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crpgnut January 19th, 2007 21:57

Agree with Martin 100%, Arma. I grabbed a couple of his novels from the library and noticed that he keeps adding and killing off characters constantly. Way too dull for me. Martin wants to be Jordan, but most of us have learned the lesson.

Arma January 20th, 2007 03:56

Well, at least he kills some of the characters, and most of them major ones. Jordan just keeps dragging his cast along, resurecting the few ones that actually got killed. Btw, this was one of the good things that have happened to the WoT series, as the Forsaken and their Darkfriends, despite proving to be very incompetent in everything they do, are his most likeable characters, since they have the same goals as me, make the rest of the leading cast suffer …

Dez January 21st, 2007 22:29

yeah you said it. I truly hope that elayne and nyanaeve in particular face a horrible suffering. :biggrin: I can't understand why nearly every important female character in Jordan's books is some kind of over jealous narrow-minded tyrant. Sure there are expections like min, but they are only expections.

Arma January 22nd, 2007 09:55

My theory about Jordan's female characters, is that most of them are based on Hariet, Bobby's wife :)

Maylander January 22nd, 2007 10:59

Just read WoT: New Spring. Great book, love the series, hopefully he'll finish it at some point. The series as a whole will be a masterpiece once/if completed.

GothicGothicness January 24th, 2007 18:58

I agree with DTE and Maylander, WoT is great, it is not for everybody though, it requires you to invest a lot of time and understanding… otherwise it will appear like things never move a long. The world Jordan created is unique, never have I seen such a detailed expression of a living world.

For people who likes something light and straight to the point where you don't need to think, I reccomend Steven Erikson instead.

I do agree about Martin however, his first books were great… but he screwed up after that…… the worst part was when he started to resurrect everyone! He had some likeable/cool characters but they all died or became idiots except for Arya… she is still kind of cool :D

Arma January 24th, 2007 21:21

Actually, I find that you are not right on the matter. Jordan's world is complex, indeed, but so is Erikson's. Actually, I believe that Erikson's works present a far more complex world than WoT, however I am not that far into the series, having read the first book only so far.

What exactly is there to understand to Elayne taking a bath? For several pages? Or several chapters of tea sipping and the like? And Other similar stuff of equal boredom? I don't care about such stuff, I actually want something to happen but not just for it happening's sake, but for the sake of the plot to move forward. In the last 5 book of the WoT there has been, no it's not zero movement, but the plot move backwards, several absolutely unnecessary plots were introduced (Elayne's Succession of Andor and Perrin's saving of Faile quickly spring to mind, which is bad, since for a few books, or The Dragon Reborn at least I actually liked Perrin's character) with even more senceless going ons. I admit to the books being very well written and enjoyable, as Bobby managed to learn how to write his characters into doing absolutely nothing and still be, well somewhat enjoyable for some of the characters. Since most of the characters are absolute idiots, especially 99 % of his female characters, and it is a very difficult task to like them and keep on liking them after all their moronic actions.

What I liked about Erikson's style of writing, as opposed to Jordan's, is his compact writing. No nonse sniffing, tea sipping, dress making, dinner eating, bath taking, and stuff. If Gardens of the Moon was written by Jordan, it would have taken 12 volumes all by itself as Paran, Tattersail, Cruppe, Whiskeyjack and rest would have been taken through all that idle nonsence. Erikson's style is so compact, he even includes only a vague discriptiong of his characters. There are many things that are obviously left vague as to be filled in by my imagination. That is what I call a book that takes time to understand as to make sence. I found myself prone to quick checking the scarce reference notes about the cast and other explanations that were included in the local edition (I haven't seen the English edition, but I would think that it includes these as well)

crpgnut January 24th, 2007 22:08

I read quickly, so I get to post here alot :) I just finished a series called The Seven Brothers. It follows the story of Llesho, an exiled prince from a pseudo-oriental land. It features mortal gods, dreams, and fairly interesting military operations. It's not great, but it flows quickly and there's not a lot of down time in the book. Even when something as mundane as prayers or laundry is taking place, there is an ulterior reason for it. It was written by Curt Benjamin.

My next series is called Bridge of D'Arnath. It's looking much better than the Benjamin series, but I'm just in the first book. I'll post my thoughts after a few more books.

Cormac January 24th, 2007 23:49

I'm in the middle of John Keegan's Intelligence at War, a book about, uh, well the use and misuse of intelligence in war (I think). Greatly enjoying it, especially the chapter on Stonewall Jackson's Valley campaign. I'm pretty sure Jackson would have been into turn based gaming if he'd lived in our time, he's that cool.
Also reading and rereading the stories of Henry James. Those who like ghost stories shouldnt miss his attempts at the genre, like The Turn of the Screw, The Jolly Corner and Owen Wingrave. Good stuff.
Some more highbrow goodness just got here from Amazon, Newman's Arians of the Fourth Century. RoFL !

