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-   -   Torment: Tides of Numenera - Delayed Until 2017 (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33776)

Silver June 10th, 2016 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian (Post 1061405031)
Yeah, he looks ugly which is fine but also asthetically mundane.

I think thats kind of the point. Your supposed to shape your character to become something quite different according to your vision/how you play. The player character is the equivalent of a new born.

joxer June 10th, 2016 12:41

While some people aren't happy with news, I am.

Not everyone has 48 hours free per day to play games. I certainly don't and although I've been avoiding buying titles then not touching them for ages caused by lack of time, the thing is so many games got already released I can't possibly play them all. Some are stinking on my HDD untouched for two years already (Grimrock2 looking at you, sorry).

Any delay, especially delay of a game I want to be great, in my case is good news.
Because by the time it gets out, perhaps I clear some entries from my overgrown backlog.

mbpopolano24 June 10th, 2016 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maylander (Post 1061405019)
Haha, I knew this would happen. Everything gets postponed to 2017. Now all we need is for Div 2 and Tyrant to get postponed, and it's a wrap!

I don't know anything about Tyranny (because I don't give a rat's arse about it), but DOS 2 is a given that will be released in 2016. We are in June and there is no words of anything even nearly completion. If we are lucky it will be June 2017, but could be later if they encounter some obstacles.

I am not happy about delays, never in any circumstances, but what can you do? It appears the as an industry people who develop games have no idea of how long it takes to do anything. Of course they come up with a bunch of crap about why, but it is amazing how they don't even have a reliable estimate. Let's see this in perspective: in most other industries a margin or error of 20-30% would be ludicrous, for game 200-300% estimation error appears to be the norm. Go figure…

Xian June 10th, 2016 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061404968)
Seems weird that it takes their publisher more then six months just to translate all the text, but then I remember developers taking a year to translate Japanese in JRPGs.

I always thought the same. For instance, I got married when I was working in Thailand years ago and needed the wedding license translated for the visa application. Something that they had done hundreds of times, basically just changing the names and dates, still took a week or more.
I had a friend that spoke both English and Spanish perfectly, and she could translate real time in a conversation between two people that only spoke one language. I knew enough of both to tell she was pretty accurate.

SpoonFULL June 10th, 2016 15:35

Techland (dead island .. etc.) will be the publisher for Torment:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20…ts-a-publisher

mercy June 10th, 2016 16:28

I want to play Torment after 10 patches then numerous Fan Patches then several major MODs. :D Us such game out there? Yes, its called MM6!

arthureloi June 10th, 2016 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061404968)
Seems weird that it takes their publisher more then six months just to translate all the text, but then I remember developers taking a year to translate Japanese in JRPGs.

To much red tape and procedures slows the translating process down.

That's the only good news from the update but the game still needs more polishing. So it will probably receive seven months of changes & fixes since its content complete.

Hey Couch!

I don't know where you got that from but, as a professional translator, I can assure you the translation process of a project like this is nothing short of gargantuan. There are a lot of localization issues that take forever to solve. Plus, there are so many passes that need to be made (proofreading). It's very complex really, even though it might not look like it is.

Even if dubbing is not to be included, just the text translations provide a really big challenge even to experienced teams, when a project of this size is to be considered.

I'm just trying to clarify some points here. This is not meant to be offensive.

rjshae June 10th, 2016 16:54

Screen shots: it's a billion years in the future and people are still waving around pointy pieces of metal.

arthureloi June 10th, 2016 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xian (Post 1061405050)
I always thought the same. For instance, I got married when I was working in Thailand years ago and needed the wedding license translated for the visa application. Something that they had done hundreds of times, basically just changing the names and dates, still took a week or more.
I had a friend that spoke both English and Spanish perfectly, and she could translate real time in a conversation between two people that only spoke one language. I knew enough of both to tell she was pretty accurate.

As I said above, professional translation is a pretty complex activity. It's not something the "fluent in two languages" average Joe is capable to do. There is a whole different set of skills the translator needs. Interpretation and translation os just the gist of it. Localization is really tough and requires deep understanding and knowledge of the culture one is translating into.

I will give you one example. I translate Netflix series from English into Portuguese. In English, people tend to use A LOT of curse words and F bombs. That can't be translated literally into Portuguese because it's culturally seen as offensive. Thus, the translator has to find mild words which will convey the meaning of the original curse, all the while trying not to lose too much substance.

This is just one example. When translating games, a whole different set of issues surface. If I'm translating to French, everything is different.

I really think people misunderstand how it really works, which, in turn, brings a lot of incompetent people to the translation market thinking they have what it takes. This is why some medias provide laughable subtitles and translations more often than not.

Archangel June 10th, 2016 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjshae (Post 1061405085)
Screen shots: it's a billion years in the future and people are still waving around pointy pieces of metal.

