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-   -   Why is Gothic 3 branded "BAD" ? (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10426)

Twotricks April 23rd, 2010 20:31

Why is Gothic 3 branded "BAD" ?
On my quest to rediscover the fun i had in Risen (yes never played Gothic series before) i have got all three Gothic games.

1 and 2 are really excellent. With tight story and great RPG values.

But I was really surprised about Gothic 3!

The game is actually not half bad. Sure it feels almost nothing like Gothic. And fighting system is pretty bad compared to other Gothic games. And its storytelling is shallower.

But what it lacks in above it more than makes up in its free roaming freedom sandbox rpg extravagance.

Its almost like TES Oblivion , done good.

Not to mention that on modern PC the game looks awesome and runs like warm butter.

I feel like just hitting the road and exploring every notch and cranny.
And Gothic 3 is perfect for that. (shame there are no horses)

JemyM April 23rd, 2010 20:59

I enjoyed Gothic III very much. That year both NWN2 and Oblivion was released and I still enjoyed G3 the most.

curious April 23rd, 2010 21:38

gothic 3 took on too much
had too many people too please
had too big of shoes to follow
and so…
was a big failure
but not in everyones eyes
i played close to 80 hours in my first playthrough on only the 1st official patch and didin't have a single bug or crash.
the game is still probably in my 20 rpgs even though it did weaken the greatness of the gothic brand…
the pirahnas are great developers and risen was a fine game…though i liked it less than gothic 3. first of there games i've only played through once. i personally think that they learned their lesson with gothic 3 not to let the game grow to large. i think now they need to focus on evolving, as they are good at what they do but if they don't deviate from their 'safe' formula a bit more i think they will find that risen 2 could be their oblivioin (not the game) and that would be tragic.

Prime Junta April 23rd, 2010 22:08

With the community patches, it's not bad at all. I never managed to finish it -- not even close, I think --, but I had plenty of good times adventuring in it.

I think it owes its bad reputation largely to the state it was in when it came out. It was a near-unplayable, bug-ridden, ugly mess, with game-breaking problems galore, not to mention relatively minor things like memory leaks, performance issues, clipping problems, horrible, horrible balance problems like the stun-locking boars, and so on and so forth ad nauseam. Seriously, it was among the worst offenders in this respect, in a genre where zero-day patches are the norm.

JemyM April 23rd, 2010 22:15

I finished the game when it still killed your quicksaves and had instakill boars in it. :)

The ending was good and the main story can be seen as a criticism against certain real-world factions which I thought was nice.

Gorath April 23rd, 2010 22:16

Yes, the community patches made G3 a solid game, and if you really want a sand box game without story maybe even a good game. The world design is fantastic, as in every PB game.

I consider G3 unplayable without the CPs. They fixed more than 1000 issues.

curious April 23rd, 2010 22:58

the only time "fixed" is an absolute word is when it comes to dogs. in games or otherwise peoples "fixes" may solve one problem but lead to others. i tend too think game mod communities think a bit too highly of themselves, since fixes often implies that they know how it should be over a dev. to me those community patches were a bit to much of an atrocity exhibition. like i said not everyone had "a buggy mess". same goes with bloodlines. i've played with wesp's patch and i enjoyed it due to restored content and any tweaks were neither notable in a good or bad way…simply liked the restored "backgrounds" selection. however with bloodlines i also played through the game with the official patch and no problems. my second playthrough i did run into a bug trying to leave grouts lair. still to me i always am much more understanding of the devs creativeness than the modders attempt to have things their way. basically people want deep complex games but also a flawless game. guess what folks "having it your way" means getting a consolized charred grey burger. if you want a seven course meal you don't ask the waiter for "extra mayo" and the like. but i'm sure some will argue they have some kind of right to demand a perfect/flawless game since they put forth a grand $30-50 which payed for about 1/2 a texture of a glove. {enter the loudest laughter possible}

JDR13 April 24th, 2010 00:39

I'm not always a big fan of community patches, but for Gothic 3 they were a definite plus. I don't see how anyone could argue against that.

Still, even with the final patch, G3 lacks some of the atmosphere that made the first two games the classics that they are. Also, while I enjoy an epic game, I felt that G3 was actually *too* long. There were way too many simple quests that got me burned out before I could finish it.

