Better with a controller?
 

Have you tried the game with a controller? The combat and UI looks set up for it better.

No I haven't - but I honestly think the UI and combat work just fine for mouse/kb. I'm not seeing the "console" aspects people are talking about.

It's an action RPG, for sure, but there's nothing particularly "consolish" about it - from where I'm sitting.

The "feel" of the game is pretty close to Gothic 3 combat - except it's actually balanced and requires skill and careful timing. Somewhat faster paced, though, and groups are a pain - because unlike Gothic 3 - they don't just stand around waiting for their turn to attack.

I think the gamepad controls work well but I also think the keyboard and mouse controls and ui work just fine and I don't think they were sacrificed for the gamepad functionality.

The only really issue for me on the keyboard/mouse controls is the glaring omission of configuration options like remapping keys and inverting the mouse etc, but those can by done by modifying the ini files and CD Prokekt has stated they will be added at some future point to the game options.

You can remap keys using the config utility under input settings

It would be nice to have it in the game though. Ditto for changing graphic settings really.

Also the configuration program's input options are somewhat limited, like it won't let you remap WASD to the arrow keys or invert the mouse movement, though you can do that by tinkering around with the ini files.

I could imagine it would work very well with a controller, but I find it works perfectly with the keyboard and mouse as well. But the combat does have a learning curve. Would have no matter the controls used, you have to learn how to use positioning and the signs / bombs /traps effectively for group combat. Which is a good thing, in my book. I feel much more encouraged to use signs and alchemy than I ever have in the Witcher, and that is still in the prologue…

WASD to arrow keys ? Now why would you do that ?

As for inverting mouse , again strange preference. But they said its comming in the patch

I play with Belkin n52te and mouse. I think you don't need a controller but the n52te makes it bit more convenient than a keyboard.

How is the UI set up for a controller?

Because controllers have very limited buttons, UI's designed for controllers have you "select" which skill or item you're going to use ahead of time ( typically with the new radial menus have that become so prevalent lately ) and then a separate button to use it. Mouse & Keyboard oriented interfaces have a hotkey bar that each is mapped to a different button on the keyboard ( nearly universally standardized to 1-0 on the keyboard ). TW2 doesn't even show you the unselected items, in the lower left corner it shows you the selected sign, and the selected item only. Compare: TW2, Alpha Protocol and Mass Effect to: Risen, WoW or NWN

Since it's very difficult to emulate a mouse with a joystick's hat switch, games built for controllers will use lists to display items that you hit a button to equip instead of a free roaming mouse pointer that can drag & drop. These lists typically don't include mouseovers (I believe because the hover delay doesn't really work with a list), so they need extra permanent screen real estate to show the stats of that item. Compare: TW2, Oblivion and Mass Effect to: WoW, Morrowind or Risen.

Also in the same problem a hat switch is a poor replacement for mouse, consoles use Auto-Targeting (or auto-aiming in a FPS) of what it thinks you're trying to look at. The auto-targeting of TW2 seems to be the basis for a lot of the complaints people are having right now about combat targeting and looting. Compare this to the center of screen targeting from Risen that knows you're using a mouse and that you can target the item in front of you with a high precision. Worse, ( bugged? ) TW2 is auto-targeting things no where near the center of my screen, I'm extinguishing torches in the prison during combat way too often.

The afore mentioned radial menu is a clear indication the UI was built for a joystick. It's radial because it's easier for a controller to spin the hat switch around it's outer boundaries to easily select a menu item. However these are often limited in the total number of options available ( often ~8 for the primary directions of hat switch ) because if the radial menu has too many choices, it can be difficult to precisely target a "wedge of the pie".

Also, the lack of a function for the mouse wheel really makes me think using the mouse & keyboard was an afterthought. What developer playing this game with a mouse would not have noticed the mousewheel isn't used for anything? Not even the simplest thing I can think of, which would be selecting the next or previous sign during combat, is supported.

In the Witcher 1 prologue you made the fight against the mage without using sign? If you did, when I'll try TW2 I'll better remember setup difficulty to casual.