That is because known history of the current inhabitants is only around 800 years. That world is called 9th world because 8 great civilization have gone and passed and it is start of 9th now on Earth.

Sacred_Path June 10th, 2016 17:08

Quote:

This localization is no small feat (not to mention costly!), but we have a secret weapon… we're partnering with a certain publisher to help out on this front.
Ah, publisher money is a secret weapon now… since localization is such an important feature, lul

darklord June 10th, 2016 18:03

Hmm why don't they release the English version this year, and then localized versions next year?

Daniel.

Bedwyr June 10th, 2016 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthureloi (Post 1061405084)
Hey Couch!

I don't know where you got that from but, as a professional translator, I can assure you the translation process of a project like this is nothing short of gargantuan. There are a lot of localization issues that take forever to solve. Plus, there are so many passes that need to be made (proofreading). It's very complex really, even though it might not look like it is.

Even if dubbing is not to be included, just the text translations provide a really big challenge even to experienced teams, when a project of this size is to be considered.

I'm just trying to clarify some points here. This is not meant to be offensive.

Don't have to worry about offensiveness. I'm happy to have a professional offer a real-world perspective on the difficulty. I've seen linguists do lengthy translations before and given the contextual/linguistic/cultural issues at play, I can easily see that the relationship of translation complexity to size of the text (1mill+) is probably not totally linear.

Bedwyr June 10th, 2016 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by joxer (Post 1061405044)
While some people aren't happy with news, I am.

You, for one, get it. Thank you for a realistic understanding of artistic project management.

arthureloi June 10th, 2016 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedwyr (Post 1061405113)
Don't have to worry about offensiveness. I'm happy to have a professional offer a real-world perspective on the difficulty. I've seen linguists do lengthy translations before and given the contextual/linguistic/cultural issues at play, I can easily see that the relationship of translation complexity to size of the text (1mill+) is probably not totally linear.

Thanks for the understanding. To put things in perspective, I take, on average, 1 full hour to translate three minutes and a half of "Orange is the New Black". That is for the first pass. Then I have to proofread it and send it to the revision team. It's hard work.

Morrandir June 10th, 2016 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel (Post 1061405088)
That is because known history of the current inhabitants is only around 800 years. That world is called 9th world because 8 great civilization have gone and passed and it is start of 9th now on Earth.

Do the current inhabitants know that they're in the 9th world?

Morrandir June 10th, 2016 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by arthureloi (Post 1061405086)
As I said above, professional translation is a pretty complex activity. It's not something the "fluent in two languages" average Joe is capable to do. There is a whole different set of skills the translator needs. Interpretation and translation os just the gist of it. Localization is really tough and requires deep understanding and knowledge of the culture one is translating into.

I will give you one example. I translate Netflix series from English into Portuguese. In English, people tend to use A LOT of curse words and F bombs. That can't be translated literally into Portuguese because it's culturally seen as offensive. Thus, the translator has to find mild words which will convey the meaning of the original curse, all the while trying not to lose too much substance.

This is just one example. When translating games, a whole different set of issues surface. If I'm translating to French, everything is different.

I really think people misunderstand how it really works, which, in turn, brings a lot of incompetent people to the translation market thinking they have what it takes. This is why some medias provide laughable subtitles and translations more often than not.

Thanks for the insights.

As an outsider I imagine another huge challenge to be consistency. If an expression has been translated in a certain way it has to be translated the same way it next occurs in the same opus. So the work isn't trivial to parallelize. That means either one person alone needs to do the translation or you need to have some serious coordination.

rjshae June 10th, 2016 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel (Post 1061405088)
That is because known history of the current inhabitants is only around 800 years. That world is called 9th world because 8 great civilization have gone and passed and it is start of 9th now on Earth.

Heh. Okay, and so they are extracting ore from the shallow mines that somehow weren't exhausted by the previous 8 great civilizations. Or maybe they are hammering super-advanced nanotech composite materials from the previous civilization into simple bars of steel. :-P

arthureloi June 10th, 2016 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrandir (Post 1061405148)
Thanks for the insights.

As an outsider I imagine another huge challenge to be consistency. If an expression has been translated in a certain way it has to be translated the same way it next occurs in the same opus. So the work isn't trivial to parallelize. That means either one person alone needs to do the translation or you need to have some serious coordination.

This is another issue. You're right. Fortunately, modern translation applications (CAT - Computer Assisted Translator) allow us to keep glossaries of custom translated expressions, points of interest, mannerisms, idioms, characters etc. Without that, it would be almost impossible to keep track of it all and consistency would be negatively affected. Since translation and localization in modern movies, games, books etc is expected to be nothing short of top quality, these CAT tools are a must.

Archangel June 11th, 2016 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrandir (Post 1061405146)
Do the current inhabitants know that they're in the 9th world?

No.
But unlike our earth (or time) they have access to many leftovers from those previous ones. And all air and earth is full of nanomachines that allow "magic" to happen.


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