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-   -   Knights of the Chalice (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18923)

Pessimeister December 16th, 2012 18:09

Knights of the Chalice
Greetings Watchers

I thought I'd write a little footnote to completing Knights of the Chalice this evening. The game took just under 40 hours and provided a wonderful feast of tactical turn based combat which I really enjoyed.
I went with a slightly conservative party of A knight, two clerics and a mage.
I found that once I got level 9 clerical spells (which include true resurrection) death of individual characters wasn't so much of a worry.

Has anyone finished it more than once with multiple party types?
If I played again, I'd probably go for two mages, a cleric and a knight to double the firepower and quicken fights.

I probably had the most difficulty with the King Sulphur fight at the end of the Fire Giant Pits. That was rather nasty to get a foothold in.

Some more specific feedback:

- Turn based combat with AD&D ruleset; some great complex and tactical fights throughout.
- Excellent encounter design.
- Great manual within the game itself; easy to check and verify rules and concepts.
- A presentation somewhat reminiscent of the Dark Sun games.
- Fun implementation of metamagic feats adds depth to magic system.
- Good amount of dungeons to explore with some solid patches of difficulty requiring careful resource management. (the Orc Stockade was a great dungeon for this)

- Slightly awkward looting system. (Although you get used to it…)
- Offensive firepower of the cleric class is a little limited; difficult to make distinctions between desired cleric types/builds.
- No thief class/limited classes overall.

I was glad to finally purchase and play this game, which I only really found out about due to the Watch/Codex covering it when it first came out. (Cheers!)
Hopefully the developer is still going strong and releases an even better sequel. :)

Lurking Grue December 23rd, 2012 10:19

Congrats Pessimeister on finishing KotC! It's a wonderful game, one of the best CRPGs of the last 10 years or so, IMHO, and I'm not counting just indie CRPGs here, but the big AAA ones too. In fact, KotC wipes the floor with most multimillion dollar AAA CRPGs of recent years.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister (Post 1061175776)

Yep, I agree with all of your pros (though I didn't use metamagic feats that much).


Originally Posted by Pessimeister (Post 1061175776)

I mostly agree with your assessment of the cons as well, although I didn't find the looting system to be awkward. I kind of liked the UI in KotC (sure, it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad by any means).


Originally Posted by Pessimeister (Post 1061175776)
Hopefully the developer is still going strong and releases an even better sequel.

I haven't been following the development of KotC 2 that much after Blue Salamander (the dev, can't remember his real name) announced he was making an RTS game first and KotC 2 was put on hold. Sad news that. Hopefully we'll get KotC 2 someday, but I fear it's going to be years - might even get to play Age of Decadence before KotC 2… ;).

Lost Sheep December 23rd, 2012 12:22

I suddenly fancy this! Please can anyone tell me where I can buy it in the UK?

Pessimeister December 23rd, 2012 13:18

Thanks for the comments, Lurking Grue. :)

You're right about the UI naturally. It's a minor quibble all things considered and is something I got used to. Another thing I didn't comment on was the music -
I actually really like the small selection of midi loops which play in the game, even after hearing them so many times. Strange eh? As a result, I certainly won't be able to forget the battle music theme.

Now that I have some holiday time, I may actually get to continue my old Champions of Krynn playthrough…we'll see though, as I still have a major backlog of stuff to play!
With Risen 2 also completed recently, methinks it's time to investigate and gather some personal feedback on the whole Dark Souls phenomenon.

@Lost Sheep (Go here, for it may lead you to Little Bo Peep!) ;)


The purchase and installation was a smooth, painless process.

Pongo December 23rd, 2012 13:58

This game has passed under my radar a bit, but from what you're saying it sounds brilliant…. Will have to check it out!

I'd love to play those dragonlance games again, but I'm a bit put off by the effort getting them to run. I managed to get pool of radiance running for a playthrough last year, but only after several evenings of eye watering frustration! :)

Carnifex December 23rd, 2012 17:41

Let me tell you now, if you like crpg's and haven't played KotC, you're missing out on an excellent game. I've played it through twice so far, and when I catch up with my current backlog, I have a third trip in mind. If you liked the SSI gold box games, I don't know how you couldn't enjoy KotC, in this age where most crpg's are watered down, Chalice is just what you need to be reminded that there are still good games around.


Pessimeister December 23rd, 2012 18:05

Some more KotC fans (and potential ones too!) coming out of the proverbial woodwork I see. :) Excellent!

What party configurations did you go for, Carnifex? I'm really curious as to what the gameplay balance is like with different class/party makeups.

The crafting feats I found in particular (wand, wondrous item, forge item and armour) really made the difference in some of the key tough fights. I'm not sure what I would have done without a wand of fireball or ice storm at times!

Four clerics would possibly get a little tedious mind you with the lengthy fights, but maybe one knight and three mages is possible with lots of resting. :)

@Pongo. Check out the demo and see if you like it. I played it some 4-5 months before buying the full game. Judging by your avatar pic, you're also a C64 fan? ;) Paradroid is a fun little game.

