RPGWatch Feature: Din's Curse Preview
 

Depths of Peril is both one of my favourite indie games and one of the best hack'n'slash action/RPGs I've played. Soldak's third game - Din's Curse - is just around the corner and I've been fiddling with the beta. Here's a snip from the preview:
Read it all here.
More information.

Nice writeup. I'm looking forward to this.

One question I have: If the town gets destroyed and it's game over, do you lose your character? Or can you just start a new town with the same one?

Nope, your character is safe if the town is lost. Just try a little harder on the next town :)

There is a hardcore option though, if you're looking to play the game more like a traditional roguelike. One death and your character is gone, plus under this mode you don't have access to your shared stash.

As FloodSpectre said, the characters are persistent (even into multiplayer). I've started a couple of worlds and decided I didn't like that tileset or it was too quiet and restarted with a new world but kept the character.

Wonderful game! I'm amazed at how quickly the patches are flowing … I've ,missed a couple here or there.

Really nice preview Dhruin. This is probably my most anticipated RPG right now, but I don't have time to help with the beta so I am waiting for Din's to reach 1.0 before I buy.

Congrats to Mr. Peeler as well- this should be a great seller for him.

Ok now you have me interested damn you people.

Yes damn. So many nice games, so much girlfriend time needed in the end so little time for the games :(

Looks promissing

Normally I don't like these hack-and-slash Diablo-esque games, but it's nice to see the developers try something a little different at least. This one does look somewhat interesting.

If its like a Roguelike, I might not have enough time to learn it well enough to actually have fun playing. At least that is my experience with the genre - you really need to invest time to "learn" these games before it becomes anything but frustrating.
Nethack is the only one I ever managed that - because i can play it on the iphone so I played it a lot on the train, on flights, etc.

This is a great game and well worth the 20$ investment for the beta.

It has a true roguelike feeling, as in rather hardcore and tough - but it's mixed with excellent character development mechanics and decent visuals all things considered.

Beyond that, it has some truly novel quest concepts - at least from my point of view, as I haven't really been deeply invested in roguelikes for many years - but they're new to me.

I have a few gripes, though, but it's still early. The loot doesn't seem interesting enough, and the bonuses are kinda boring. Beyond that, I worry that it's TOO samey in terms of constantly rescuing towns with dungeons that aren't very long or follow a particularly interesting progression.

I never cared for rogue-likes so I've not put this game on my radar. I might try the demo one day, if there is one. I generally like huge worlds to explore and this doesn't really fit the mold. Steve will one day make a game that interests me. I like the looks of his games and the polish I hear about, so I look forward to the day.

I'm not sure about this game. I enjoy TomeNET a lot which is a roguelike, and other rogues back to 1990's Moria on the Amiga, but this game… I just don't know. $10 I'd jump on it, but not $20.

Just talk her into playing some multiplayer with you. :)

We keep getting compared to Roguelike games because we have a lot more depth than typical action RPGs, but the game isn't hard to get into.

We will definitely have a demo eventually.

Steven

Any chance of a more extensive set of item bonuses, or haven't I gotten far enough yet?

One of the primary ways of making loot interesting, is to have enough unique bonuses, so as to not have them be predictable. When things get predictable, the carrot of constant progression loses the illusion of meaning, or so I think is the case.

Since you seem to have been somewhat inspired by certain WoW conventions, it wouldn't hurt to peek over their shoulder in terms of phat loot mechanics ;)

Very excited for this! May have to buy in early.

Glad to hear about the demo. $20 is chump change, but I'd still like to know what I'm getting first. Randomizing the game world just kills one of my greatest joys in playing crpgs, and that's uncovering the map and all its secrets.

We do have lots of modifiers included a bunch of proc type effects. Anything specific you are looking for?

You do uncover the map in Din's Curse, there are secrets, and it even has special rooms like vaults and lairs. It's just random and not set in stone each game.

Just to chime in on the "rogue-like" thing. I don't think it actually is a rogue-like - I only used the term to illustrate the random/replay values vs a traditional story campaign. In terms of actual gameplay, it plays like a good hack'n'slasher (Diablo/TQ/Depths of Peril) and has some rogue-like traits (randomisation, random maps, optional hardcore mode, greater depth than common) but it doesn't have the arcane depth of weird commands and situations.

@crpgnut, I don't think this is your ideal game. It's just not an open world explorer. At the end of the day, it's a cool hack'n'slasher where you complete a scenario in a few hours (or get beaten - it's fun to lose occasionally), then rinse-and-repeat at a higher level. Still, there'll be a demo - check it out.

I agree it's not ideal, but I do play the Sacreds, TQ, Kult: Heretic Kingdoms, Dungeon Siege II, and that ilk. This is starting to sound like very short versions of those games. That'd be okay, as I generally enjoy building all the mage variations of those games. I rarely finish those, as I've mentioned in another thread but I did finish TQ, Kult, and DSII once apiece. Didn't finish either Sacred and never really played the Diablos.

I've never been a huge fan of hack'n'slash either - I didn't complete Sacred / 2, TQ or Diablo II, but I tend to enjoy them in short bursts or when they are matched with a strong story or quests (DivDiv - one of my all time favourites, Kult).