Well I suppose you never played TW1, or perhaps you think this game was also targeted for console despite it's never been released for any console?

Im a huge witcher 2 supporter, have been singing their praises for months and am really enjoying the game but anyone who doesn't think the controls were made with at least the thought of bringing it to consoles is kidding themselves. I wasn't 15 min. In and I got that console vibe. That doesn't mean its not still awesome though.

Back to the original question: I thought it worked very well with a gamepad. I am still kind of undecided on how I will control the game, but since I'm playing in the living room on a 37" LCD TV, and I like not having a keyboard on my lap during gaming, I will probably go with the gamepad.

The game's interface design surely does take gamepad controls into consideration, maybe to the point of sacrificing some keyboard/mouse features, but maybe not necessarily for the possible release on consoles (but that is easy to conclude). I mean, gamepads *are* usuable on PC. :)

Sure they want to bring it to consoles. They said as much, and I am sure they don't want another bungled attempt like with the Wither 1. So it makes sense that they made certain decisions that will ease the porting to console, but that doesn't mean it was built with console in mind first and foremost. It is to be ported to console from the PC, not the other way round. Gfx, for example will have to be seriously toned down for current gen consoles, I would think. Although I may have to thank consoles for the decent looking low settings that I am playing on. The fonts are much too small for consoles, too.

Yes, they are. I've said it before and I'll say it again: not every PC gamer plays on a monitor! But it's still perfectly playable with those small fonts, just not very comfortable.

I tried using my Xbox 360 controller, and would still be using it, but there's no feature to invert the camera look-around. That's critical for me.

Yes I played TW1, beat it several times, but it's been a while. I wondered if the sign selection was similar to to TW1 but I couldn't recall exactly, been too long. I don't seem to remember having nearly as many problems selecting & using the signs in TW1 though, but I don't recall how you selected or cast signs in TW1, I also used less signs in 1 than I try to use in 2 ( mostly due to combat difficulty ).

But I don't believe just because TW1 had one similar UI mechanic that the rest of my points are invalid. It's also a fairly rare mechanic for PC only titles.

And it's fairly ancillary to the point but they did try to release TW1 for consoles but the 3rd party porter they hired mucked up the job too badly to bother.

I really miss the stances/combos of TW1… gets old only having a "light" and "heavy" attack.

The world is great, the story is (so far) great, but the gameplay is lacking for me.

The truth is I also don't remember well but I think it was the same system. For TW1 fights at Hard I felt it somehow difficult in general and sometimes very difficult. But well I didn't develop much my character around signs so I end also not use them much finally. But I'm almost sure TW1 was relatively well design so you concentrate more on developing signs and use them more in fights, a player choice.

I don't disagree fully on your analyze but I think you want proves it so much that you forget use a larger point of view and can't see some other good reasons than console could have lead to some of those design points.

About the signs working with a selection key and an action key:
Even on PC many players don't like have to use ton of shortcut keys during action. TW1 had already its load of shortcuts, 3 fight modes, 3 custom shortcuts, 4 movement keys, jump key. Add to that 5 weapons keys and 5 or 6 sign keys, and they consider it too much and I agree. So instead they choose design an action game with pause, allowing less action keys and use pause for some selection, selection for fight mode, selection for weapon, selection for sign and just 2 actions keys for all of that, attack and cast sign.

About the lack of shortcuts bar:
I think you don't realize the obsession of modern games about immersion, hence a large bar of shortcuts is considered as immersion breaking.

Also your comparison with a game like NWN2 is totally wrong because it's a non action game and a mouse game, both justifying totally the bars of shortcuts. An action game with no mouse point and click controls during action makes this choice doubtful.

About auto targeting:
I haven't played the game yet, but I think I know where it goes, on a fight system designed for an acquired target. If you remove auto targeting you will most certainly get a strange system I experimented a little in another game. In that system you need first acquire a target then can start fight, it's rather awful for fighting groups. TW2 had the requirement for fighting groups, there's a good chance it's the true reason of the auto targeting (group fights and a system requiring to acquire a target).

