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-   -   NWN:HotU …OC playthrough required? (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19414)

Drithius February 2nd, 2013 03:36

NWN:HotU …OC playthrough required?
 
Over the years, I've tried to get through NWN's OC twice to no avail, my enthusiasm just dies so quickly in that drab thing. I was tossing around the idea of trying to get back into NWN1 with a playthrough of HotU. Having always wanted to get the "full effect" of NWN1 and play from the OC onwards, I always delayed playing the expansions to the point that I never played them at all!

Is there a play order required? Can I simply skip to the much-lauded HotU?

rjshae February 2nd, 2013 03:51

IIRC, you can start HotU from scratch. You get a bunch of XP to begin, so you can create a PrC character.

Drithius February 2nd, 2013 05:34

Do I miss out on any relevant HotU backstory though?

Couchpotato February 2nd, 2013 05:45

You miss out on some information and background from not playing the original game. The beginning has the npc's you may have hired in NWN 1. Also Aribeth is in
the game.

You can play the last expansion on it's own though. It just helps to know the story. I don't want to spoil the story by saying anymore if you never played it.

Corwin February 2nd, 2013 07:31

The OC of 1 was definitely of the manurial persuasion. I didn't like part 2 much either. Part 3 was well done and worth the effort, but there are a heap of incredible mods out there for the game which could keep you playing for years. Most of the best ones do require that you have all 3 official updates/games installed, as well as a couple of other special programmes. It's been so long since I played that I've forgotten what they are, but they're all free.

Menigal February 2nd, 2013 11:17

Bah to the OC! Bah, I say. The only thing you miss out on by starting with HotU is incredible blandness and some horrific voiceover work. Oh, and the usual Forgotten Realms half-assed plotline. :p

SoU is a bit better, but feels really thrown together and has some pretty severe balance issues. It ties in with HotU more, since you're the same character, but you can pick up on the important parts of the plot fairly easily, and they don't really matter.

HotU is definitely a game you play for fun rather than for the story, especially the first third. It goes a bit downhill from there.

coaster February 2nd, 2013 14:52

Yeah you can import your character from SoU to HoTU so if you enjoy developing your character through from low to epic levels, you might want to play both.

HoTU>SoU>OC in my view. I thought OC was okay but suffers from lots of repetitive "hub" like questing. There is the odd high spot though, like the ruined village (Charwood?) which was quite atmospheric.

Couchpotato February 2nd, 2013 15:18

Nice to see much hasn't changed in ten years . People still either love or hate NWN 1+2. I wonder were Joxer is as I know he most definitely hates them.:)

JemyM February 2nd, 2013 15:50

SoU and HotU can be played with a single character and as a continued story. SoU is somewhat better than the OC and I believe it's worth the time. I would say that the emotional impact of HotU is improved somewhat by playing the OC. HotU relies on at least two characters who you get to know in OC (Aribeth) and SoU (Deekin Scalesinger). But unless it's been fixed now you can't have them all in a party.

ToddMcF2002 February 2nd, 2013 16:07

The OC isn't that bad. It just isn't that good. SoU is every bit as good as HotU in my opinion. You can always hit youtube for the OC highlights if you want some Aribeth or Deekin backstory. Deekin plays a small part in NWN2 OC :)

JemyM February 2nd, 2013 18:13

The OC was made with co-op and multiplayer in mind and for that sake it's actually ok. We did play it through via the internet and we did enjoy it. SoU and HotU are made for a singleplayer experience and they are much better in that regard.

Fnord February 3rd, 2013 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 (Post 1061182590)
The OC isn't that bad. It just isn't that good. SoU is every bit as good as HotU in my opinion. You can always hit youtube for the OC highlights if you want some Aribeth or Deekin backstory. Deekin plays a small part in NWN2 OC :)

I thought it was Bad (with a capital B). One of the worst stories I've ever seen in a game that tries to have a story, repetitive encounter design, bland and boring levels in general, unimmersive as heck and it just got me in a bad mood. It is rare for a game to actually manage to do this, but just thinking about the NWN:OC makes me grumpy.