Dasale April 24th, 2010 01:13

As many people know here I dislike a lot Gothic 3. Why?

I didn't get that many bugs in fact I don't remember any. It's just the gameplay, I didn't found back at all the quality of Gothic 2 + NoTR. And from very very far.

Here what hurt me:
  • First the fights, for me they behave like crap in comparison with Gothic 2 + NOTR. First seconds I played Risen I found back the fun of fights in Gothic 2 + NOTR.
  • The world contents : I felt it rather dull and empty when compared to Gothic 2 + NOTR. I felt it like a diluted game to get bigger size.
  • The main story: Didn't believe it at all, I get hurt rather soon by how illogical is that Orcs let a human wanderer freely.
  • The alternate choices: It was a good point in Gothic 2 + NOTR and quite pale in comparison in G3.

That said it's a lot of disappointment and partially real lack of quality. The point is because of those weakness I get a relative fun very diluted and because of the fights I get a lot of unpleasant time.

I think people dexterous enough to master G3 fights enjoyed it because fights fun fill enough the game for them, those not enough dexterous didn't enjoyed it because fights wasn't here to fill the holes.

curious April 24th, 2010 08:31

melee combat did take a turn for the worse, while magic was about the same, and finally ranged combat actually took some skill and was quite enjoyable other than just stat sniping from crazy positions like the prior games. so many elite orcs…

to me gothic 3 is still the best 3d game world. i took my time my first playthrough and finished the middle kingdom before moving to varant and then to nordmar. the regions totally sucked me in and nordmar especially blew me away as i'd never played any region in a game that felt that fresh, and oppresive due to its sheer confusing heights, relentless snow, and before patch #2 huge packs of animals. i have a feeling a lot of folks moved all over the place and the sheer vastness of the gameworld comined with the underwhelming story probably made it less enjoyable. in prior gothics you could go off and explore and then go back to a handful of hubs, gothic 3 simply didn't have that benefit or direction.

the main problems i had with gothic 3 were the weak main story and the terrible homage to the supporting cast of the prior games. the other minor characters were great. also the orcs did not let you wander around. many were hostile always. others blocked access, and besides they had the mercenaries who had their freedoms as well. also i think orcs could be classified as an arrogant race, and as such they probably weren't to affraid of what one lousy 'mora' could do.

@JDR13-the short answer which i've said before, down is not up, 2+2 is not equal to 5 and a nordmarian is not a 12th paladin. people want simple answers, refuse to see the invisible even its clearly deducable. a fire chalice is required for paladin powers when rune magic is gone. if the nameless seeks such powers a chalice he be a needin. but oh shit i turned it in to that nordmarian at the fire clan. damn you piranhas the game is broken. this is what could have happened had the 12th fire chalice been able to be given away. then someone would have bitched and moaned that they couldn't become a paladin.

JDR13 April 24th, 2010 08:36


The bottom line is that the community patches fixed a shitload of bugs, and improved the game for the majority of us.

JemyM April 24th, 2010 11:03

I also loved how different the north, the midlands and the south felt. It was the first and only time I think that I really felt that I am moving across cultures in a computer RPG.

I also liked the overarching plot. You go into the game with presumptions. You probably think, like I did, that you are presented with the classic choice between two endings (good vs evil), just like most games from Bioware.


I also liked the basic structure of the game.
* Each place had it's own subplot that could be taken in any order.
* When you made progress somewhere you gain reputation with a faction, this reputation moved over into new areas.
* You begin your quest in search for 12 chalices spread out across the nation as well as the goal of finding a NPC. Searching for the chalices (that can be done in any order) brings you closer to the NPC but it is in the end optional to complete it.

This means that the game really promotes and rewards exploration in a way that no other free-roaming title I played offered, not Oblivion, not Fallout 3, not Two Worlds. No matter what direction you move from the beginning, you will make progress. You don't NEED to go to a specific place you NEED to explore.

Dasale April 24th, 2010 13:35


Originally Posted by curious (Post 1061008671)
…also the orcs did not let you wander around. many were hostile always. others blocked access, and besides they had the mercenaries who had their freedoms as well. also i think orcs could be classified as an arrogant race, and as such they probably weren't to affraid of what one lousy 'mora' could do….

