Torment: Tides of Numenera - Beta Part 2
 

A new Torment kickstarter update today subtitled 'Road to Beta Part 2'. It includes a music update from Mark Morgan, some lore about Circus Minor and more information about the beta.

Circus Minor

[…]

On the Beta:

More information.

This game generates so little love… I was hoping to read some comments here and people are just ignoring the news post.

I guess I too feel a bit meh about it somewhat, I really want to believe that Torment will be incredible, but for some reason I keep thinking it won't be more than a temporary pass-time at best. I guess it's PoE's fault for hoarding all the oldschool IE crew hype and not living up to it.

I think people are plenty hyped about it, it's just this update is not particularly interesting and it is still quite far away from release. It passed the 5 million funding mark just recently so it isn't doing too bad in my opinion.

Looks yummy!

you must understand this is not a big or terribly active forum … some people visit only once or twice a week

PoE was Obsidians B team's project from the start. It capitalized off nostalgia without really bringing anything fresh to the table. This is a different company that did Wasteland 2, which is a better RPG than PoE anyway, so we'll see

and so far there is nothing that implies Torment is being done by a younger , more inexperienced "secondary" crew inside inXile , like PoE has been

I think a lot of people lost interest, each update is looking more boring than the next one. I haven't found any of the original charms in any of the screens, and neither that music.

I'll be playing it, but my interest went down when they announced it would be TB instead of RTwP. I always played PS: T for the story, characters and setting, which means I am likely to just burn through the combat, so I really prefer being able to do that quickly.

When you get a news post every week about a game, every day closer to release, you soon run out of things to say. Don't you worry, there'll be plenty to read closer to the time.

Same here.
I already backed this game so I don't need to gather information. In fact I even don't want to know more about games I already backed or pre-ordered as I don't want to get spoiled.

Only thing I'm really intersted in is the release date. :)

I have a completely opposite impression…

The screens definitely have an otherworldly, tormenty, vibe to them, and I love the music

Numenera fits Torment perfectly as a setting

Keep in mind that RTwP is turn-based in itself

I like the eccentric nature of the setting and much of the art they've presented. It remains to be seen if the game will be enjoyable.

Numenera looks like a cool , original setting alright. I'd try the PnP even regardless of Torment

Wouldn't you prefer combat that's interesting and different and worth playing, instead of something you just want to skip past? ;)

Honestly, I would rather prefer different ways to circumvent combat without going to turn-based mode. Personally, I think that's more interesting than combat at all. And if stealth/persuade/… doesn't work off, finish it quickly.

Not necessarily. Jagged Alliance: Back in Action wasn't, IIRC the same is true for Pillars of Eternity.

In turn based mode there are multiple ways to resolve some encounters i.e. conversation during combat, interaction with the environment etc. The combat looks very interesting with all these dynamics if you ask me.

I'm aware of the Crisis concept. Unfortunately the thing I like even less than turn-based combat is completely turn-based action, unless I'm in good company.

Crisis isn't rocket science. It's an attempt to make combat meaningful by mixing it up with actions that would normally be played out in real-time, before it comes combat. You're simply relocating the trigger for turn-based mode to the beginning of a stage instead of linking it to one or several incidents. So in the end, I guess, the game is not just interrupting for combat, but there are whole passages or even areas that can only be solved in turn-based mode. Presumably most narrative main quest encounters. That would not only make combat turn-based, but also portions of the story line.

Next week, we will see.

I think crisis that have a time impact would be better played turn-based so the twitch element doesn't come into it i.e. diffusing a bomb where you have to find the appropriate tools.

Are you concerned that the concept could be overused? I probably agree with you in that it could become a little tedious if it jumps into turn based every time you trying to resolve an encounter/puzzle. I'm hoping it is just for combat or time sensitive crisis?

Correct. A Crisis will typically have a time-sensitive element to it, whether that is a looming threat, enemies on patrol, or a monster rushing your way to bite your head off. You won't be exploring the city of Sagus Cliffs in entirely turn-based gameplay, for instance.

Conversely, not every combat encounter will be a full Crisis. We will have smaller turn-based fights where you might just battle a few people, though these may still feature enemies with unique AI or behaviors, and they will still have some story context. But don't expect any "dungeons" with rats to kill or anything like that.

personally, unless all dialogue choices are "stat based" or "biography based" if you prefer, giving you personalized dialogue options based on your character, then the dialogue options are less "role-play" than the combat. most people chose the dialogue choice that they personally like the best, or what they think will give them their desired outcome. very few people, i feel, actually role play the dialogue based off their character's biographical data. for that reason, i enjoy the combat, because you can't overcome any shortcomings of your character on the battlefield. you just deal with it. it adds an element of "fate" or "destiny" to the outcome, which keeps the focus on the character as an individual, not just your vicarious enjoyment of the setting.

Not exactly. I was socialized to games with Dune 2, Command & Conquer and Wing Commander, not Battle Isle or Panzer General. It wasn't exactly Realms of Arkania that turned me to CRPGs, it actually was Baldur's Gate, and I prefer Lands of Lore over any Gold Box Game. So there is no way you could tempt me with more turn-based options (although I play some games from time to time). The misfortune in this special case is, that wasn't part of the Kickstarter description, but a sprititual successor to PsT, that was RTwP.

