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-   -   Grimoire Kickstarter (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17968)

Cleveland Mark Blakemore September 5th, 2012 16:17

Grimoire Kickstarter

redman5427 September 5th, 2012 16:30


and you thought it would never be finished!
This announcement is so off the wall.
So, Cleve, if fans send you money, will it actually go to the game? Will you actually hire people to work on it? These are honest questions and I am not trying to pick on you although you have made it easy over the years.

Cleveland Mark Blakemore September 5th, 2012 16:38


JDR13 September 5th, 2012 21:57

Is it April 1st again already?

Pladio September 5th, 2012 22:17

This guy is a joker

redman5427 September 5th, 2012 22:30


I need to know if there is any interest in the game to make it worth my time. I don't just sit around idly thinking of stuff I could work on for a lark.

I may need to contract some completion artwork and maybe a C++ coder to help me get it fully compatible with all Windows platforms and start work on the ports to IOS and other devices.
This part is what investors want to hear. Write everything down on a list so people can see whats left to be done and an exact time frame for each step.


I could have finished it anytime I wanted to.
This part is not what investors want to hear. You have to admit that you have wrapped this statement with a bit of attitude. Stick with Good Cleve and put Angry Cleve back in the closet.

metamorphium September 5th, 2012 23:40

I think that posting those videos was a great move and half of myself was convinced to donate. Now the other half though watches this game since the beginning of the time and knows about all the false promises and delays.

My personal two cents for the campaign to succeed:

1. Release a new demo together with a kickstarter. This will be way more then just promises. With a demo (I vaguely recall Corwin, mentioning ages ago on the site which is no more, that it's very long) even if you somehow didn't succeed in delivering, I'd personally consider the donation well spent as I will at least get something tangible. After all, Kickstarter is not a preorder service, as is nowadays perceived and I hope a few people still remember its true purpose.

2. Release a proper roadmap and try to stick to as much as possible. We, who watched the game, know how all beta, gamma, delta and omikron tests ended up - you've rewritten a whole parts of the game. :)

3. Keep everyone updated. Not in the year period, but rather in week period. This could help you stay on track in case you get necessary funding.

4. Prepare for the fact, that kickstarter campaign done right is hard and fulltime job. Just saying…

I presume that you are doing the kickstarter not for sake of getting money to finish it but to get a feeling of pressure to finally finish it. It's a great move but also I believe that even the most faithful fans are now a bit skeptical.

That's why I've posted this feedback which tries to be as little influenced by the past as possible.

Oh… And please don't put there ANY kind of stretch goals. :D

sakichop September 5th, 2012 23:51


Originally Posted by redman5427 (Post 1061160069)
This part is what investors want to hear. Write everything down on a list so people can see whats left to be done and an exact time frame for each step.

This part is not what investors want to hear. You have to admit that you have wrapped this statement with a bit of attitude. Stick with Good Cleve and put Angry Cleve back in the closet.

You forgot to include the part where he wrote " any time I just started to care about it"

If he doesn't care about why should we?

Too many good kick starters to invest in rather than one with that kind of attitude.

azraelck September 6th, 2012 03:10

I'm sorry, but after so many years and so many slipped dates given, Grimoire is somewhat of a joke to the indie game and crpg communities. I've watched this one off and on for more than a decade now, longer than I've been a lurker here at the Watch.

As a potential investor, the long history speaks volumes to me. The arrogance that the initial post here portrayed speaks more. I don't want to see a known failed product that has been "coming this year" since back when Pentium 1's roamed the earth and 56k modems were commonplace. I don't want to invest in a developer who claims that he could have finished it but just couldn't be bothered.

Sorry. If Grimoire is ever released, I'll buy it, as it does look like the kind of game I'd enjoy. Not until then, however, will I put any money into it or it's developer. Too many more believable developers and projects to look at, too many good games available already to buy.

I won't hold me breath though. I expect more of the same, to be frank. Which is why I cannot, in good faith, invest in Grimoire.

Charles-cgr September 6th, 2012 03:26

If it is about accountability then a modest goal should do it. Surely you can rack up $10,000 judging the notoriety it has gathered over the years. Although I'd be a donator, the skepticism that built up over the years alongside the notoriety might make an ambitious goal very difficult to achieve. And 10K makes you just as accountable as a million.