Mercenary camp, among first quests, quest: get patch of weapons… Orcs guards that took patch of weapons… You just pick up…. Any town orcs, you just enter and eventually get one question or two nothing more.

You explanation about arrogant is quick, any rebel that has nothing different than the hero, is immediately assault.

For mercenaries, all are identified, not stranger wandering. The game put the hero in a totally unique position but provide no valid explanation about this.

Wulf April 24th, 2010 14:10

Of course there was an in-game explanation by Phil the undercover agent in Cape Dunn. He explains that any helping of the mercenaries is in fact helping the orcs, no secret there!

curious April 25th, 2010 00:25

since when is ai supposed to act like a game player? you're saying orcs are recognizing the orc mercenary naming? clearing a game can't allow you the freedom to choose factions but at the same time limiting access. i think gothic 3 did it better than the prior games, i guess people were just accustomed to that. i mean its not thief or hitman where changing disquises is part of the mo. i would think your reputation and your mug would be your recognizing traits not if you were were bandit, digger, or mage armour. gothic 3 had a nice tiered reputation system that i can't think of a game which has done it better.

also in regards to community…(and a bit off topic)
i don't buy games made by players. they are not the ones with the ideas nor the initial creativity nor the countless hours spent which they had to be hired and proven capable of doing. if you look at the average score for mount and blade warband on gamespot over 400 people have given it an 8.8 score, yet if you look at a review of 1.0 what does the gamer say? devs are stealing mod ideas and its not worth it. to me this is the mentality of many modders or at least heavy users of them. modding has its place but without the countless hours of creativity and hard work modders would have nothing. many people are good mechanics but try building a car from nothing but nuts and bolts.

also in regards to the average gamer catching or looking for the meta layers of quests and lore, its not much beyond point and shoot and fedex mentality. obviously rpg gamers are more refined but still checking the global achievements for metro 2033 was depressing. 70% played long enough to actually kill something, which doesn't take that long. 30% finished the game and got the ending "if its hostile you kill it". there is another ending as well which the game gives many often obtuse insights to. less than 3% earned this ending achievement "enlightened", and probably much less on their first playthrough…

so the moral of that story is yes i lothe the gothic 3 community patches and while i expect few to agree with that, as long as the pirahnas stay in business, people can mod all they want , since the pirahnas longevity proves they know what they are doing, though of course are not perfect.

Maylander April 26th, 2010 13:59

Played through it several times before the community patched anything. Considered it a great game back then, consider it a great game now. I realize that many had technical issues that I did not, which is probably the main reason so many consider it a poor game.

To me, G3 remains an unpolished gem - a project that was a bit over ambitious. The music, atmosphere and culture (orcs, vikings, arabics, medieval) are all top notch; among the best ever made in my opinion (example: Put on a good headset, pump up the graphics, and run along the grassy plains north of Silden while looking at the waterfall etc).

JDR13 April 26th, 2010 22:28


Originally Posted by Maylander (Post 1061008882)
(example: Put on a good headset, pump up the graphics, and run along the grassy plains north of Silden while looking at the waterfall etc).

Yep, G3 has an *excellent* atmosphere due to the visuals and sound. I still think it has the best landscapes in a crpg almost 4 years after release. If only the quest design hadn't been so overly repetitive…

Thrasher April 26th, 2010 22:32

Gah, I need to play this…

Icedani May 31st, 2010 18:51

In my opinion, Gothic 3 is a great game! Altough it was released in 2006 I play it since winter 2009 ( got a good pc to run it ). Thanks to the great Community Patch Team who made the game playable:* (seriously, i haven't met any bugs) i do enjoy it.

bloodlover August 9th, 2010 01:15

I like this game very much, though I could never finish it due to lack of time. The reason why so many people hate it is probably because everyone keeps comparing it to G2. It was a but unpolished I agree on that one and at the game it had huge requirements and bad optimizing for 2006 but the quality of a game is not given by those elements imo. If someone is really into RPGs then such things won't matter. I am planning to start it again with the last community patch (I have like two more weeks of free time to spare).

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