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-   -   Fallout: New Vegas - "Wittier" Than FO3 (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9830)

Dhruin February 8th, 2010 23:14

Fallout: New Vegas - "Wittier" Than FO3
 
Yes, this is one of those previews of a preview but while we wait for more substantial New Vegas news, this is nice to see. CVG reprints a snippet from their sister magazine PSM3 about the quality of writing in New Vegas:
Quote:

As part of its world-exclusive cover feature, PSM3 played an extensive demo of New Vegas. The mag reported that it was 'apparent that Obsidian are much more comfortable behind the keyboard than the team that made Fallout 3 and, before that, Oblivion. The scripting is wittier, the characters more distinct.'
More information.

Kostas February 8th, 2010 23:14

No surprises there.
Did actually anyone expect an Obsidian game to have worse characters and script than Oblivion?

JemyM February 8th, 2010 23:36

I except it to get poor reviews thanks to bugs. I loved all Obsidiands games, but they are often unfinished.

Kostas February 8th, 2010 23:51

I don't think Bethesda can afford their "new" IP to get poor reviews and they're not as bad as Atari..
New Vegas will be developed on Gamebryo so the chances of them creating a bugfest are rather small.

Davion February 9th, 2010 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JemyM (Post 1060996696)
I except it to get poor reviews thanks to bugs. I loved all Obsidiands games, but they are often unfinished.

Kotor 2 was shameful.

crpgnut February 9th, 2010 00:42

Because of the nightmare of Daggerfall's bugfest, Bethesda has been very good about cleaning up their product before release since. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 have been remarkably bug-free considering the size of the gameworlds. Are there patches? Sure. I'm pretty confident the QA of Bethesda will find most of the glaring issues.

PegasusOrgans February 9th, 2010 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1060996716)
Because of the nightmare of Daggerfall's bugfest, Bethesda has been very good about cleaning up their product before release since. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 have been remarkably bug-free considering the size of the gameworlds. Are there patches? Sure. I'm pretty confident the QA of Bethesda will find most of the glaring issues.

Wow, someone else who remembers how terribly broken Daggerfall was.
It is, to date, the buggiest most broken game I've ever played.

As for Obsidian(you know, made up of Black Isle "All Stars)being wittier than Bethesda… duh.
Planescape:Torment was outrageously funny and Avallone is on board so I'm a believer.

Greymane February 9th, 2010 01:08

I'm looking forward to this. Seems to me that having Vegas as a background rather than Washington DC, some perkier dialogue might be a bit easier to work into the general mechanics of a survival adventure.

Acleacius February 9th, 2010 01:55

Wasn't Obsidian's fault on the bugs, you have any idea what role publishers play in Q&A and release dates, maybe you forgot? :)

JDR13 February 9th, 2010 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acleacius (Post 1060996733)
Wasn't Obsidian's fault on the bugs, you have any idea what role publishers play in Q&A and release dates, maybe you forgot? :)


While there's definitely some truth to that, you can't absolve Obsidian from blame 100%.

bobisimo February 9th, 2010 02:31

It definitely was Obsidian's fault that they bit off well more than they could chew. They've admitted as much themselves, that KotOR II should have been shorter and focused on a more complete experience (and I think the same could be said of NWN2). That said, I think they've learned their lessons, or at least started to show that they're learning — just as Bethesda has. Mask of the Betrayer, although an expansion pack, was a much cleaner overall experience. Lessons learned, and put into practice, coupled with the release date extension for Alpha Protocol lead me to believe that AP will be the most polished (and not just their most polished, but actually somewhat polished) Oblivion major release to date. At least, that's my hope. :p

themadhatter February 9th, 2010 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostaz (Post 1060996701)
I don't think Bethesda can afford their "new" IP to get poor reviews and they're not as bad as Atari.

On the contrary, given that Bethesda Game Studios is not the developer and Bethesda Softworks is merely acting as publisher, they can easily afford for the title to tank. After all, the burden to deliver financially is on Obsidian, as are any criticisms leveled at the title. Should New Vegas fail to garner a positive critical or commercial reception, don't believe for a moment that forums the internet-over won't be littered with posts lamenting how "it would have been so much better if Bethsoft made it! Obsidian sucks!" For my part, I can only imagine how many critics will follow suit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostaz (Post 1060996701)
New Vegas will be developed on Gamebryo so the chances of them creating a bugfest are rather small.

Technical reality-check, mate: the engine has very little to do with the bugs. Ultimately, that is a result of how the developers manipulate its functions, in addition to any customization of said engine they choose to make. Gamebryo has been used to create a wide-variety of titles, from the Empire Earth sequels to Bully and Zoo Tycoon 2. Some were incredibly buggy, others less so. The only claim that can be attributed solely to the engine is this: it is a poorly-optimized mess when it comes to running on the PC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crpgnut (Post 1060996716)
Because of the nightmare of Daggerfall's bugfest, Bethesda has been very good about cleaning up their product before release since. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 have been remarkably bug-free considering the size of the gameworlds. Are there patches? Sure. I'm pretty confident the QA of Bethesda will find most of the glaring issues.