Pongo December 23rd, 2012 18:33

@pessimeister yeah well recognised, paradroid was brilliant! Completely bonkers, but my favorite C64 game.

I've just jumped straight in and bought Knights of the Chalice. After checking out the website and seeing what you guys are saying, I kinda don't think there's any way I'm not going to have a good time with it! Only got to character creation so far, but its already got me smiling. Aaaahhhh, only one re-roll on a stat…. now that's what I like to see! Guess I know what I'm doing over the Christmas break now.

Shame there's no thief class though.

Pongo December 23rd, 2012 19:11

1st encounter, about 2 minutes into the game, had my entire party wiped out by some water elementals….. Didn't manage to hit them once. heh heh this is going to be hard! Brilliant.

Pongo December 30th, 2012 15:00

About ten hours in. Great game!

I've gone with a party of two knights, a mage, and a cleric. This is working well so far. The knights can do a load of damage charging in with cleave / whirlwind etc.

I agree with the cons and pros above - my thoughts:

- it would be useful to have an autosave on map transition - mainly because I keep forgetting to save and the game keeps killing me!
- Lack of thief class is a bit sad, there are lots of traps in the game where a thief would have been cool. Having said that, the game focus is mainly about combat and I've never really been a fan of the d&d backstabbing rules.
- the rest system is brilliant. It caught me completely by surprise in the orc stockade, where I spammed all my best spells in early fights without realising that I wouldn't be able to rest…. and then found myself having to find increasingly inventive ways of using my characters to win further fights. By the end of that section I'd used every wand and spell and tactic I could imagine, and was going around with two characters on 1HP and a fighter blinded by glitterdust. I was getting desperate to find a campsite!!! Great stuff though, cos it forced me to try different tactics rather than just spamming the usual spells etc.
- using wands outside of combat is a bit fiddly (as are spells for that matter).
- characters seem to level up a bit too quickly early on - would prefer a slower progression.

Might add some more thoughts when I've beaten it….

fadedc December 30th, 2012 19:02

I went with 2 knights, a wizard, and a cleric. The game uses 3e D&D rules where fighters were always a bit overpowered in terms of damage output. Throw up a haste spell and they far outdamage mages and end fights quickly without expending many resources.

ToddMcF2002 January 1st, 2013 16:08

Wow I dismissed this in the past because of the graphics, but after watching the Youtube video and seeing the 3e rules I'm in. Also it appears they have a "hi res" option of sorts via a patch (RPGwatch reported on this a while back 960x720).

Cool video.

Pessimeister January 1st, 2013 20:35

Yeah, it never pays to be a graphics whore. :) Gameplay is king. And Knights of the Chalice brings that with rings of protection+5 on it. ;) All fans of good, tactical party based combat should at least give this game a play. (rather than just a look!)

Not sure I agree with the idea of mages always being outdamaged by fighters, fadedc. Maximised Cone of Cold, or an empowered fireball is some nasty damage output when used correctly.
Having said that, it'd be interesting to try a more melee intensive party at some point as well.

Lost Sheep January 2nd, 2013 18:06

Can wizards use masterwork shortbows? I've been on the official forum and can't find an answer.

PS,thanks to Pessimeister for the headsup on this one.

Pessimeister January 2nd, 2013 19:17

You're welcome, Lost Sheep. Hope you're enjoying the game.

On your question:
Yes, Wizards can use masterwork shortbows. Just be mindful of the -4 penalty to hit whenever characters don't have the necessary combat proficiencies. The martial weapon proficiency for shortbow would be the feat you'd need to negate this.
Possibly once you start crafting wands though, I think you'll probably not rely on the bow so much.

Also, be sure to check the "Rules" menu option from within the game. Most answers to questions of this kind can be found there. :)

Lost Sheep January 3rd, 2013 19:18

Thanks again,bud. I looked in the rules but they only show changes and I wasn't clear which version they were using.

As I remember couldn't use bows at all in AD+D.

mprod January 4th, 2013 16:06

I recently finished the game for the fourth time but this was only the second time that I managed to win the final bonus battle and only because of a lot of luck


Was wondering about how others fared in this fight

Pessimeister January 5th, 2013 16:15

Interesting. How do you trigger this fight?

If I recall, the only extra fight I had when returning to the knights tower was a harder elemental summoning battle courtesy of the mage and his assistant.
It'd be nice to have a "Dave's Challenge" type of fight though! :)

As an aside, I didn't actually complete Norglade until after I finished the game, which probably made it alot easier. Maybe this is why the fight never triggered. I'll have to check at some point.

mprod January 5th, 2013 21:31

Too get to the final bonus battle you:


By the way I donīt know what "Dave's Challenge" is please enlighten me

Lost Sheep January 11th, 2013 18:13

I'm really enjoying this now and I've reached Level 7 with only one total wipeout!

Got a quick question though. I want to make a Wand of Fireballs but my wizard with the Craft Wand Feat,despite being Level 7,seems only to be able to enchant level 1 spells.

I expect I'm being dumb somehow or other,but I'd be glad if someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.


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