What Din's Curse (and DoP) does for me, is scratch that hack'n'slash itch without a big commitment. I played a bunch of DoP on release and moved on to my usual fare. Where it becomes good value for me, is I play a game or two in between those big "must-have" cRPGs or when I just feel like a break from a long game.

I bought this today and its really good and addicting…first level(easiest) took me maybe 3 hours?

Lots of fun.

I forgot to mention dual-wielding as perhaps the single biggest omission - from my point of view ;)

Well, as I said - I haven't progressed far, but I've been keeping an eye on modifiers and what people have been saying in the beta forum. So, maybe they actually ARE in the game, and if so I'm sorry to bring it up ;)

But off the top of my head, I'd love something like:

As many unique proc-based effects as you can manage
Life steal
Life tick
Mana steal
Mana tick
Movement speed
Attack Speed
Skill level increment
Unique skills from other trees
Ignore armor/defense
Ignore damage from traps
Changes to existing skills (like stealth working faster on a cloak)
Immunity to certain attacks/effects
Damage reflection
Spell reflection
Cast time reduction
Position reversal (change position with enemy)

The list goes on and on ;)

But I think the idea is to make the loot aspect appealing and unpredictable. That's why it's great to have both mana tick and steal, for instance, because even though they both do the same thing - it's done in different ways - and one would serve a high direct damage dealer, while the other would supplement a low damage dealer. Basically to make the variety rich and reasonably meaningful. Many designers make the mistake of having no redundancy because they don't think small variations can be entertaining.

I think in a game like Din's Curse - you want to make experimenting with classes and item combinations as appealing and untrivial as possible. There's nothing like feeling you haven't explored a game even after hours and hours of samey dungeons - because you know there are tons of items you haven't found or tried - but it's no good if they're all the same - just more powerful. That's boring.

Out of your list we do currently have Attack Speed, Ignore armor/defense (armor piercing), Cast time reduction, Movement speed, and a bunch of procs.

I'm not positive what you mean by life and mana tick. If it is just normal regen then we have those also.

I will most likely add a bunch more from your list in the next few patches. :)

One of the nice things in Divinity 2 was finding an item with a bonus skill point while wearing it. I wasn't a melee guy in D2, so finding a item with Whirlwind +1 allowed me to use that very functional skill without investing one of my mage-centric points on it. If this is in DC, then that'll be pretty cool.

While I tend to avoid betas, consider my 20 bucks already spent. These days, indie rpg developers are such a breath of fresh air: the feedback, interaction, and speedy patches almost make it worth it alone. Add onto that a solid previous release, interesting new ideas, ….can't wait!

Do +skill items exist in DC? Sadly I have yet to find one :(

Sounds great Steven… Great work so far, though!

No chance of dual-wielding? Too animation heavy, perchance?

I've played about 30 hours thus far and haven't found any. I'm assuming there are none, but there's a possibility of seeing it in the future. Steven's very good when it comes to listening to his players and implementing their suggestions.

Me too. I was hoping when I initially saw towns that it was a huge open world with multiple towns randomly generated with various dungeon and other locations.

ATM Torchlight has done me over on dungeon crawling, so much so that I'm not even able to muster any interest in roguelikes ATM, even my perennial favorite ToME. Of course this might have as much to do with ODing a bit on Dwarf Fortress again a few months ago… played a fortress until it just got to be more tedious than fun, even when generating a new world and starting yet another fortress. (For a while the initial building stages were the best, but then it just got to be too formulaic.)

[EDIT]
All of that said I'm still not a big fan of ARPGs, as I never really got into Diablo 2 and a recent re-install of TQIT has left me blah. The most fun I've had with ARPGs has to have been Divine Divinity and *snicker* Dungeon Lords CE bugs, warts, and all.

I guess that ph47 1007 and incessant levelling alone doesn't a game for me make.
[/EDIT]

No there aren't any right now. We do have a number of procs that duplicate other skills though.

I have dual wielding on my long list of things to possibly do but I'm not sure how feasible it is.

Luckily we have a lot more going on then just loot and leveling. :)

Gotta say I like that answer:)

I have played probably 6 gours in the last day after buying it….gotta say you have done a great job. I'm a little dissapointed in the sets in that they don't seem to be all that good….(maybe just bad drops?) And gotta lovea unique cursed item…hahaha….I love the way cursed items work though, they aren't junk just have a negative in some way.

Lookin forward to see what else you add:) Dual weilding would be nice, but I would rather you look at adding some more unique areas.

Just picked it up. Alas, I'm getting a ctd upon start up. I haven't gotten around to figuring out why yet.

Usually crashes at startup are graphics or sound card driver related so I would make sure both are updated.

They are. If I disconnect my HDTV and only have my monitor connected then it'll start up, but the mouse and the menus don't seam to align properly. I'll piddle with it a bit, just haven't had the time to do so yet. Did a little searching on the forums and didn't see a similar problem, so just figured I'd trouble shoot a bit before I posted.

