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-   -   Shadowrun HK - Impressions Thread (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37358)

Pladio August 24th, 2017 16:53

Shadowrun HK - Impressions Thread
 
i have started playing SHK and I'm about 8 hours in. I have finished a couple of missions and wanted to share my thoughts.

I am playing as a charismatic Shaman with some good ranged weapons skills. I am trying to play as a relatively good guy in this world (As I usually do).

It seems most missions allow you to do that as you are fighting the megacorps and the evil people who killed your father. So that's fine. In general the game seems more polished than the other two - but maybe that's because I am playing years after it came out.

In essence however, it is the exact same game and could easily have been a new campaign within the original game. The actual gameplay changes are minor other than the matrix now feeling like an arcade game.

Talking about the matrix, I think they should have taken a page from invisible inc and made the matrix into that game. That game is much more intense and it would have fitted much better into what they are trying to portray, especially for what is a tile-based and turnbased game.

My main peeve at the moment is that the game "forces" you to speak to everyone again and again after each mission and they often all have walls of text with no actual gameplay-relevant information. Once in a while a quest pops up, but even if they aren't quests it would have been nice to have some tips on fighting or anything really.

For example, I still remember the hunters in Gothic I telling me how to fight scavengers by trying to get them one at a time.

The walls of texts should be more limited to when it's relevant to the plot, or make them into books found I think.

The main issue I have with the game and the actual RP system is that you are forced to be a shaman or decked if you want to be smart/good at talking.

It forces you to be a certain "class" which is annoying. If I wanted to be a fighter, I cannot be a smart fighter really. And that wouldn't be a problem if the game had many outcomes, but it is a pretty linear game, meaning I am forced to be a shaman if I want many conversation options open to me…

One thing they did well in this iteration that I do not remember from the other ones as much is that your team's skills matter just as much. So by taking Wu with me, I gain a strong character able to open doors when it matters for example. Those options are often blanked out in conversation however, because you can't ask them to act intimidatingly whilst talking to others, which makes sense.

All in all, it looks like I will enjoy it, until I get bored - which is what happened with Dragonfall - unless the game is not too long.

From having had a quick look at a guide, I seem to be about a third or a quarter of the way in, so I might last to the end.

Any thoughts?

NewDArt August 24th, 2017 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pladio (Post 1061469114)
i have started playing SHK and I'm about 8 hours in. I have finished a couple of missions and wanted to share my thoughts.

I am playing as a charismatic Shaman with some good ranged weapons skills. I am trying to play as a relatively good guy in this world (As I usually do).

It seems most missions allow you to do that as you are fighting the megacorps and the evil people who killed your father. So that's fine. In general the game seems more polished than the other two - but maybe that's because I am playing years after it came out.

In essence however, it is the exact same game and could easily have been a new campaign within the original game. The actual gameplay changes are minor other than the matrix now feeling like an arcade game.

Talking about the matrix, I think they should have taken a page from invisible inc and made the matrix into that game. That game is much more intense and it would have fitted much better into what they are trying to portray, especially for what is a tile-based and turnbased game.

My main peeve at the moment is that the game "forces" you to speak to everyone again and again after each mission and they often all have walls of text with no actual gameplay-relevant information. Once in a while a quest pops up, but even if they aren't quests it would have been nice to have some tips on fighting or anything really.

For example, I still remember the hunters in Gothic I telling me how to fight scavengers by trying to get them one at a time.

The walls of texts should be more limited to when it's relevant to the plot, or make them into books found I think.

The main issue I have with the game and the actual RP system is that you are forced to be a shaman or decked if you want to be smart/good at talking.

It forces you to be a certain "class" which is annoying. If I wanted to be a fighter, I cannot be a smart fighter really. And that wouldn't be a problem if the game had many outcomes, but it is a pretty linear game, meaning I am forced to be a shaman if I want many conversation options open to me…

One thing they did well in this iteration that I do not remember from the other ones as much is that your team's skills matter just as much. So by taking Wu with me, I gain a strong character able to open doors when it matters for example. Those options are often blanked out in conversation however, because you can't ask them to act intimidatingly whilst talking to others, which makes sense.

All in all, it looks like I will enjoy it, until I get bored - which is what happened with Dragonfall - unless the game is not too long.

From having had a quick look at a guide, I seem to be about a third or a quarter of the way in, so I might last to the end.

Any thoughts?

Well, I've played and completed all the 3 Shadowrun games.

Overall, I found Dragonfall to be the best - mostly because of the story and the characters.

However, I did feel it dragged a little too much because of the amount of combat.

