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-   -   A challenge for Wulf… (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534)

Uriziel November 9th, 2006 01:36

A challenge for Wulf…
 
I have a new challenge for Wulf or anyone else wanting to compete. The challenge is simple. Get Uriziel, well the "strange sword" with the lowest level and character possible. The tie breaker is lowest unspent LP's. In other words you have to do it with the bare minimum character.

It is an honor thing…no cheats…no marvin, etc.

You can use any honestly achieved save game you wish, but remember the unspent LP rule ;) The lowest stats wins and once you get Uriziel out of the temple…game over :D

Note to Wulf. I am dismayed you uninstalled Gothic. Get back in the game bro…..you know you love it.

Wulf November 9th, 2006 17:04

It wasn't so much playing for five years to enjoy the game but more in searching for chromanin. Now its over, there can be no return, wild horses couldn't drag me back even if someone did it, iv'e already been there, done that.

This means i cannot take up the challenge although it is a good one. It can also be done as soon as you can get bloodfly scrolls, i did a one-take run in and back out again this way, quick spell changing works great, then back again. The bloodflys cannot get across the lava, only the acrobatic method works, and killing of any creatures/npc's is to be frowned upon - a failure's method.

By all means, post any details if you do it.

Sparow November 13th, 2006 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf (Post 6544)
It wasn't so much playing for five years to enjoy the game but more in searching for chromanin.

why were you so long seeking for chromanin? I did the stranger quest only once and i finished the game about 20 times

Wulf November 13th, 2006 21:41

Well Sparow, as much as i would like to answer, it might be for the best if the subject was forgotten, i have to think of other people more than myself, i'm sure Uriziel would prefer this way. Of course i would always be willing to discuss some chromanin info's but not without Uriziel's permission, this is to keep some respect and civility on the forums. If he says 'no' - then that's how it must be…….silence is golden. :)

Uriziel November 13th, 2006 23:50

I'll recap for you Wulf.

It was believed by some that Chromanin had an alternate ending. To complete the alternate ending several ways were suggested and investigated. After an exhaustive code search by myself, countless play thrus by Wulf and others, and a flat denial by one of the developers, the alternate Chromanin ending was abandoned. It appears it was a hoax, but it got many of us drawn very deep into the game and we enjoyed many hours of play that we might not have done.

Some amazing things were learned during all this……just a hint of the things learned are part of this thread. We found some creative ways to do things….and I still find more each play thru. Also one of the things learned is that a forum can become divided, hotly divided, by differing views of an unprovable thing…..Wulf might have worded that "as yet unprovable" :P

cptmaxon June 17th, 2007 00:55

didn't wulf actully got to the alterante ending? a cave somewhere with an old man?

jmurdock June 17th, 2007 03:28

I know he thought he did, which was why he worked on the easter egg hunt for many many moons.

Uriziel June 17th, 2007 04:52

I personally think it would be beneficial to the site, and G1 fans, for Wulf to start a comprehensive thread of hidden things and how to achieve them.(like the hidden troll in the monastery for example) I know alot of it has been shared piecemeal in other threads on various forums, but I can't think of anyone more suited to the task than Wulf. I know Wulf has said he wanted some things kept secret, but there is little point in that now.

I think alot of players would be shocked at what all can really be done in G1. How to get Uriziel in chapter one, or actually defeating the sleeper in chapter one are just a couple of examples.

At one time I thought Gorath was making a "hints" kinda list……like collecting the focus stone above the swamp camp and knowing how to get down the cliff without running all the way back around to Iberion…..and I do not mean the fall bug using the arrow keys.

JDR13 June 17th, 2007 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriziel (Post 32220)
(like the hidden troll in the monastery for example)

Huh? I don't remember that one.


Also, how is it possible to even reach the sleeper in chapter 1 without using cheats?

Uriziel June 17th, 2007 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 32225)
Huh? I don't remember that one.


Also, how is it possible to even reach the sleeper in chapter 1 without using cheats?

Your two questions kinda proves my point that a "tell all" thread should be done so everyone can discover more about G1.

I am not sure if it was Wulf that discovered the troll, but I think it was Wulf that first hinted at the location. The troll is behind the rock wall at the chest you have to leap across the gap to reach.