ToddMcF2002 January 25th, 2007 02:36

Anyone here try J V Jones? Cavern of Black Ice? Its excellent. Fortress of Grey Ice was pretty damn good too. Her 3rd book should be out in the next few months.

dteowner January 25th, 2007 03:38

I enjoyed JV Jones. She's got several other books out. There's the "Baker's Boy" trilogy (or something like that) which was a solid debut. Then came the "Barbed Coil", a decent stand-alone book. She's been writing very, very slow on the current trilogy, so I haven't even bought Cavern yet.

Corwin January 25th, 2007 04:46

Yep, Jones is a great writer!! Been reading a fantasy series by Karen Hancock which wouldn't suit everyone, as it's very strongly Christian in theme.

txa1265 January 25th, 2007 15:12

I'm reading a couple of things:

"The Areas of My Expertise" by John Hodgman. Hodgman is the guy who plays the 'PC' in Apple's latest commercials, and is also a humorist who has been on NPR, the Daily Show and others. This is sort of a Almanac of made-up and generally funny stuff.

"Bridge to Terabithia" by Katherine Paterson. This is a quick read, and everyone else in my family has finished it … we are determined to all read it before going to see it for my younger son's birthday in a month (we're having his party at one of those really cool dinner / movie places)

GothicGothicness January 25th, 2007 17:28


Actually, I find that you are not right on the matter. Jordan's world is complex, indeed, but so is Erikson's. Actually, I believe that Erikson's works present a far more complex world than WoT, however I am not that far into the series, having read the first book only so far.
Thank you, I really like to discuss this subject, it would be boring if we agree all the time. Well, sometimes Jordan overdo the entire tea-sipping and description thing, you are right. But on the most part your complaints is a matter of taste, you want a lot of actions all the time, and blanks to fill in yourself about everyone…. this requires use of your imagination. Jordan's world however is described in such a detail, IMHO you can't compare that to Eriksson's fuzziness, I played an online game based on Jordan for 7 years…. We could recreate the environment of the seanchan personality of the different races, everything from meeting to wedding rituals for all the different races in great detail with the information from the book, and with amazingly few inconsistances….. I know of only two minor bloppers he made but they can be saved. We can also recreate the languages of the different cultures, all of their cermonies… everything. This is just because he is describing the characters everyday life in detail, and not only the kind of "action" you appear to want all the time. AS for it not moving forward, you can read the post with a spoiler warning I posted earlier in this thread, which explains how everything took a big leap forward in the latest books.

Black Hood January 25th, 2007 18:03

This is great, two threads (the other being the "what are you listening to" one) that I've taken a couple of notes from on things to check out.
I'm currently reading those J.V. Jones "Book of Words" novels, 1/2 way through "A Man Betrayed". I have to say I'm not that enthralled by them, they feel a bit formulaic to me, but there's the occasional bit or character that keeps my interest enough to keep going, which is more than I can say for the majority of the modern giant fantasy epics. I remember back when I was into "The Belgariad" and then at some point I just gave up on it; it kind of gives me that feeling. However, I'm trying to catch up on the popular fantasy series of the past few years so I'll give it a chance. I read "The Ill-Made Mute" just before this and I liked that a bit more. Sadly I haven't found the next book in that series yet; I need to go to the library. Then there's this "Tawny Man" book that's next on the list to read.
I also have a copy of "Dashiell Hammett - Five Complete Novels" here on my desk at work, I'm re-reading "The Maltese Falcon" during my breaks. Great stuff.
I have a hankering to re-read Tanith Lee's "Tales of the Flat Earth" books, those are some fine reading.

crpgnut January 26th, 2007 00:03

If someone would like romantic relationships with their magic, one might read the Blendings novels by Sharon Green. I found these books to be fairly interesting and the magic system was unique. I've never read anything remotely like it.

ToddMcF2002 January 28th, 2007 04:55

Black Hood,

You should try J V Jones A Cavern of Black Ice especially if you've read and enjoyed Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series. Pretty similar in feel, no obvious formula that I can see. Lots of twists.

curious January 28th, 2007 09:26

got barack obama's book "the audacity of hope" for christmas from my parents. finally got to this evening. i'll share some thoughts when i'm done. it's a shame that i haven't read much lately (last 4-5 months). bloody computer games!

crpgnut January 30th, 2007 17:47

Okay. I've read 3+ books in Carol Berg's series, The Bridge of D'Arnath. This is a two-worlds tale where one land is a world of magic and the other is mundane. The writer is good at making you assume one thing to be true and then pulling the rug out from under your assumptions. I found book two to be kinda dull, but necessary. The rest of the series has been a joy to read.

dteowner January 30th, 2007 18:53

@curious- would llike to hear those thoughts when you're ready. I've heard very little from/about Obama and am curious (well, no, you're curious, but I'm, well, you know) what he's bringing to the shindig.

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