The expansion campaigns are passable. Miles better than the original, but there are so many better games out there. Sure, there are some nice moments, and some fun fights, but overall I don't think anything related to the official NWN campaigns is worth your time.

Crilloan February 3rd, 2013 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JemyM (Post 1061182607)
The OC was made with co-op and multiplayer in mind and for that sake it's actually ok. We did play it through via the internet and we did enjoy it. SoU and HotU are made for a singleplayer experience and they are much better in that regard.

I played the first 2 chapters in co-op and had a blast, but I have to agree that the two expansions were a much better single player rpg experience.
I think the OC was mostly intended as a showcase for the engine and creation tools.

C

Maylander February 3rd, 2013 16:03

I replayed NWN recently (OC + HotU), and the main advantage of playing the OC first is that you start with 800.000+ gold in HotU. It doesn't mean much in the start of HotU (vendors mainly have rubbish gear in act 1), but it does mean you can craft a completely overpowered weapon in the start of act 2.

Elel February 3rd, 2013 16:46

As far as I remember, it was implied that you play HoTU with a different character than the hero of OC and SoU.

elkston February 3rd, 2013 16:55

Just create a new character and don't worry about the OC. I played through the NWN OC once when it came it and haven't desired to go through it again.

I've played HoTU 2.5 times, though! Really nice campaign with some memorable combat scenarios.

Warmark February 3rd, 2013 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkston (Post 1061182679)
Just create a new character and don't worry about the OC. I played through the NWN OC once when it came it and haven't desired to go through it again.

I've played HoTU 2.5 times, though! Really nice campaign with some memorable combat scenarios.

Completely agree with this.

Then go to- http://nwvault.ign.com/fms/TopRated.php?content=modules

And pick some of the Hall of Fame Modules there, great stuff.

Relayer February 3rd, 2013 23:16

NWN OC: Bland, boring, easy, waste of time.
NWN SoU: Decent, not bad, mildly entertaining.
NWN HoTU: Pretty good, challenging, fun.

So I'd say play both the expansions and skip the OC but SoU isn't necessary. HoTU though is very good. Both of the NWN's have expansions packs that are way better than the OCs were (though NWN2 at least was a decent game).

Elel February 4th, 2013 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relayer (Post 1061182705)
Both of the NWN's have expansions packs that are way better than the OCs were (though NWN2 at least was a decent game).

I would argue with that. Highly praised Mask of the Betrayer had me in the range of neutral to bored, while the OC felt very exciting and had an epic feel that the expansions lack. I agree about NWN because I've never seen a counter-opinion (and it's true anyway), but in case of NWN2 it's a matter of taste.

Maylander February 4th, 2013 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elel (Post 1061182678)
As far as I remember, it was implied that you play HoTU with a different character than the hero of OC and SoU.

Actually, the HotU character is always the hero of SoU. No matter who you import, you're always old friends with Deekin and have never seen Aribeth/Grimgnaw etc.

Elel February 4th, 2013 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maylander (Post 1061182745)
Actually, the HotU character is always the hero of SoU. No matter who you import, you're always old friends with Deekin and have never seen Aribeth/Grimgnaw etc.

Really? Then I was confusing SoU with HoTU. Funny how I don't remember anything at all about SoU except its ending. And that only because I played a class who couldn't win the final boss fight, such epic mess-ups are usually memorable.

Maylander February 4th, 2013 12:10

Heh, yeah, SoU is a bit odd in that regard. There's barely a challenge in the whole thing except the final boss which might just pummel you. Luckily, I've played through it a few times so I know what to expect. :)

Elel February 4th, 2013 12:18

Hm, in fact, I now started to doubt whether the ending belonged to SoU. Maybe it was the OC ending? It was definitely not HoTU, the final boss you fight in HoTU is unforgettable.

That ending was about getting into a small room with a boss who was a female (that's all I remember), but before that you had a huge fight, and the level exit was closed and you couldn't go back and resting was suddenly disabled. So basically, a wizard like my character has spent all powerful spells and had nothing to fight with. Was it SoU that disabled resting before the final battle?

