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HiddenX July 15th, 2021 22:29

Extreme Weather
 
Germany was hit by severe floods yesterday:
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Experts say the jetstream is slower these days due to climate change, so that extreme weather (rain, heat, storm) can happen more often and can stay longer at one place.

A reminder: Air that is 1° warmer, can hold 7% more water vapor (steam) .

I feel sorrow for my fellow citizens who lost their homes or even their loved ones :(

Ripper July 15th, 2021 22:31

Very sad. I think at least there are more people now that are getting the idea.

HiddenX July 15th, 2021 22:42

I'm protesting for years against increasing floor sealing and building houses near rivers in floodplains. But politicians learn slowly and strong economic growth is still more important.

These events cost a lot of money. Nature protection saves the the climate, saves the planet, saves the animals and us humans as well.

SleepingDog July 15th, 2021 23:33

It is sad but what is worse is that I think that we will need something that is bigger and badder in terms in human tragedy before the majority accept that major change is needed.

This is not just the politicians fault. If the vast majority of people started voting Green (as in political party) then the politicians would soon change. I noted in a local by-election(the UK) the Green Party got less than 4% of the vote cast.

People do not like change especially if it affects them directly. See how the other countries are reacting to the "Green Plan" from the EU.

My only consolation is that I will be dead, from old age, before the worse of Climate Change hits.

Here's hoping I am very badly wrong and we get Climate Change Control/ Reversal sort out within the next ten years.

Redglyph July 16th, 2021 00:12

Belgium got hit pretty badly too these last days. Hope you're safe, hang in there!

Wisdom July 16th, 2021 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiddenX (Post 1061648103)
But politicians learn slowly and strong economic growth is still more important.

Baffling concept to me. Politicians are your neighbors with a job in council, municipality, county, town, development office etc.

They don't have magic powers or awareness. They weigh out the pros and cons based on advice from your other neighbors who demand more housing and your other neighbors that run construction and landscaping and cleaning and babysitting services and approve what the majority wants.

If they don't… then all the neighbors boot that person out and vote in their other neighbor that will listen to the majority of them.

Wisdom July 16th, 2021 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepingDog (Post 1061648111)
It is sad but what is worse is that I think that we will need something that is bigger and badder in terms in human tragedy before the majority accept that major change is needed.

This is not just the politicians fault. If the vast majority of people started voting Green (as in political party) then the politicians would soon change. I noted in a local by-election(the UK) the Green Party got less than 4% of the vote cast.

People do not like change especially if it affects them directly. See how the other countries are reacting to the "Green Plan" from the EU.

My only consolation is that I will be dead, from old age, before the worse of Climate Change hits.

Here's hoping I am very badly wrong and we get Climate Change Control/ Reversal sort out within the next ten years.

Everyone wants someone else to be impacted and someone else to pay for it. Human nature in a nutshell.

Wisdom July 16th, 2021 01:39

On the whole notion of Climate action… I'd support anything that can prove a tangible benefit and not essentially be a cash grab or extra tax.
Don't get me started on how govs spin 'green jobs' for stat purposes and placating.

Ripper July 16th, 2021 01:43

Holy Climate-Skepticism Triple Post, Batman! :p

Wisdom July 16th, 2021 01:44

Mobile. Edits are harder and every time I change cell towers my broswer makes me sign in again… sorry.

Hey. I don't see any skepticism above with regards to climate. Just how people act!!!

Ripper July 16th, 2021 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisdom (Post 1061648131)
Mobile. Edits are harder and every time I change cell towers my broswer makes me sign in again… sorry.

Hey. I don't see any skepticism above with regards to climate. Just how people act!!!

Fair enough - you just seemed a bit keen! :p

Hurls July 16th, 2021 03:15

Sorry to hear that. One prediction made re climate change was that hurricanes/typhoons/cyclones would probably get fewer but bigger, due to higher temperatures mean more energy in systems, particularly ocean temperature increases. There has also been proposals for a higher level of hurricane (category 6).

Initial analysis in Australia last year (sorry can’t find source) agreed with prediction with frightening accuracy.

Now, I know correlation isn’t cause, but as part of my PhD I did a chunk of statistics and the analysis stood up.

Hurls July 16th, 2021 03:23

Oh, more important my sympathy to everyone affected.