Just my two pennies.

darkling September 6th, 2012 05:34

I'll pledge something if you get rid of the nightmare baby logo. ;)

Cleveland Mark Blakemore September 6th, 2012 14:33


gozioso September 6th, 2012 19:09

terrible attitude
I have to admit that the game looks like it might have promise (based on the videos), but your attitude about the whole thing is terrible. You have been stringing people along about this game for years. It should be quite evident why no one trusts you.

I compare you to other commercial indie developers such as the guys who did Knights of the Chalice, Underworld, and Frayed Knights. They are quite polite and committed to producing a quality product. Those are the types of people I want to succeed.

Furthermore, what about Thief 2X, the Nameless Mod, Lazaras, and the Ultima 6 project? Those were all very well received. Those teams poured their hearts into the projects for no financial gain.

You expect us to pay for your product, yet you really don't seem that interested in actually finishing up this beast. How much money do you intend to charge for a digital copy of the game? $15? More? There is no way in hell that I am paying the same price for Grimoire as Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, or some of the other top Kickstarter projects.

Quite frankly, you're a bit of a nut, so don't be surprised by the negativity and wariness about this whole thing.

Cleveland Mark Blakemore September 6th, 2012 20:49


crpgnut September 7th, 2012 00:26

No, Cleve can never release Grimoire! It would end the best IT joke of the century. Cleve is like the Chicago Cubs of gaming; never quite good enough for prime time. A release of Grimoire would be almost sacreligious. Please don't support him, I don't want the game released at this point. To work on something for 18 years and never release is the ultimate definition of loser and it just needs to stay his title for all eternity :D

Cleveland Mark Blakemore September 7th, 2012 05:57


gozioso September 7th, 2012 07:09

This is exactly what I'm talking about, chief. You are delusional enough to compare your unfinished, circa-1992 video game with the Sistine Chapel. You have a real penchant for self-aggrandizing. Do you honestly believe half of the egotistical bullshit you spew out? Dirty Harry said it best in Sudden Impact:

"Yeah… you're a legend in your own mind."

I just don't understand people like you. You make no effort to be even remotely likable. Do you really think that any rational person would want to back your project? Learn some fucking humility for Christ's sake.

Gorath September 7th, 2012 08:26

Guys, can we make this less personal?

Cleveland Mark Blakemore September 7th, 2012 09:42


Pladio September 7th, 2012 10:04

@ Gorath:

The problem is that many people on this website used to actually look forward to this game and have lost complete trust in the developer. This is completely a personal issue.

I think few people doubt Mr Blakemore's programming capabilities, but they do not trust him.

This is the case for many reasons. Briefly :
- He has promised a game would be delivered at least 4 times before and hasn't delivered on those promises. So why should people believe him now ?
- He has taken a very arrogant tone to people explaining themselves on why they would not want to help fund his 18-year old game.
- He himself has said he has no motivation to finish this game.
- He has no other gaming credentials (AFAIK) that could relief him of the previous points.
- He disses someone who is explaining to him he is doing something wrong :

What all those other Kickstarter projects have in common is that they are talking about hypotheticals. My game is almost completed, which I am documenting with those videos on YouTube. It sounds like you would not be interested in Grimoire.
The fact remains that his game has been almost completed for the past 10 years.
- He talks about himself, implying that he is doing an amazing feat:

You probably don't quite understand what sort of accomplishment it is for a single person to write such a polished game by themselves. Look in the back of any manual for a similar game and you'll see the credits pages have about 20 or so names on them, most of those paid staff.

Again, just me. So a pretty amazing feat for one lone "nut" and the videos prove it.
There are many examples of games made my one people or very small teams that are/were very polished. Less nowadays, but pretending he is the only one doesn't help.
- He is asking for money from strangers and whenever he receives criticism, he self-aggrandizes himself to the point of comparison to Leonardo Da Vinci (who had proven himself with his previous work, unlike Mr Blakemore, just to note something quite important).

Basically, he needs to learn a lot of humility. He has taken the RPG-community on a 10-year run to chase him about the game and is now surprised people do not trust him ? The first thing he should have done was apologize to people who he's been stringing along.

As an aside: I used to follow this game too for a while. Why ? Because Corwin said Mr Blakemore was to be trusted. That the demo seemed really good and that the game was close to completion. Since then however I have seen probably 3 new release dates in the span of 4 years or so. It's very simple and I will reiterate the point I spelt out at first.

It's all about trust and Mr Blakemore has not cultivated any with most people.
So, no reason to give him ANY money.

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