Bioware must hate wizards. The thing in HoTU was pretty much the same, with the final boss being immune to magic. To top it off, my companion was none other than Deekin, hahaha, he was not much use.

Elel February 4th, 2013 12:44

I found this in google:

http://social.bioware.com/forums/for…7734536-1.html

So it would seem that SoU\HoTU character is different. The OP says that the OC companions didn't recognize him in HoTU, while SoU companions did.

Maylander February 4th, 2013 12:53

That's what I'm saying. HotU and SoU is the same character, so Deekin will remember you, but the OC companions will not. Aribeth will *not* remember you when you meet her in HotU, no matter who you import. I have verified this many times, so there's no real point in discussing it.

Anyway, yes it sounds like the OC ending. Before you fight Morag, you fight about 5x Morag's Chosen or Old One Chosen or some such thing. This happens in an area where resting is not possible, and there is no way to get back out.

JDR13 February 4th, 2013 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maylander (Post 1061182755)
That's what I'm saying. HotU and SoU is the same character, so Deekin will remember you, but the OC companions will not. Aribeth will *not* remember you when you meet her in HotU, no matter who you import.

I haven't played any of the NWN expansions, but, if I'm understanding you correctly, that sounds like a huge oversight by the devs. Either that, or they were simply too lazy to add some additional dialogue for those NPCs to indicate whether or not you imported your character from the OC.

Menigal February 4th, 2013 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061182760)
I haven't played any of the NWN expansions, but, if I'm understanding you correctly, that sounds like a huge oversight by the devs. Either that, or they were simply too lazy to add some additional dialogue for those NPCs to indicate whether or not you imported your character from the OC.

It's intended as a follow-up to SoU, which was independent of the OC and designed for a fresh character, so it wouldn't make any narrative sense. You might as well expect them to code in responses for the Mega Man-My Little Pony crossover mod you played through with that character too. :p

There was also a competition for a linking mod, covering the period in between SoU and HotU, explaining how you got to Waterdeep with a certain artefact in your inventory. I can't remember being very impressed with the winners, though.

JDR13 February 4th, 2013 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menigal (Post 1061182768)
It's intended as a follow-up to SoU, which was independent of the OC and designed for a fresh character, so it wouldn't make any narrative sense. You might as well expect them to code in responses for the Mega Man-My Little Pony crossover mod you played through with that character too. :p.

In that case, I think it's somewhat silly that they included the option to import your character to begin with. Why even allow that if you're not supposed to be the same character?

Menigal February 4th, 2013 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061182773)
In that case, I think it's somewhat silly that they included the option to import your character to begin with. Why even allow that if you're not supposed to be the same character?

Because the main selling point of NWN was the ability to make your own adventures, and the ability to import and export characters between them was a big part of that. So you take your PC from level 1 to 3 in one module and then use them in a series of modules that take you from level 3 to 10, never setting foot in an official campaign.

It's like taking your PnP character sheet around to several different friends' houses for a series of short adventures.

Maylander February 4th, 2013 16:51

I really would have preferred the import to take origin of the character into consideration. It would've made certain scenes so much more interesting (Aribeth, Grimgnaw, Linu etc).

I realize that it would take quite a bit of work. However, given the import system of recent BioWare titles (DA, ME), it's fairly obvious it would've been possible.

Ah well, it's not likely to change anytime soon. :)

blatantninja February 4th, 2013 18:43

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I hated the OC so much that I never finished it and sadly missed out on all the fun that was the fan made modules. It's back on the list, but it with about a dozen other games in front of it.

Elel February 4th, 2013 19:33

The OC is not really *that* bad, although tastes differ. Anyway, there are ways to make it memorable. You can play as a mage without companions and summons on highest difficulty (the game's easy anyway). It's totally amazing! In other games you either don't have invisibility spells, don't have enough of them, or when you cast an offensive spell enemies can reach you before you cast a second invis to hide. Basically other games are designed in a manner that makes such an approach impossible.