Hong Kong was almost as good, but I didn't care for the story as much. Also, I was pretty sick of the limited engine and formula at that point. But it seemed to me that there was less combat - and I appreciated that a lot.

I don't think really think these games are great or even particularly good. They're just decent little games with the writing being the stand-out feature.

All the gameplay is mediocre at best, if you ask me - and I particularly dislike the Matrix sequences - which are boring, ultra repetitive and drawn out.

The combat isn't much better - but it's not terrible.

Carnifex August 24th, 2017 19:11

Great games all three and worthy of replays simply to try out different builds and such. Ya, some of the story is linear and holds the hands a bit much, but still totally worth playing if the Shadowrun World intrigues you. My next play through I plan to do it as a computer buff rather than a melee build.

Kordanor August 24th, 2017 19:59

Yub, mentioned that before.
Shadowrun Hong Kong has far too much text which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the game and the story.
At some point in the game I actually just skimmed through the text and clicked forward. I have never done that before…

Also all Shadowrun Games have the problem that the game is too short to make use of their RPG System. What I mean is that a skill which is as specific as the ones in shadowrun partially are, can only rarely be used in games anyways. But if you make the game short, you might miss the one or two opportunities where you could have used it at all (maybe you even learnt it after you were already past the possibility).

Imho Shadowrun Dragonfall was the best game of the three, and Hong Kong was the worst.

In case anyone wants to check my (german) review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0QyytXe0VI

Google-Translated Transcript:
Spoiler

Zloth August 25th, 2017 03:38

I liked Dragonfall quite a bit. Hong Kong was worth it but somehow it just didn't seem as interesting as Dragonfall. And yeah, the text was… a lot. I was starting to dread speaking with characters because their stories just weren't that interesting to me. Ended up quitting after 34 hours - probably pretty near the end.

I continued playing my dwarven mage from Dragonfall.

BoboTheMighty August 25th, 2017 14:55

I'll be jumping into this some time soon, how much is it different, builds/gameplay wise from previous one?
Went with Decker/Rigger in Dragonfall: strong class, but takes a lot of time/$ to pay off, think mage was better for newcomers.
Combat was solid, best when number of turns play a part in scenarios( stop reinforcements, escape, etc)..still I'd take it over any real time with pause. Feels like it could use more dynamic play between classes though.

As for "forcing the player" into class…(unless they changed things drastically) could not disagree more with that.
Unlike, say Gothic ( where only decision for char building is made right at start of the game: strength, dexterity, mage…so you non stop pump points in main attribute) or Baldur's Gate( where stats have a clear use for only one type of character, while useless for others), system here is very open and you can follow typical archetype or mix playstyles as you wish…mage conjurer, fighter with back up drones, etc. Some of requirements later on could be a bit higher though ( to further reward specialization).

Anyway really enjoyed the setting and "ground" level stories, hope there is more focus on that.

azarhal August 25th, 2017 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty (Post 1061469320)
I'll be jumping into this some time soon, how much is it different, builds/gameplay wise from previous one?

Only the Matrix was changed, the rest is like Dragonfall (maybe some more weapons/skills but I didn't keep track).

Pladio August 26th, 2017 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty (Post 1061469320)
I'll be jumping into this some time soon, how much is it different, builds/gameplay wise from previous one?
Went with Decker/Rigger in Dragonfall: strong class, but takes a lot of time/$ to pay off, think mage was better for newcomers.
Combat was solid, best when number of turns play a part in scenarios( stop reinforcements, escape, etc)..still I'd take it over any real time with pause. Feels like it could use more dynamic play between classes though.

As for "forcing the player" into class…(unless they changed things drastically) could not disagree more with that.
Unlike, say Gothic ( where only decision for char building is made right at start of the game: strength, dexterity, mage…so you non stop pump points in main attribute) or Baldur's Gate( where stats have a clear use for only one type of character, while useless for others), system here is very open and you can follow typical archetype or mix playstyles as you wish…mage conjurer, fighter with back up drones, etc. Some of requirements later on could be a bit higher though ( to further reward specialization).

Anyway really enjoyed the setting and "ground" level stories, hope there is more focus on that.

I think HK has the same level of storytelling to Dragonfall but with the length of game between Switch and Dragonfall. That makes it a better game to me than the other two, where I felt DF was dragged out… The main gameplay difference is the matrix, where it has become arcadey.

I am enjoying myself, but I will probably not play a TB game for a while after this :D
(although I keep saying that…)

I think I have another 5-8 hours of gameplay as I have finished the first larger set of main quests apparently and all companion quests (AFAIK).

