Final Fantasy 12 Remaster

[Zloth]

Here comes another one: http://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantasy-12-remake-the-zodiac-age-announced/

PS4s in Japan should have it in 2017. PC? Who knows but pas sales make it pretty likely.

 

[Deleted User]

I didn't realize Final Fantasy 12 was old enough to be in "the remake zone".

That's cool. I didn't play the game yet so maybe I'll just jump in with the new one.

 

[JDR13]

Nice… that's one that I'll actually have some interest in.

 

[Hexprone]

I didn't play the game yet so maybe I'll just jump in with the new one.

You're in for a treat -- the skill system is my favorite in the series by a long chalk, and the customizable AI is great too.

 

[Zloth]

Yeah, the AI thing was pretty cool once you got a ways into the game and had some good options.

If you do play, do NOT just run from area to area. You'll be quite gimped after several hours of play if you do that. That's what I did and I had to restart the whole thing. There was some sort of encyclopedia of critters in the game and you need a certain number of each critter to complete your entry. I found that the game balanced pretty well if I stayed in each area until that was done. (I did not enjoy doing that so it was definitely grinding, IMHO.)

The story OK except that all the baddies wear full helmets all the time. Listen carefully to their voices (or turn on subtitles and learn their names?) or you won't know who's who.

 

[Deleted User]

I hear there are some pretty unique elements in FF12 that I'd personally like, like rare monster/boss hunting, and some sort of menu-based, real-time-but-time-matters combat system? Not quite sure the details anymore but it sounded interesting at the time.

Also, isn't a bit more "open-world" than older FF games? Or at least, more open areas, maybe.

 

[JDR13]

Yes, it's open-world. The combat is semi real-time, and there are no random encounters.

 

[figment]

FF12 is very different from other FF games. I think for the better and is far more open-world. I think the story did not have a love story at the center and was more political which is why I think it was more widely panned. I would say its the most PC like game of the FF series.

As I recall the encounters were mostly avoidable and had an interesting feedback mechanism to let you know who is targeting who when running around on the world map. This is probably another game I'd pickup if it came to the PC. Emulation never quite worked right last time I tried it.

 

[Carnifex]

Sounds quite different from the other Final Fantasy games that I've played to date. Not sure I'd care for one that wasn't turn based and tactical.

 

[JDR13]

Sounds quite different from the other Final Fantasy games that I've played to date. Not sure I'd care for one that wasn't turn based and tactical.

It's still tactical, it's just not turn-based in a typical way.

 

[joxer]

There was some sort of encyclopedia of critters in the game and you need a certain number of each critter to complete your entry. I found that the game balanced pretty well if I stayed in each area until that was done. (I did not enjoy doing that so it was definitely grinding, IMHO.)

Yes, it's open-world. The combat is semi real-time, and there are no random encounters.

Those two statements are not really compatible or I've misinterpretted something.

Long story short. I don't care if it's really turnbased or ATB with pause, openworld or not, etc. There is only one thing that will determine will I add it to my Steam library (if it gets released on PC that is).
Please put cards on the table and agree or disagree if the game is a grinder.

 

[Hexprone]

Joxer, all JRPGs are grinders. You're playing a grinder right now in ff9, and you just finished two others.

The unusual combat system of ff12 does ease the grind a bit. Because you set AI scripts for your party members, you can let easy battles run on autopilot -- while tougher battles will still require your attention and involvement.

 

[joxer]

Joxer, all JRPGs are grinders.

All? Really?
Valkyria Chronicles can be anything but a grinder it is not.

However it can be played as grinder - by repeating the same mission(s) over and over for whatever reason. But then again, it's not just jRPGs.
Here's another example of optional grind in jRPGs - Legend of Heroes:Trails in the Sky. You can grind if you like repetitive stuff, but you can normally finish the game without grinding.

So perhaps I should have asked - to finish the game, is grinding in FF12 mandatory or optional. Or perhaps, does FF12 suffer from Dark Souls syndrome where everyone swears grinding was not needed at all to finish their game yet all of them did - grind, grind, grind.