I'm definitely torn there. In a game where combat isn't the focus, time spent on developing combat is mostly time wasted. If the combat is good, and if there are incentives to do combat, then players will want to do it, and they will complain if there's not enough combat. If there are no incentives and the combat system is good, then people will complain about combat not being worthwhile. Either way, it seems to me that InXile will lose if they spend too much time and energy on the combat system.

Nope.

strong post

What else do you expect… did you even read what you said?

lets take an example here…. AoD is a game where combat isn't the focus, right… But it still has combat, for those who choose it. So explain to me how they wasted time on combat? Many people enjoy the unforgiving combat in AoD, despite the game being focused on non-violence

what else is the focus of AoD? Scripted stat checks?

Torment is a game that focuses on writing, storytelling, dialogue. I've never yet read any posts about how people play AoD non-violently, because frankly I don't think there's enough meat to that game to make that interesting.

Yeah there is …. you can beat the game with social skills alone… combat is fully optional, but that doesn't mean they wasted time developing it…. And yes, torment was primarily about narrative… but it had combat and that's completely fine… Its not a waste

For PS:T, the story/writing etc were the driver of the game and since T:ToN is meant to be spiritual successor of PS:T, I would like to experience engrossing and meaningful plot - I'm afraid TB combat will break the immersion, especially if they follow the D:OS' example. Last thing I want is going through a loooooooooooong (even if it's fun and engaging combat) battle and have to reload or completely forgotten the story/dialogue whatever.

I just don't think youre being realistic here. Long battles are going to happen one way or another. Do you remember the Carceri/Baator arc? You needed to battle through several overrun areas , with almost no dialogue, to reach the Pillar of Skulls. Did that cause you to forget Planescape's story? I don't think so, youre not a goldfish hun :) (30s attention span)

It's just I have much less time now days and don't get to play game as often as 10-15years back. I do actually forget what I was doing or the part of the story after a long-ish break in between especially if I left the game after a long combat :/

Either way, they've already decided on TB combat and that's not going to change. I just hope it will be implemented well.

It will , don't worry…. Im sure the narrative will be captivating enough not to forget during long battles (lol)

Torment shouldnt have many generic encounters. Less combat, but meaningfull. If the game is slowly building towards some important battle then long and probably hard battle perfectly complements the narrative. So its more likely vice versa and not the way you describe it.
I also dont think that players engaged by the plot would "completely forgot story/dialogue" after some battle. Maybe there is some person like that but it sounds very unlikely.

Not necessarily. You just had to reach the portal, so the easiest way was simply to rush through the area and not to pick up any gauntlet. Combat avoided, takes half a minute or less. Try that in turn-based mode.

yeah… Maybe something is wrong with my memory I dunnp, but between the start of Carceri area and Pillar of Skulls there is 80-90% fighting

This is true, but only if you choose to fight it all. I did the same thing when I first played it, as I didn't realize it was optional, but the reality is that the vast majority of it can be skipped.

And that is a good example of why my interest dropped when they announced it would be TB instead of RTwP. Like Sacred_Path, purplebob and Avantenor, I played PS: T for the story, setting and characters, and as such I'm simply not interested in long combat sequences, even if the combat is good.

Divinity: Original Sin is an excellent example, as the combat is fantastic and I love it, but I still wouldn't want a spiritual successor of PS: T to play anything like it. It's too disruptive.

So, to answer this question:
No, I would not. :)

Interesting thread. I'm not sure where I stand on this. I prefere TB as a rule these days, I loved PoE but I thought the combat was sometimes a bit weak, eg when it wasn't clear to me what was actually going on the muddle of fighting folk and therefore how I could influence it. TB is clearly better for this. But yeah for a heavily story based rpg, maybe RTwP would help things along more quickly to the next bit of the story.

Eh, actually, I'm still coming down on the TB side. I guess a thoughtful and slow approach to combat could well fit the atmosphere they're trying to create.

Well, if you only play the game for the story, setting etc.. does it need to have combat at all in it ?

Torment was a huge disappointment for me. I bought it sight unseen because it was an IE game and I had loved all the games before it. So while I was expecting more baldurs gate or icewind dale I got a long winding boring dialogue fest with poor combat, limited classes, a wise cracking skull that wasn't funny at all and a wierd death mechanic.

It was definitely original and different but it just wasn't for me.

I question whether people are open minded enough to accept a different take on this Torment title compared to what Planescape Torment did. Will people be criticising it for not doing things like Planescape did them or will they embrace and accept this games themes and ideas?

It all comes down to execution and nailing that first impression. I believe this game will nail it but I know what to expect criticism wise also.

Good question. I'm not sure to be honest. PS: T probably could have been a really good adventure game.

Overall, I'd probably prefer it with combat though, as it's a way to illustrate character progress. Playing a high INT/WIS mage is vastly different from a very strong fighter, and the combat can make TNO feel very powerful near the end, even if the combat itself isn't all that great.

An rpg without combat? But… But that's crazy talk! :)
Although yeah you're right of course, if it could be done well it would be interesting.