Regarding building close to rivers etc., the insurance industry in Australia about 10 years ago became more granular. For example, a low lying set of street numbers might have house insurance premiums up to five times higher than houses in the SAME street but in a higher section. Same is true for bushfire likelihood, proximity to sea shorelines etc. etc. This has changed some developments (FYI for our aged Queenslander, this was driven by the Brisbane floods).

I had to endure a two hour lecture from an actuary when I was consulting to an insurance company board here in Australia about the topic. I felt like one of those nodddy dogs you see on cars parcel shelves.

Carnifex July 16th, 2021 03:26

I spent many years ducking tornadoes in Maryland, then over a decade in Canada evading prairie storms and blizzards, now four years going on ducking hurricanes. Be prepared, watch out for family and neighbors, and always have a towel handy, two if possible!! I don't think the weather anywhere is likely to improve in our lifetimes.

Redglyph July 16th, 2021 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisdom (Post 1061648127)
Baffling concept to me. Politicians are your neighbors with a job in council, municipality, county, town, development office etc.

They don't have magic powers or awareness. They weigh out the pros and cons based on advice from your other neighbors who demand more housing and your other neighbors that run construction and landscaping and cleaning and babysitting services and approve what the majority wants.

If they don't… then all the neighbors boot that person out and vote in their other neighbor that will listen to the majority of them.

But isn't that what he said?

Politicians are elected for a short period, they'll favour anything that works within that period to increase their chances or the chances of their party for the next term. Long-termed objectives like not stupidly building in floodable areas or preserving green areas in towns and cities does not fit well in that agenda, as you say, people who vote for them are short-sighted.

There must be a long and grinding work of educating and convincing enough people so they understand the necessity of long-termed goals, if not for their sake, at least for their children's. And whose role is that, if not the politicians'? It should be their moral duty, even if they're not in the green party, but it's a very slow process to get there.

Hastar July 16th, 2021 13:45

We're getting 2 inches of rain here in Ohio today. That's on top of all the rain we've had in the last week. It feels like Florida here with all the damn humidity and heat. In my 51 years, I've not seen many (if any) all-day downpours in July.

Ripper July 16th, 2021 13:51

The situation in Germany is shocking.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57858829

Wisdom July 16th, 2021 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redglyph (Post 1061648165)
But isn't that what he said?

I read his statement literally. "Politicians learn slowly and economic growth is more important." Its not politicians that learn slowly. Its the majority. Politicians literal job is to do what the majority wants. Thats exactly how democracy works.

Civic planning builds in green spaces and floodable areas. Members of the local area are generally elected (not even party based, but individuals) to maintain the civic rules of an area. When enough individuals in an area vote that a civic rule changes, it gets changed. Nobody intentionally builds in a high risk zone. Mitigation is planned, previous floods are mapped and measured, estimates on chances are made.

Things like "100 year flood plains" are a best guestimate based on old data and most cities are running out of room for the new citizens that have just as much right to live in a house as the old citizen so they make risk based decisions and build in previous floodzones.

Nobody with an existing house would give it up to turn it into 5 mini apartments for the new citizens unless it was worth it for them. This limits the choices of where to build and how to accommodate the citizens that all have an equal vote.

I'm just saying that politicians are not mystical gods able to see the future and change the publics mind nor are they the devil intentionally sowing chaos or making bad decisions. Politicians are literally one of you with a role in local government.

Ripper July 16th, 2021 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisdom (Post 1061648172)
Politicians literal job is to do what the majority wants. Thats exactly how democracy works.

I think somebody better tell them that. :p

But seriously, I do think that's an extremely idealised picture of how things work. If we look at major policies that majorities actually want, very often our politicians definitely do not make it their job to deliver them.

We often have a choice between viable candidates that are marginally different, but ultimately are going to serve interests that are often very much in conflict with the majority will - we get a choice of which topping we'd like on the iceberg, but we're still getting the iceberg.

Wisdom July 16th, 2021 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061648173)
I think somebody better tell them that. :p

But seriously, I do think that's an extremely idealised picture of how things work. If we look at major policies that majorities actually want, very often our politicians definitely do not make it their job to deliver them.

We often have a choice between viable candidates that are marginally different, but ultimately are going to serve interests that are often very much in conflict with the majority will - we get a choice of what topping we'd like on the iceberg, but we're still getting the iceberg.

Don't confuse the abomination that is party politics at the top level with local and civic government.

Dont' confuse what vocal and insistent groups want with majority, regardless of how much you agree with them.

Everyone likes to assume that what they want is what the majority wants, but thats not the case.


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