 

[Elel]

If all JRPGs were grinders I wouldn't play a single one. Fortunately, only two from all I've played required grinding. And one of them could probably be played without it, but I kept running away from random encounters, so I found myself grossly underlevelled for the boss before the final boss. He could one-shot everyone, we simply didn't have enough HP to withstand it

 

[wolfing]

I wasn't a fan of FF12 but I played it for some time until I rage-quit it when after like 1-2 hours of being in a dungeon without a save point, I opened a door that had a boss and it wiped my half health party in the first attack. I read the remaster will have an auto-save feature, maybe I'll try it again.

 

[Carnifex]

That is one thing I love about the ninth Final Fantasy game, anytime I'm on the open world I can save. Yeah some dungeons take a while to do, but I don't stick my head in a new one unless I know I got time. Heck, I've even zoned out once or twice just to save.

 

[Deleted User]

Don't all RPGs essentially have "grinding" in some way?

I mean, you start at level 1, and you have to "grind" your way to level 50.

Gothic, one of the best designed RPGs ever to me, has grinding. You start at level 1 (as in a typical RPG), and you have to "grind" to level up.

Sure, the enemies don't exactly re-spawn like other games, and the importance of each enemy is a bit higher than your typical RPG. You can essentially clear out areas, but you're still expected to kill a certain amount of Scavengers, a certain amount of Molerats, a certain amount of Rippers, etc., to get stronger.

Any RPG that features leveling up, experience points, etc., has "grinding". I'd say "grinding" is an essential aspect to an RPG.

 

[joxer]

That is one thing I love about the ninth Final Fantasy game, anytime I'm on the open world I can save.

Yup, press B to save anywhere while in openworld.
That's something I don't usually see in games from Japan, even PCgamer's last year GOTY failed on it, MGS5 don't have save anywhere but uses checkpoints crap although is openworld.
I've said already now after many hours in the game, although originally made for Atari 400 or something like that, FF9 is much better game than it's successors. It's such a shame stuff from it got axed in newer FF games.

Gothic, one of the best designed RPGs ever to me, has grinding. You start at level 1 (as in a typical RPG), and you have to "grind" to level up.

Grinding in Gothic is not possible.

The word grinding is used by players to describe horrible design where one is forced into annoying and repetitive content just because game designers needed to make the game a bit longer but had no ideas how to make different stuff. This design crime spineless journalists, in order not to get publishers angry, call "theme park" or "busywork".

On superold hardware where games simply couldn't save the worldstate if the game isn't linear, games had to respawn all the same mobs on area transition because it was impossible to "remember" which mob got killed.
Because modern consoles also cannot save anything… For god's sakes did Sony look at HDD prices lately? For what reason they just don't put it in so developers finally move away from this crap design?

The artificial repopulation in recent (singleplayer!) games is used as an excuse by bad designers, "the world would feel empty" they argue not realizing a player won't return on the same spot billion times if there are different honeypots elsewhere. They just don't have enough ideas to make those different honeypots. But IGN still puts 100% on that crap.

 

[Deleted User]

Grinding in Gothic is not possible.

The word grinding is used by players to describe horrible design where one is forced into annoying and repetitive content just because game designers needed to make the game a bit longer but had no ideas how to make different stuff. This design crime spineless journalists, in order not to get publishers angry, call "theme park" or "busywork".

So having to kill 50 or so Scavengers, 25 Molerats, 25 Rippers, etc., to level up and get stronger in Gothic is not considered grinding? Maybe someone out there considers this annoying and repetitive.

You can use the definition you just provided about any RPG in existence. It's also entirely subjective.

Most RPG developers use encounters to display the combat system, provide fun gameplay for the player, provide challenge, and yes, also lengthen the game so it's not entirely running from point A to point B with nothing in between.

When do combat encounters cross the line and become grinding? I think that line is different for everyone.

 

[joxer]

No.
Killing 50 or so scavengers is considered an extinction in Gothic as there are no more of scavengers in the whole game. At least not in that chapter.

Besides, why do you seek level up from dealing with wildlife? Do some fedex quests man.