For the mouse wheel:
I always wondered why I had always commands linked to that crap, perhaps they also estimated it's not good as a default? And the problem is larger, it's the customization of controls is quite limited. TW1 had a similar flaws, more than console influence, it's more probably an underestimation of custom controls by the team.

So this let the inventory and menus managements, for sure consoles are the reason behind that points. Other than that, I'm not sure at all you are right for the other points.

Come on guys - the combat controls in TW 2 are indeed more "actiony" than on TW 1.

TW1 controls were perfect for keyboard/mouse. Given the whole pallawa that CDprojekt had with the devs who were supposed to convert TW1 to console for them, perhaps they decided to do most of the work themselves this time, and make it more controller friendly from the start.

Playing third person games is more comfortable with controller anyway. So…good for me, since I prefer it now. Mouse for strategy/first person always though.

I agree with this, TW2 is definatly more Consoely, and its pretty sad a supposedly designed for PC Game works so much better with a controller. TW1 definatly had better kb/mouse controls, because the Aurora engine was indeed a engine that was 100% for PCs as opposed to the Red Engine. Still the combat is as bad as gothic games, and the whole thing is poorly balanced for anyone who isnt masochistic. I just dont see what some of our old school fellows are saying about this 'great balanced' system. I really hope more games take a page from TW2 on Story writing and world design but goddess forbid them from using similar combat systems.

Regardless, I'd almost wager real world money TW2 will be on consoles by next year if not sooner, it seems like it'd be so easy to port it over, of course I'd also bet the difficulty gets toned down, no one is dumb enough to release a ultra hard game on consoles. Even DKS and DA:O had "alternate balancing" on consoles.

What a load of bollocks. The PC had game controllers for almost as long as there are games for it. They are not exclusive to consoles and PC gaming does not equal keyboard + mouse.

Really, the engine has little to do with controls besides I/O. In fact, the KOTORs also use an updated version of Aurora.

Ha! The Gothic games had one of the best combat I've ever seen in my life!

They'd be stupid not to, regardless if TW2 was designed with the PC in mind.

Hmpf. Try Demons Souls or Ninja Gaiden one day.

Can you name another PC "exclusive" RPG that uses a gamepad as it's preferred control method?

What percentage of PC games outside of serious flight sims (joystick & throttle) and racing games (wheel & peddles) that prefer a controller of any sort over keyboard & mouse input? 1%? I seriously doubt 5%.

I can't speak for Gothic 1. Gothic 2 had great combat balance but the controls were a little stiff. Gothic 3 combat at release was atrocious and only got marginally better even with all the community patches. Risen was the best of the bunch and I wish I could take it's movement & camera controls and put them into TW2 instead of it's current gamepad oriented controls.

Claiming that TW2 works "better" with a controller is opinion, not fact. Other than the annoyance of not being able to remap all the keys (which is easily bypassed with a keymapper), TW2 felt just like any other PC game to me.

Whatever just bring the path I'm getting tired of using WASD for movement keys. That's why I loved the first game I played it just with a mouse.

Is a gamepad really the preferred control method for The Witcher 2? Like JDR13 says, it's a matter of opinion. I tried it with keyboard today, works fine. Yes, even the UI, although improvements can be made. I even think the UI works a bit better with keyboard and mouse, since you can click anywhere.

And why would you exclude joysticks and racing wheels? That's just silly. Someone said somewhere that FPS games and strategy games (TBS/RTS) work better with mouse on PC. This is obvious. Other than that, there aren't that many recent PC exclusives left that I can think of. Some of them are bound to include gamepad support out of the box. I bet it's more than 5%, but why try to prove the point.

Oh, as for the Gothics, I was talking about the first two only. The controls felt awkward in the beginning only because your character was still learning how to fight. The feeling of progression was fantastic.

I mapped the controls to a gamepad when I played them. The game did not support it out of the box, but to me if was the preferred control method, at least.