The OC has a place in my heart as the only game I've come upon so far where playing a single "wizard-assasin" is possible. Haste + invis + fireball, a deadly combo! Now playing the new Deux Ex, and as strange as it sounds, it reminds me of the OC.

rjshae February 4th, 2013 22:16

Yeah I didn't think the OC was that bad either, although Neverwinter could have been filled out a little more. The one area I didn't care for was the ending at the Vale of Merdelain. Yeesh.

Couchpotato February 4th, 2013 22:30

What it all comes down to was NWN was never intended to be played solo. It was designed to market a toolset to build your modules to play online with others.

The campaign was an afterthought when they realized they couldn't just release the game as it was.

There are many posts and articles on this subject. They had a short development time for the campaign. At least the two expansions were better especially HotU.

Chaozrulez February 8th, 2013 12:34

NWN is one of my favorite games ever, I played most of the modules from NWN Vault (Eye of the Beholder Mod was great, they are working on EOB2) and I am still playing NWN on a server (see my sig).

DArtagnan February 8th, 2013 13:15

I liked SoU quite a bit more than most in this thread it seems. Ok, it wasn't fantastic - but I really enjoyed it.

HotU was good in terms of story, but I found it to be over-the-top - which I tend to do with high level D&D stuff. I'm more into the grounded stories on a smaller scale.

Pessimeister February 8th, 2013 14:17

Interesting thread. I was just curious about Watcher opinions on the extra modules from the Diamond edition. I've still got the entire package installed, but have yet to really give any of them a decent shot.

Any strong preferences in favour of any of them, which to play first etc?

I liked Shadows of Unrentide as well actually; mostly for the cold setting and low-level nature of the tale. I recall it was a challenge as I'd chosen to roleplay a particularly diminutive cleric.

Hordes of the Underdark was certainly more challenging and classic AD&D in its tone and unbridled dungeon delving. I'm probably overdue to replay it at some point, but from memory it definitely lacked the subdued humility that I enjoyed in SoU.

Menigal February 8th, 2013 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DArtagnan (Post 1061183373)
I liked SoU quite a bit more than most in this thread it seems. Ok, it wasn't fantastic - but I really enjoyed it.

HotU was good in terms of story, but I found it to be over-the-top - which I tend to do with high level D&D stuff. I'm more into the grounded stories on a smaller scale.

Actually, I'm with you on this, except for HotU's story being good. SoU had problems, but I still enjoyed it; it's just hard to recommend to someone else. HotU is fun when it's a dungeon crawl, but falls apart after the first chapter. I've always found D&D to be best before about level 14 or so. Anything higher than that and it just gets ridiculous, and HotU did.

DArtagnan February 8th, 2013 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menigal (Post 1061183384)
Actually, I'm with you on this, except for HotU's story being good. SoU had problems, but I still enjoyed it; it's just hard to recommend to someone else. HotU is fun when it's a dungeon crawl, but falls apart after the first chapter. I've always found D&D to be best before about level 14 or so. Anything higher than that and it just gets ridiculous, and HotU did.

Frankly, I don't remember much about the story. I play so many games that I have a hard time keeping stories in my head.

But, I do remember that it had some excellent puzzles and some really terrific old-school stuff - if you're into stories about gods and demons, and the usual extreme stuff in super high level D&D campaigns. My brother can't get enough of that kind of thing, and consequently he loves HotU like it was a child.

That said, I don't remember much about SoU either, only that it was a reasonably well-told story and a good leveling flow.

Lucky Day February 8th, 2013 18:52

I just couldn't finish any of the OC's, however I loved the options they brought to the game especially Tilesets and other building assets. The drow tileset was really unique.

The best single player mod was HeX Coda, which was slated as a DLC but was axed by WotC for not being Forgotten Realms.

If you want to play my SP module, The Girl in Ill Humor, I'll even help you out in it and I'll guarantee you a fun time.

It got a favourable review on it from VPJ too.

It appears I got a couple of more votes on it last year and one of them agrees with VPJ with a handful of exceptions.


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