BoboTheMighty August 27th, 2017 19:23

Well DF did suffer from Bioware syndrome.
Playing through JE now, really feels kind of odd, the way everyone stays put in one small room (How the hell they don't go crazy?) and waits for player interrogation.
Stage 1: Yeah? Look, we have mission to do, so let's keep it professional.
Stage 2: Well, I guess I could tell you a bit about myself, long as we keep it brief.
Stage 3: The Mysterious Past begins to reveal itself.
Stage 4: Full disclosure, if you're nice you get an extra mission/loot/experience points
Stage 5: Player gets laid/Best friends forever!
Overall, it needs more spontaneity, and char development out of player control. Remember Obsidian had a great idea for start of Cass romance in New Vegas.

Pladio August 28th, 2017 01:13

Well, I finished the main campaign. I actually enjoyed the final boss battle. Although, not terribly difficult, it did stretch my resources for the first time in the game.
I had to use 3/4 of my summons + some in the environment and a few medkits.

I also like that previous decisions in the campaign had an effect on the ending. I won't spoil it here, but some runs include decisions which can change how the final two missions go.

In the end, like I said, it's an enjoyable game for what it is, but I think it could have been better.

I will play through the bonus campaign as well. Apparently that's 5 more missions, so probably another 5-8 hours of gameplay.

I finished the game in 27 hours according to Steam, which is probably relatively accurate (minus an hour or two of leaving the game on here and there).

BoboTheMighty August 30th, 2017 12:14

So which is best then for first run? Fun to play, fairly OP, isn't something already done by companions?

Pladio August 30th, 2017 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty (Post 1061470088)
So which is best then for first run? Fun to play, fairly OP, isn't something already done by companions?



I'm not sure. There's each type of companion :
Shaman/Mage, decker, samurai, drone rigger, shooter.

I guess you could do adept or Mage.
Not sure which would be OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BoboTheMighty September 1st, 2017 20:58

Ok, I'm jumping into this next. If I botch my build, holding Pladio personally responsible! :shakefist:

azarhal September 1st, 2017 21:24

I played through HK with Adept, it start a bit weak (went full melee), but by the end the last boss was super easy, lol.

Pladio September 2nd, 2017 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty (Post 1061470454)
Ok, I'm jumping into this next. If I botch my build, holding Pladio personally responsible! :shakefist:

Lol you're the one who said this :
Quote:

As for "forcing the player" into class…(unless they changed things drastically) could not disagree more with that.
I think most builds are viable, but you do need to specialise a bit, unless you go into the game on easy. I played on Normal and managed most fights without any issues. I probably should have played on Hard to be honest.

BoboTheMighty September 3rd, 2017 14:47

Well, I'm into it, just about to do a first mission "run".
But I'm liking it even more than Dragonfall, love the introduction, feels more ground level oriented, whole life-on-the-run-don't-know-how-to-trust, more "cyberpunk".
Map seem better designed, more dynamic, sounds in particular, feels a lot more "alive" than say, static paintings in Pillars or with similar games.
Writing? Can't say, there is some excess, but it is of same quality, if not better, it feels more "personal" than ton of dry descriptives, like in some games.
Can't really see complaints, unless it takes a dive later on.
Good to see some eastern rpgs, refreshing setting, first Jade Empire, now this, seems they're making a come back. ;)

Pladio September 3rd, 2017 15:53

How is this an eastern RPG ?

Kordanor September 3rd, 2017 16:29

He means western RPGs in eastern settings ;)

BoboTheMighty September 4th, 2017 15:12

Love the dialogue here, they could def trim some metaphors, but ( lot of times) it does what most rpgs fail at:Interaction (instead of interrogation).
Npc's will remember what you say, and your responses will be different, feels much more two-sided, and more natural, less stilted by rpg restrictions( Good/Evil/PoE types, etc). They also stepped up on etiquettes it seems.

Pladio September 4th, 2017 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty (Post 1061470829)
Love the dialogue here, they could def trim some metaphors, but ( lot of times) it does what most rpgs fail at:Interaction (instead of interrogation).
Npc's will remember what you say, and your responses will be different, feels much more two-sided, and more natural, less stilted by rpg restrictions( Good/Evil/PoE types, etc). They also stepped up on etiquettes it seems.

Yes, the dialogues don't seem forced, but some of them can be quite more of monologues than dialogues :D

I still think they should have simply worked on the main game and created campaigns there or expanded the main one. I feel like they wasted too much time upgrading their engine/assets/matrix instead of creating quality games.


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