Reaching the sleeper without cheats in chapter one is simple, but I guess it depends on what you consider a cheat. TheWonderer has made videos of his version of how to do it, and how he planned it was impressive. He did not cheat, but did use "exploits" never thought of by PB when they coded the game. Killing the 5th undead shaman the way he did made my jaw drop. And the childlike ease of how he banished the sleeper was soooo slick.

To me cheating is using console commands, which was never intended for use in normal gameplay. Of course another obvious cheat would be using a "trainer". An "exploit" is taking advantage of game flaws……like being able to pull your weapon and strafe/run past a guard, or using a safe spot to attack from without being harmed.

I would be very interested in a thread containing hidden things, exploits discovered, or simple creative thinking to solve a problem in a different way. I enjoy playing a VERY thorough game, finding everything, collecting everything, etc. I also like new challenges, like the no save game, digger challenge, kickboxer…….whatever just to change it up on my next play through.

I guess cheat, exploit, or creative thinking is a matter of opinion. When I found a way to get above the orc village and kill them all without risk……to me that is creative thinking. Inserting a rain of fire rune and standing above the orc village to kill them all is cheating. Standing above the orc village and herding them all into a corner where you know they will get stuck is an exploit.

As I said before, I was amazed by the simple way TheWonderer killed the 5th undead shaman….simple yet brilliant. And I was embarassed that I had never thought of killing the fire golem first and using his heart as a rune to kill the ice golem. Of course I knew what the golem hearts CAN do…….I had just never connected the dots. That is why I think the thread suggestion I mentioned would be an asset to G1 players………and kind of homage to PB for a game that STILL has secrets.

Maylander June 17th, 2007 18:07

Indeed, it was a hoax, so let's get back to searching for the Swamp Witch..

Malk June 17th, 2007 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriziel (Post 32227)

I guess cheat, exploit, or creative thinking is a matter of opinion. When I found a way to get above the orc village and kill them all without risk……to me that is creative thinking. Inserting a rain of fire rune and standing above the orc village to kill them all is cheating. Standing above the orc village and herding them all into a corner where you know they will get stuck is an exploit.

I agree that exploits are not cheats, but I don't understand how can exploiting the game be fun…

The best way to play the game is the way that the devs imagined (coded). Sure, you can use exploit and stuck all orcs in the corner, but how can that be fun? If the devs made a situation in the game that can be solved in 2 ways (easy way and hard way) it's fun to figure out the hard way… but not to use the exploit way.

Uriziel June 17th, 2007 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malk (Post 32247)
I agree that exploits are not cheats, but I don't understand how can exploiting the game be fun…

The best way to play the game is the way that the devs imagined (coded). Sure, you can use exploit and stuck all orcs in the corner, but how can that be fun? If the devs made a situation in the game that can be solved in 2 ways (easy way and hard way) it's fun to figure out the hard way… but not to use the exploit way.

Well after beating the game several times without exploits or whatnot, I prefer to find other ways to play……instead of simply quiting and uninstalling. Figuring out different ways to do something in the game is fun for me.

Malk June 17th, 2007 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriziel (Post 32249)
Well after beating the game several times without exploits or whatnot, I prefer to find other ways to play……instead of simply quiting and uninstalling. Figuring out different ways to do something in the game is fun for me.

Sure, if it's fun for you why not…

JDR13 June 18th, 2007 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriziel (Post 32227)
I am not sure if it was Wulf that discovered the troll, but I think it was Wulf that first hinted at the location. The troll is behind the rock wall at the chest you have to leap across the gap to reach.
.

It' been about 3 years since the last time I played Gothic 1 other than a few start-up's with some early-game play. I thought I remember that troll appearing in that spot after a certain point in the game. Are you talking about using Marvin to go through the wall to see it?

Maylander June 18th, 2007 06:35

It appears near the end of the game as you start the Ulu-Mulu quest. The reason for this is to give you a troll in case you've killed everything already, and still need the troll item for the quest. This happens with all creatures in the quest: Various new fire-lizards spawn, a few new shadowbeasts (including one in the tunnel near the Old Mine), two trolls (one where the hero/Diego kills one, and one where the hero/Gorn kills one) and a few new swamp sharks. These creatures all spawn as soon as you accept the Ulu-Mulu quest, since the quest items you need from them are not on any animal trophy list (you need to loot them after getting the quest to get the item).

