I'm saying the style is the same across all games, because they're based on the same lore and share a clear foundation.

As for "deep" lore, I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about the amount of books to be found, I'm pretty sure Skyrim has more than both Morrowind and Oblivion. At worst, the amount is very similar.

Look for yourself:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Books_(Skyrim)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Books_(Morrowind)

Found it:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/C…:Books_by_Game

432 books in Morrowind and 660 books in Skyrim. Both for base games without expansions.

It's cool that you like Morrowind more, but claiming I'm ignorant because of that is not what I'd call a convincing statement.

Just because you happened to hunt them all down in Morrowind, means absolutely nothing in terms of how much lore is there.

So, exactly what do you mean by "deeper" and why is your opinion of it relevant? I'm not talking about one game being necessarily deeper than the other. I'm saying the STYLE is very similar, regardless of nostalgic delusion.

Go look up Vivec, the Ministry of Truth, Red Mountain, gods and battles etc. it's all immediately relevant to the main plot. The whole thing reeks of lore.

You're not answering the question.

I'm not asking why you like the lore, I'm asking exactly why it's deeper than Skyrim - and why it means I'm ignorant.

Why would Dunmer's cultures reeks more of lore than the Nord's cultures (which is the Altmoran's culture as explained by Skyrim…if you bother paying attention)?

Because that's the only difference between Morrowind and Skyrim. The first one focus on the Dunmers and the second one on the Nords.

Its way beyond that. Guys Red Mountain, the whole volcanic zone, Vivec the living God is all core to the roots of Tamriel and integrated into the main plot. Dagoth Ur and ending the Blight? Did you guys even play the game? Dart at least I suspect did not.

Core to the roots of Tamriel?

The events of Red Mountain are self-contained to Morrowind, it was pure local squabbles between people who lived for way too long out of someone else essence. The plot was basically explaining where the Numidium in Daggerfall come from.

Oblivion moved the story to explain about the Amulet of Kings, the blood of Alessia and the pact with Akatosh (some of this stuff date back to Daggerfall). TESO is about what happen want there is no wearer for the Amulet for too long…

Skyrim is all about Akatosh and his angels (dragons) and how one of them decided to conquer Tamriel for himself in the far away past but was "defeated" by a Nord which spawned a myth about the World-Eater after centuries.

Each games also focus on the local cultures which varies a lot between the different provinces.

I guess your refusal to reply to my question and this utterly useless explanation of how it's "way" beyond Skyrim - tells us all we need to know about your level of insight into the topic at hand. I might not have loved Morrowind like you do - which I know is very hard for you to deal with and obviously some kind of sin, but I played it for weeks before I decided it wasn't for me.

For how long did you play Skyrim? Sounds like you know next to nothing about it, really.

I hope you enjoyed your session.

I think Elder Scrolls in general has great lore. The Daedra, Nine Divines, Tamriel itself, etc. All great stuff.

I think I was most connected to Tamriel by playing Morrowind. The lore in that game does go very deep. It feels as though you are really there exploring this alien world. It was the first Elder Scrolls game where I spent hours upon hours collecting every book I could find and reading them all. It was amazing.

I think ES games in general do a phenomenal job of creating plausible worlds that make sense. I really don't think that is diminished much in Oblivion and Skyrim. In fact, I'm playing Oblivion right now and absolutely loving my time spent in Cyrodiil. It's just as magical as Morrowind except a bit less alien and more "Imperial-ized".

Of course, if Bethesda decides to go to the Black Marsh or Elsweyr for the next game, it will be an alien world again like Morrowind to explore. I look forward to that as a bit of change of pace in the series.

I definitely don't agree with diminishing later Elder Scrolls games in favor of Morrowind. Morrowind is amazing, but so are both Oblivion AND Skyrim. They are great games and I'm very happy we can play them. =)

I'm actually trying to read more about the Elder Scrolls' lore so that I can join the discussion and tell you all that you are wrong.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/teso/eld…ls-lore-primer

Ha! Today I learned that The Elder Scrolls Online's lore should logically be better than Morrowind's, since it has been said that the quality of the lore has been gradually going down and TESO takes place in the Second Era, 714 years before.

I completed Oblivion and spent a few hundred hours in Skyrim. I don't recall the lore being as rich and integrated into the main plot. Maybe I'll revisit if I'm selling it shot. I haven't wavered in my conviction that Dart is a pompous tool however.