Tell that to the poor customers who made the (admittedly misguided) choice to purchase F3-DLC, such as Operation: Anchorage or the even more egregiously unfinished The Pitt, both of which required the modding community to even be rendered playable (though Bethesda later issued a patch).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1060996736)
While there's definitely some truth to that, you can't absolve Obsidian from blame 100%.

For that matter, both Feargus Urquhart and Darren Monahan got started in Quality Assurance work. Obsidian also has its own internal-QA department (like most major studios) and thus, like JDR13, I don't see any validity to claiming the bugs that plague their titles aren't "their fault."

Kostas February 9th, 2010 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by themadhatter (Post 1060996742)
Technical reality-check, mate: the engine has very little to do with the bugs. Ultimately, that is a result of how the developers manipulate its functions, in addition to any customization of said engine they choose to make. Gamebryo has been used to create a wide-variety of titles, from the Empire Earth sequels to Bully and Zoo Tycoon 2. Some were incredibly buggy, others less so. The only claim that can be attributed solely to the engine is this: it is a poorly-optimized mess when it comes to running on the PC.

What I meant is that the engine itself if fairly stable and used by many.In addition to that they will also be getting most things from FO3.

themadhatter February 9th, 2010 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostaz (Post 1060996745)
What I meant is that the engine itself if fairly stable and used by many.In addition to that they will also be getting most things from FO3.

Fair enough. I can agree with that.

Dhruin February 9th, 2010 04:27

I know I'm hopelessly alone with this point of view but I thought KotOR2 was quite good as it was and the fallout over the ending is somewhat overblown.

txa1265 February 9th, 2010 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acleacius (Post 1060996733)
Wasn't Obsidian's fault on the bugs, you have any idea what role publishers play in Q&A and release dates, maybe you forgot? :)

I am also in the 'shared responsibility' opinion …

My KotOR 2 review called the end a mess and that by the middle you could see things unraveling, but I agree with Dhruin that the 'facts' of KotOR2 as 'shameful' have become some form of folklore or meme or something …

Either way I am very much looking forward to what they do with this.

Davion February 9th, 2010 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dhruin (Post 1060996759)
I know I'm hopelessly alone with this point of view but I thought KotOR was quite good as it was and the fallout over the ending is somewhat overblown.

True, I was in grave error to refer to the entire game as "shameful".

The beginning and the middle of the game were excellent. I enjoyed them even more than Kotor 1. But the ending is something that I would still call shameful, it really felt unfinished/rushed. Especially after such a good buildup, it was so disappointing. :'( None the less, I recommended it to my friends.

So I stand correct, Kotor2's a great game with a very messy ending. It should have gotten a sequel though, the ending was screaming for it.

JDR13 February 9th, 2010 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davion (Post 1060996771)
Kotor2's a great game with a very messy ending.


Sounds similar to a recent RPG from Piranha Bytes. :)

Acleacius February 9th, 2010 06:39

Fault and absolution are way different, Obsidian could do everything right within their control and things can still go wrong, which they did becasue of lucas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobisimo
It definitely was Obsidian's fault…………

Care to know why your wrong? Name a single available company that could have done it? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by themadhatter
For that matter, both Feargus Urquhart and Darren Monahan got started in Quality Assurance work…….

That side steps the whole issue though, when your in crunch time, all available hands at a developer (for the most part are on deck) the publisher is responsible for the final Q&A and RC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by txa1265
I am also in the 'shared responsibility' opinion …

We all are, but fault is something different. It was lucas's obscene time frame of development to make a GREAT AAA RPG SW title, which lucas definatly needed, on average the ones lucas makes are not very good.
What was lucas's idea? Get a very good RPG developer to make a very good game, in 18 months for console and PC, right?

_______________
The problem is perception, of course they bit of more than they could chew, what they intended was making a great AAA RPG for SW and lucas didn't think it was important enough to give them and extra 1 or 2 months.

Blame who you want, guys. :)
Not to mention lucas came to them, Bioware was busy and Obsidian was the only one who could do it.

If they had the time, obviously they are talented and experienced enough to do it.

themadhatter February 9th, 2010 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acleacius (Post 1060996775)
Care to know why your wrong? Name a single available company that could have done it? :)

What kind of logic is that? It proves nothing, mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acleacius (Post 1060996775)
That side steps the whole issue though, when your in crunch time, all available hands at a developer (for the most part are on deck) the publisher is responsible for the final Q&A and RC.

a) True, however…
b) I was not referring to KOTOR2, but rather the responsibility Obsidian has for all their titles final states, with particular regard to their most recent games.
c) Try quoting my entire pertinent reply next time.
d) Had you done "c" you would have found that I included a particularly telling bit: Obsidian also has its own internal-QA department. Which is to say, in addition to the dedicated Quality Assurance team/s the publisher supplies, Obsidian has a group of testers that works side-by-side with the developers. Taking that into account, and insofar as I am concerned, glaring issues and a finished product that can only be described as "buggy" is unforgivable.


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