Fate and even more Torchlight brought back my curiosity about such game, well in fact create it as Diablo 2 that I enjoyed but didn't played much, didn't generate such curiosity for Diablo like games, apart Titan Quest not finished I don't remember any (I consider Dungeon Siege series in another category because control a party is much different). So after to have read the nice preview I gave it a try.

Dam the pressure put on the player is a lot too high for me, I mean the time pressure. I'm surprise nobody else is whining about that, I'm probably becoming too old and now high emotions don't suit me anymore. :-/ It's not the pressure but the time pressure that is too much for me, I like pressure but much less time pressure.

Curious I tried Depths of Peril that in the past I never pushed more than few minutes (because of graphics and the confusion generated by the relative complexity). This time I played longer DoP, probably a bit more than Din, quite same pressure everything go too fast for me.

I have seen on the site a mod for DoP to slow down pace, perhaps I should try. Also I tried in Din the slower mode with less xp but more time but didn't felt much the difference and felt harassed anyway.

For the classes and skills, a quick look seems to me they are less singular and less different than those in Torchlight, in fact Torchlight skills plus spells seems to me offer more real variations. But there's a nice deal of variation and the use of dual classes is a cool design choice. Also there's at least one cool thing highlighted by the review and that I tried, the sneak character, something that hasn't Torchlight if I remember well. I found it well done. I'll give a second shot with such character and with slow mode activated since the start.

I wonder why there isn't an even slower mod, perhaps the core of the game is to have a time pressure and will not work as well without it. Fights have seem to me quite less deep than in Torchlight but there's possibly some points I didn't noticed. I spend a good time to try both demo but the insane time pressure make me hesitant. The series worth some bucks from me but not sure in what game put it.

I wish that there was a "relaxed" mode, where the quest timers are turned off. I hate timed quests. Other than that, the demo was fun.

You think that's it?? I could never get into a rogue-like (except if you include Diablo 2, which you probably won't). Maybe this is the reason, because I certainly don't have the patience to keep on hammering until I "get it". Well, unless I know that I'll "get it" eventually, as a reward of sorts. There have been a few very promising rogue-likes on iPhone, like Sword of Fargoal, but I'm afraid to get them and find out I lose interest in 5 minutes.

I'm hooked on this.

I totally understand that feeling. I have a hint about that, first there's an option for slower mode, so check it. But the important point is that if you want to get a slower pace about quests you need change a little you usual way of playing:

• A first point, is never lost time in inventory management, merchants and talks. For all of them do them in pause mode, you can.
• A second point is, make the quests your priority. In most RPG explore every corners and grab all stuff is the top priority, here you should better give up those goals. By doing that you'll win a lot of time and the gameplay will be more fun.
• A third point is to try minimize you travel back to town. It's significant time lost here.

But the truth is that the gameplay is better when you are in hurry and fail at least some quests. The problem is that RPG players aren't used to this and this can be a little frustrating sometimes. Failed quests will setup for you the best examples of consequences and time hurry will focus gameplay on more fun elements, like how reach faster a level, manage the portals, much less travel back to town because you pick and sell less junk, hazards becomes more important because of their impact on time, and more.

About Rogue-like, I played few and there isn't much link with them. The tiny link is a bit more focus on hazards than in usual Diablo like but it's far to be like in some Roguelike. Also Roguelike are much more rude with the player there's no comparison. Many Roguelike also develop the important events thing but not at same level than in Din, it's more to inform you of an important event in a maze that random generate, and most often hidden behind a sentence or sound information you need decipher and learn or find in a walkthrough and learn identify.

But it's possible that the Din gameplay is a little out of the standards and it takes a bit more time to decipher it better. Well if you don't like, that's it. If you are unsure I think it's better stick to a character and push it to a higher level, like 12/14. The problem is that the demo limit monsters levels and you'll probably won't be able do it (I'm using the beta version got through pre order).

A key element of the game is the events, it's easy not notice them much but then you'll miss most of the fun. Quote they aren't lost and you can scroll them in case you didn't quote some. Those events can allow you identify new quests and make some without go back in town, or back in town to get the new. They get you informed about consequences and important evolutions. Some events will let you identify that a threatening is on road to attack the town and sometimes you have an opportunity to break it if you are in the same level. In an area I think you get more detailed events about the area and you could take care of them, like a monster that became stronger, or an important monster building something when you have a quest to hunt him, then it means you are in hurry to achieve this quest, and more.

I can understand that, myself I'm hooked too but only in part, I wish classes skills and fights was more fun, in particular I find the fights quite less fun and less deep than in Torchlight. But that could depend of your class choices and for now didn't tried yet real mages and real warriors classes.

Totally out of topic, Torchligh and Din's Curse made me a little crazy about ARPG that's never been my favorite games. I installed back or tried replay a bit Diablo 2 and Titan Quest and come back once more a bit on Fate. I end being a little frustrated, both a little obsessed by those sort of games and a little frustrated at same time.

It hurts me how all those game abuse a lot of items drops and involve a lot too many sells and items management. It's weird none tried some more different variations and all follow some standards setup by Diablo series but standards that aren't necessary obvious good gameplay (plenty back in town to sell stuff break a lot the gameplay).