A probably simple question on character development
 

Do the different level of talents (e.g. Pain I and II, etc.) stack, or replace each other? I am at a point where I don't really know what to do with my bronze talents, but I still don't want to waste them - so if I already have Pain II, will getting Pain I do anything?

For every "level" of the weapon styles, the various bonuses to damage, knockdown, pain, etc only affect their level. So Pain I adds pain to the first part of the combo, Pain II adds pain to the second, etc.

At least that's the way it's been explained, and it's the only way I can see it making any sense.

In the manual, page 32, it just says: "Note! Style enhancements are not cumulative", so I'm not entirely certain. Still, it's not like bronze talents are in short supply.

I was confused by this as well in the beginning, and after reading the manual and thinking about it for a few mins…. I was still confused. Then all became clear when I fired up the game again, and watched ol Geralt do his thing with the new moves I had given him.

Basically, what youre dealing with is various runs of attacks that Geralt does, and adding a new point in one adds a new attack to that run. Think of it like switching up the gears of a vehicle youre driving. In first gear, Geralt will perform all the attacks and be provided all enhancements along the first tier. Then, if you successfully make the transition to second gear, he will perform all those attacks and be provided all enhancements in that tier.

So yes, you adding "bloody whirling vivisection" or whatever level II is beneficial, for it adds a new step to his second routine when you do

Yes, Sam, but I believe GBG was asking not about the "Group Silver (level 1,2,3,4,5)" but the effects of the corresponding "Knockdown I,II,III".

The way I believe it works is that the Knockdown I skill adds a 20% knockdown chance to the Group Silver level 1 attack, the Knockdown II skill adds a 30% knockdown chance to the Group Silver level 2 attack and Knockdown III skill adds a 40% knockdown chance to the Group Silver level 3 attack. Since the bonuses are definitely not cumulative, it would be quite stupid if they simply overwrote each other and added the highest bonus to all attacks of a specific style since then there would be no reason to pick the lowest level style enhancers as the second level bronze skills are readily available from the beginning.

Well Sam and Kazi said the same thing in different ways but they're both right. Anytime you pick a combat modifier under a sword skill, it only works for that particular step of the sequence. Nothing you pick in group silver 3 will affect anything in the other sets of the sequence. If you have 20% pain in group two silver, it has 0% of causing any pain in combat sequence 1,2, or 4.

P.S. I didn't check and see if pain is even a choice under group silver :D

B0ng? :biggrin:

Ah, thanks guys. It never occured to me that the bonus would just affect that particular step in the attack sequence, but that of course makes perfect sense.

Two more questions:

1)
Does this also apply to Signs? That is, the Igni powerup (ranged) attack. Right now I have Igni on 4 but the ranged version only on 2. Would that mean the enhancements from tier 3 and 4 do not apply when using it ranged?
Otherwise I don't see what any ranged Igni above lvl 1 is good for.

2)
Are damage boni added or multiplied?
Say I do 100 base damage, but have an oil for double damage and Wolverine's +50%. Would the damage be 250 or 300?

No, I'm quite sure those are cumulative and apply to all levels of the sign.

No clue. I suspect they are added though.

Vio, yes I think so Signs as well. Range gets you a larger radius and distance, each stage 1-5 effects

If you mean swords, you can only use oil or sharpen, if you put on oil then sharpen the oil disappears. I don't know about oil with Ingi, never tried it.

@Vio, good questions. As far as igni goes, if you don't have it ranged at level 3 and 4 then you're throwing a level 2 Igni fireball. The close range blast will be at level 4 though and do a lot more damage than the fireball. This is just my own personal experience. I noticed my fireball was a lot weaker than my close range stuff until I upped the range part of tiers three and four. This is from memory though.

On the swords, it seems like the order taken makes a difference. If you apply the oil/rune first and then take Wolverine, you seem to do more damage than if you take Wolverine and then add a damage multiplier item.

Are Signs Cumulative or Not?
 

Great discussion. I still am unclear about signs -- are they cumulative or not?

(… yes, sword styles are not, but the manual doesn't explicitly say whether signs are or aren't. Curiously, the manual *does* say that all attribute-related enhancements ARE cumulative …)

Looking at the Basic Levels for Signs, it would seem they are not cumulative, in the sense that Level II is an improved version of Level I for several signs.

HOWEVER

Looking at the enhancements, there are overlaps. For the Quen Sign, Barrier I and Barrier II seem cumulative.

But then for the Igni Sign, are Harm's Way I (10% additional damage) and Harm's Way II (20% additional damage) cumulative? Resulting in a total of 30% damage?

Or do you just get Harm's Way II (20% additional damage)?

Unclear in the manual. Any ideas or insights?

Many thanks! :D

This is just a theory as I haven't really given the leveling system that much thought - But it seems to me that IF:

Harm's Way II is available for selection at the same time that Harm's Way I is available (like, in the bronze section at the start of the game), then the additional damage is cumulative. Otherwise it would be a pointless design to allow you to pick HWI, only to have HWII cancel it out, thus spending two tokens to only get 20% additional damage.

However:

IF HWII is not available at the same time (meaning it's on another tier that requires more expensive tokens that you may not have) then I could possibly see it replacing the former.

That's just my take and without looking I do not remember which tiers those particular skills are on.

You could frequently take level 2 of a skill at the same time as level 1. I always took the second level and only came back for the 1st when I ran out of skills that needed a bronze.

I do not think they gave this development system much thought…. I do not think it is good, and it is certainly very confusing….. as this thread proves. Luckily it doesn't matter that much.