No, you're right. The lore is not as entwined in the main story as it is in Morrowind. That's one of the great aspects of Morrowind.

Oblivion and Skyrim still have fine lore, it's just a bit more streamlined than Morrowind.

Yeah, Morrowind was kinda hard to get into, past the getting dumped into a big, strange, new world part.

Back to TESO, though, I continue to be entertained just wandering around the game world and running into new story quests and other things. I've never played an MMO quite like this. I think I'll be entertained just by the exploration for quite some time!

Fluent hit the nail on the head. But then again, if one did not bother to really read all the lore books in Morrowind nor complete the game, one wouldn't know that. People who are ignorant about this subject shouldn't be spouting advice about whether the lore of ESO is as deep and connected to both the plot and setting and environment of Morrowind.

I think you missed the part where it was a bit hard to get into. The lore and plot could be better than awesome, but if it's presented in an uninteresting manner, then most people will never get to the point of reading all the lore and finishing the game.

The lore remains very similar in all games.

There's nothing more "mainstream" about text on pages in Skyrim than text on pages in Morrowind. You don't have to read a lot of them to see it's exactly the same style of writing - most likely by the same people in many cases.

Still, I know the disappointment of Oblivion made a lot of people think everything about Bethesda was somehow shallow and mainstream after that point.

In the real world, however, their games are still trying to give players the same experience - only technology has evolved a lot since Morrowind.

Oblivion was something of a misstep in several ways, I'll grant that - but it was also quite bold in other ways.

Skyrim, however, is the first and only TES game that truly works on almost all levels.

Still, to each his own. This obsession with Morrowind, I'll have to write down to youthful excitement ;)

It's not the superficial presentation or style of the lore that we care about, it's the depth and connectedness of the content to the setting/environment/story/NPCs. Oblivion and Skyrim were very lacking in that regard wrt to Morrowind.

How is the lore in Skyrim not connected to the plot and setting of Skyrim? It's all about an ancient Nord's myth that requires the player to dig in ancient Nord history to understand and the Thu'um, a Nord magic, to defeat.

As for ESO, it covers all of Tamriel in the 2nd Era and it has a main story, three alliance main stories and zone main stories for each zones. There is at least one zone per province, although Eslweyr gets the smallest one. The lore in the game goes all over the place. From expanding almost unknown stuff like the Maormers to showing how barmy Shegorath can be.

Depth and breadth of connectedness to NPCs and locations you can visit in the world is not nearly as much as Morrowind. It's a matter of degree. At some point a threshold is met that makes the whole experience more engaging. Skyrim was close, but not quite as good as Morrowind, IMHO.

I don't think we agree so it was not factored in. The game is OLD, and back then, like Gothic 1, there was little hand holding.

But I had no trouble with Gothic, but Morrowind was amazing, but overwhelming and hard to stick with. I guess it comes down to how much you want to invest in the game and that depends on how much it connects with you.

It's not as interactive an interface as the newer ones and I had a few false starts over the years. If you have patience to invest in it it certainly pays off. The graphics mods for it make a massive difference.

Ok, so Morrowind is deeper because it has two instead of one super old entity with a remote connection to what is currently happening in the plot. Gotcha.

edit: I'm actually wrong, Alduin count as much as Dagoth Ur, so twos for twos.

Also the conversation system in Morrownid has at least an order of magnitude more lore information presented to the player, than Skyrim or Oblivion. There's simply no comparison on the aspect of "NPC to PC communication of lore."

On that point you are wrong, and oversimplifying, as well as straw manning. In essence, you seem to be trolling me, or just ignoring what's been said.

Morrowind requires a deeper investment, but it rewards you so much more because of that investment.

Once you slip into Morrowind lore, you will be literally whisked away downstream into a completely new, unique, plausible world.

It's not just solely about the lore, it's about the entire presentation and pace of the world. Because the game is methodical and slower-paced, you are able to slowly ease into the lore more. You're also able to discover things on your own and dig as deeply as you would like to into the lore to get the most reward out of it.

I can see why others think Morrowind has the best lore. It's the deepest I feel, although I'm not saying the later games "suck" or are "too mainstream" or anything. They just aren't quite as methodical as Morrowind, although Skyrim does a decent job in that regard.

