though, it's a much needed component for games to make things feel organic and life-like, i probably would have very little interest in a RPG which is more machine-like (like chess).

Ripper July 15th, 2019 17:11

Ah - the perfect client! :biggrin:

vurt July 15th, 2019 17:20

Well i'm not gonna throw around "BAIT!!!111" like a retard.. i'm actually interested i game design, as i said i've not really given it too much thought about how such system would work, or if there could be benefits i didn't think of.. It sounds boring though :P I guess pacing would be quite different in such a game.

Ripper July 15th, 2019 17:32

Lol. Yeah, you carry on mate. I'm sure this will be extremely edifying on the subject of game design. :rotfl:

TomRon July 15th, 2019 18:28

The closest I've played in recent memory is Into the breach, but that's hardly an RPG even if it has some RPG elements. I know other games that gave tried systems with no RNG, but none I own or have played recently.

Ripper, even if it is clickbait it's a question worth discussing (RNG in general), no reason not to. If the thread also fills out with weird comments from the OP I regard that as comic relief.

Ripper July 15th, 2019 18:34

Yep, that's plan B. If we're going to be his playground, let's have some fun with it.

I would just note this comment from Darth Roxor in the welcome thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darthowicz_Roxorowski (Post 1061575365)
Hi Nikita! Hope you have a great and lengthy stay here!

He's actually tipping us off. You can read that as, "We've already dealt with this shit at the Codex, and he's going to have a field day with you lot."

TomRon July 15th, 2019 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061575597)
He's actually tipping us off. You can read that as, "We've already dealt with this shit at the Codex, and he's going to have a field day with you lot."

That alone is funny. See, this is already turning into an enjoyable read.

Ripper July 15th, 2019 18:42

Yes, and as I say, as far as I'm concerned, plan B is already in effect. :p

But I did want to warn some folks - there's a lot of nice people around the Watch, some who aren't really tuned in to this sort of nonsense (probably to their credit.) So long as everyone sees this for what it is, have at it.

NikitaSadkov July 15th, 2019 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061575577)
OK. But here's my tip for members that aren't familiar with this sort of thing.

The idea of this type is not necessarily to start trouble, but more to see if he can hook sincere but naive people into engaging with absurdity, starting somewhat subtle, and building up. "Ho ho - can't believe you engaged with this - let's see how far we can take it. How clever I am, and what simpletons you are." We're beginning this time with some vaguely plausible-sounding pseudo-scientific claptrap. I'd highly recommend not engaging at all.

I'd be curious to do an IP check against AppleIntimidation - very similar sort of game, though he might know enough to cover his IP.

I'm sorry, but WHAT?

Ripper July 15th, 2019 19:04

https://www.gamedev.net/forums/topic…sing-software/

https://www.gamedev.net/forums/topic…ietary-assets/

Don't even try it with me, Sunshine. :biggrin:

TomRon July 15th, 2019 19:15

Aww @Ripper, did you have to do that? Now I can't even pretend to take him seriously.

Alrik Fassbauer July 15th, 2019 19:47

There are games in which the start and excecution of rounds es determindes by stats - TDE 4th edition did so, for example. Then, there are games with "action points", too.

Those with the highest "initiative" stat, for example, begin, and then the action points must be spent.

I can't say about the damage, though.


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