This plays great with a controller, as if it was made for one - not that comfortable with Mouse + KB.

I started TW2 a couple of days ago and came looking for this thread as I knew it would be here. The console nature of the interface hit me straight away. It isn't anything like the one used for Dungeon Seige 3 but it is still there.

What really gave it away is how the movement keys work.
In all PC games WASD work similar to this:
W forward, S makes your character walk/run backwards, A/D makes your character turn in that direction or strafe in that direction.

In most console games (and how TW2 works) W is still forwards (or up the screen) but S makes your character turn around and run down the screen. A/D make your character turn and run in that direction. This setup on a PC game with a keyboard is really disconcerting.
In a fight I can't make my character backup. Pressing S causes him to turn around around and run away, not what I wanted at all.

This control set up makes it more natural to play with a controller.

It is not about controller vs QASD. It is about combat based on mobility (light armour eg) and combat based on attrition (heavy armour eg).

The Witcher is like a whirlwind (well implemented thanks to auto targeter) in a battle, moving fast to strike here or strike there to keep everyone on the backfoot and avoid being surrounded as his attrition capacity is low, the most valuable chance to survive when facing opponents that have largely superior attrition survival capacity.

Take a loot at Skyrim videos which I think were displayed on consoles. It is heavy armoured style of fighting: backwards puts the character on backpedal, mobility is tertiary importance.

Other consoles games (with controllers) have that that a character locking on a target backpedals (slow movement), when unlocked, the character runs in the backwards direction.
Other games make use of analogics control (soft pressure on stick gives the character to backpedal, heavy pressure on stick gives the character to run backwards)

It is all the issue of a game like The Witcher 2 which gives a fairly consistent version of combat based on the qualities of the character while it appears players would prefer another version, much less consistent but more suited to their tastes (id est a light fighter fighting like a heavy fighter in the present case)

No, it is about the movement style. How awkward is it in a tight room trying to get a chest highlighted to loot?
Geralt looks like an idiot as he crashes from one side of the room to the other to get the loot icon up on screen.
The WASD movement style implemented in The Witcher 2 is a complete pain in the arse to use with a keyboard.

Mobile fighters are to be ill at ease in tight space.

Chest, door opening trouble is a by product of this requirement. This said, putting the character on walk instead of run eases heavily the trouble.

That doesn't make it a console interface. Two Worlds controls the same way, and I don't see people claiming that it feels like a console game, just that they don't like the camera.

It sounds like you're just more accustomed to a "chase cam" where the view is locked behind you, like in the Gothic series or Elder Scrolls. I'm the same way, and so are a lot of other members here.

You don't need to move Geralt to change what's being highlighted. I was making the same mistake for awhile. You only need to change the viewing angle with your mouse. It's still not perfect, but I prefer that over wrestling with the analog sticks on a gamepad.

I don't remember the first Two Worlds being like that. I haven't played the second one but if it has the same controls that would be disappointing.

Thank you, chase cam was the term I was looking for.
I much prefer the chase cam style and see no reason why it wouldn't be implemented on a game controlled by a keyboard and mouse. Unless you are also developing for console and are lazy.

Skipped most of this argument, but my two cents is this: I'm playing TW2 with an xbox controller. It feels better to me than keyboard and mouse. In fact, ever since I bought the controller 2 years ago, I play every single game that way except for strategy games which by nature require the keyboard. I am thrilled that they have included support for my controller, and I couldn't care less about how it weighs in with the PC versus console debate. I have always been and will always be a PC gamer.. Just give me my controller to use with it!

Ah, I forgot to mention one thing - I really wish they would have supported feedback vibration with this game. If ever there was a gimmick in gaming, it's not 3D… Oh no, it's force feedback. Dumbest thing they ever made. In this one particular case however, it would have been so awesome if they made the controller vibrate when Geralt's medallion was triggered! I find sometimes that monsters get the jump on me because the icon for the medallion is so small and the music sometimes doesn't change quick enough.