I also love Oblivion and I'm playing it right now. Heavily modded, of course. I love these Elder Scrolls games. =)

You mean the hyperlinked chat windows in which most NPCs said most of the exact same things as the last NPC you encountered?

So just spouting internet memes, now? If you bothered to read them all which I doubt you did, you would know the following.

Given that SOME of the information is repeated, it's still 100x or more information total in Morrowind than you get out of all the Oblivion and Skyrim NPC conversations combined.

I'm not oversimplified anything more than you are. You mentioned connectness of NPCs, I just pointed out there was as many in Skyrim linked to both the past and current events.

Having less text to read doesn't make a game lore less deep. You clearly prefer Morrowind, that's fine, but the other games has just as many lore elements. It's just not the type you want to see (aka weird alien stuff).

Can we get back to The Elder Scroll Online now please. There are a TES sub-forum for everyone who want to continue the discussion about the lore.

You are looking for ways to dismiss a very important distinction between the shallowness of the later TES games and Morrowind. Or you don't understand the nature of connectedness and deepness. It's not a trivial count of how many NPCs or entities participate in past documented and current events.

This thread got derailed because Dart was taking misinformed swipes at Morrowind (as usual) knowing full well he'd get a reaction. You'll notice it's very difficult to have a targeted discussion about the Elder Scrolls without it going all to hell.

Alright, I asked the question how the lore compares to Morrowind, I think we've beat it to death. And as usual I was right. ;)

j/k I am still intrigued about ESO, but after watching some gameplay, all I could think is, "this again?"

You are starting to sound like DArt you know.

And I really get the feeling you need to do some self-analyse. I don't sound at all like a guy interested in any more TES stuff… You just want more Morrowind, TESO is not just more Morrowind (there is some of that if you play Ebonheart Pack, but later that Alliance move into Skyrim…).

As for the combat, it works better than in Skyrim despite being quite similar.

I guess I'm ready for an emergency exorcism. Know any available priests? ;)

I truly love TES, only recently eclipsed by Witcher 3.

However, MMOs? Haven't played a single one. For a reason. Actually a few. Good ones, even.

However, I have liked multiplayer. Was really hot on ME3 multiplayer for a few months. Sort of MMOish/skirmishish?

TESO fall into the Solo-MMO category unless you do PvP in Cyrodiil (you can go there solo, but more chance to stay alive if you hang around more players) and some dungeons requires a group but it is optional content. There is also an adventure zone that is more group-centric but that's late end game stuff.

A solo-mmo means that you see other players, but you can basically ignore them, they don't impact your gameplay (that much).

The group dungeons might feels somewhat similar to ME3 multiplayer.

OK, thanks. I should try it. One of the few genres I haven't tried, really.

You mean it got derailed because some people (you) can't handle differing opinions and have to create fantasies of ultra deep lore in an effort to prove how it's wrong not to love what you love.

You love Morrowind and that's cool. I can easily handle that. You can't handle that I don't and that I have genuine reasons for it. Reasons that have nothing to do with lore, but with gameplay which I know everything about when it comes to the game.

I never said anything about Skyrim having the same depth of lore. I said the style is very similar, and that's completely beyond your capacity to dispute. You can't make reality go away, sorry.

That said, azarhal who is clearly the person in the know when it comes to lore in all these games, has demonstrated that depth seems to be very similar as well.

Once again, never argue against an opposing opinion from a position of emotional investment. It will make you twist facts until you're stuck looking like a fool. The sooner you accept that, the sooner we can end these sessions.

Not rocket science, really.

Honestly, my gameplay for the last 12 hours looked nothing like that video. It was pure solo, except that there were other people running around--that is really something you will have to be able to put up with. The video you posted looks like your standard MMO flashy combat.

For combat, I think ESO is superior when it comes to melee - but inferior when it comes to stealth/archery.

For magic, I really couldn't say - as I never play mages.

That said, ESO has a larger "active" arsenal than Skyrim or any other TES game. You have potentially 12 active abilities to use during combat - and a ton of passives on top.

Personally, I think lore discussion is interesting and relevant to the topic, and I was wondering is the lore is canon or not. I remember people being upset that it pisses all over lore from other games. This guy seems to think so:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com…aking-the-lore