Wulf July 10th, 2007 15:25

It would be impossible to talk of the many associated situations in G1 which still remain secret, believe me there are more than could ever be imagined and they are mostly all connected to the chromanin quest. The chromanin quest trigger activation sequence begins from near the game start and remains latched for a long time and released before the game ending.

Though i could, i will not open a new thread on the topic or it's secrets, my discussion appetite on the subject has been battered, scarred and disgraced. It would be pointless to open the can of worms again for we all saw what happened and it would only be repeated.

Yet since those futile rpgdot attempts to explain what happened, i have learned more info's and what is required to trigger true chromanin. The game is still there on the hard drive where i left off in game 68, poised in chapter four waiting for that final push yet somehow my heart isn't in it any more, so near yet so far away.

G1's true beauty still remains hidden and yet to be revealed….sometimes i think, if only i had continued it might have been solved by now, i doubt i could ever continue, such a shame, such a loss, such is life.

yours faithfully
Wulf "eternal wanderer and devoted chromanin seeker"

Squeek July 10th, 2007 20:44

My feelings were mixed, reading this, because it could open the door to more of the same old stubbornness and bitterness.

I'll say this much, though. I can confirm that Wulf really has held back most of what he remembers, a lot of what he suspects, and nearly all of what he was able to figure out while trying to solve this conundrum. He opened up in the usergroup (and was even more candid with me individually). I never realized how much there was to appreciate about Gothic, how cleverly and intricately it was designed, until I took a close hard look at it.

cptmaxon July 10th, 2007 22:25

well we all know it's an amazing game, and every time I play it i find out some new way to do things…
wulf i'm sorry you feel that way…

Uriziel July 14th, 2007 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf (Post 35062)
It would be impossible to talk of the many associated situations in G1 which still remain secret, believe me there are more than could ever be imagined and they are mostly all connected to the chromanin quest. The chromanin quest trigger activation sequence begins from near the game start and remains latched for a long time and released before the game ending.

Though i could, i will not open a new thread on the topic or it's secrets, my discussion appetite on the subject has been battered, scarred and disgraced. It would be pointless to open the can of worms again for we all saw what happened and it would only be repeated.

Yet since those futile rpgdot attempts to explain what happened, i have learned more info's and what is required to trigger true chromanin. The game is still there on the hard drive where i left off in game 68, poised in chapter four waiting for that final push yet somehow my heart isn't in it any more, so near yet so far away.

G1's true beauty still remains hidden and yet to be revealed….sometimes i think, if only i had continued it might have been solved by now, i doubt i could ever continue, such a shame, such a loss, such is life.

yours faithfully
Wulf "eternal wanderer and devoted chromanin seeker"

Knowing our past I have thought long and hard before replying. I respect your game knowledge, but i do not however believe in the slightest that Chromanin alternate ending exists. That has been thoroughly hashed over in the past……and should be left there.

I do not see how explosing any secrets, even ones you consider to be related to the "C" ending, should be a problem at all. Just because a secret/trick/exploit/ whatever exists, does not mean it has to be tied to some grand hidden theme in the game. It can simply be what it is….alone….and not connected. Exposing an ingame secret so others can explore it can be very rewarding for the players…..and can renew interest and pay homage to a wonderful game.

When I first started playing and found something, I was happy to share it with anyone and show them how to do it. I have also immensely enjoyed trying to find/do things others have discovered and shared. I wish you could regain that youthful wide-eyed enthusiasm for this wonderful game. Share your tricks, like TheWonderer has……and keep the flame alive in everyone.

Of course i respect your decision to not bother helping others explore things they would never find on their on, but honestly…..it is a waste. The Gothic community has one less really valuable asset…..your ingame knowledge. What a waste.

And just so you know, I was DeathBringer on WON playing Homeworld. Might not mean much to ya unless you played it lol. But if you did play Homeworld online, you'll understand. And to clarify one thing to any of you that knew of me then…..NO, I was never defeated….ever! 2 game vids showing me lose was not really me. It was my gf using my account at the time……….although she only lost 4 times in 2 years of nightly play….2 of them were on my account lol.

Peace


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