Small Detail Ideas for ELEX 2
 

I know it's a bit early (to say the least :P) to talk about ELEX 2, but I'm enjoying the first one so much and had a few ideas of how I'd improve it, so I'll list them here.

1 - Binoculars. It would be cool to scout areas in the distance from a tall mountain peak or roof of a high building. You can do this to an extent already, but binoculars would really enhance it, especially if you're searching for say, a World Heart, in the distance and don't want to use quest markers.

2 - Survival. Food/water/sleep/etc.. Rather than simply restoring health it would be cool if the game had a Survival Mode where food and water would be taken into consideration for survival as well.

3 - Companion inventories. While it might be harder to balance and what not, it would be cool to have real inventories for your companions like in the Gothic games. You could give them weapons or other items to use, etc..

4 - Scouting skills. This kind of ties into Idea 1 up there, but it would be cool if you could learn scouting skills to scout an area before getting too close. You can use a bow and see the enemy name, their level, etc., already, but it would be cool to enhance that, or even just tie it entirely to a scouting skill. The better a scout you are, the more details you could learn about a creature from a farther distance. A sort of "Nature Lore" type of skill in a way.

5 - Gothic 3 hunting skills. While I'm not entirely sure how they'd make traditional hunting fit into an ELEX world (maybe with fantastical beasts, or hunting mech animals? :P), it would be cool to have herds of grazing animals in certain "hunting ground" areas, as well as detailed skills and perks to enhanced hunting. Gothic 3 had a lot of great hunting and hunting-related stuff, from getting perks to be able to kill prey or game animals faster to skills to pull better trophies. They should bring this back and add more trophy levels of skills to learn, i.e. not just "one trophy skill to harvest them all." And let hunting being a sort of game-within-a-game as it was in Gothic 3.

6 - Strange/tough/unique monsters at night. It would be cool if certain monsters only appeared at night in some areas. Whether it's some "named" unique monster or just a certain species here or there, it would be a cool touch to also add more nighttime exploration tension to the game.

I have more but I'll post them later.

What are some ideas you guys have for the game? Feel free to share. :)

My quick takes on your suggestions, just as a general rpg enthusiast:

1. I can see how that would come in handy.

2. Personally, I don't like survival mechanics in rpgs. To me, they are just pointless busy work that isn't fun most of the time. That said, I know that others enjoy it, and as long as the survival mode was optional, I see no problem with it.

3. Seems logical.

4. Yea, scouting skills sounds like a cool idea.

5. This is my favorite of your suggestions. I like hunting mechanics in rpg games, in general.

6. Yea, they should have this, it actually make me wonder why they don't - its a no-brainer. Things to enhance the differences between night and day cycles adds to the ambience and atmosphere of a game.

My quick takes, just as grindhater. :D

1. Absolutely yes, and it shouldn't be a problem to code - if Watch Dogs 2 could, anyone can. Besides, what's an exploration game without gadgets like these?

2. No. Didn't I say somewhere else this game is not supposed to be Neo Scavenger 2?

3. Thumb up!

4. That would turn it into the eagle from Assassin Creed Origins. Dunno what to say on this one. Lemme see how it works in ACO first, maybe it's fun.

5. If that would turn into grind2win, I'm against it. However if it would spawn finite targets of which some would be challenging, then hell yes! btw Elex already has the trophy skill to learn and improve.

6. No. I'm totally against time cycle spawn/despawn. The next day someone will get a brilliant idea that some trashmobs appear only if it's raining. Elex currently has a system where NPC/trashmob doesn't have to be at the same location during day and during night and it's great as you can still find whatever/whomever just not at the same spot.

Hire KaiRo. The music is currently pretty good, but it just doesn't add that KaiRo atmosphere. In fact, even now any one of the specific location tunes of Gothic 1-3 (for example Old Camp) will instantly make me remember that location, and send me into something of a nostalgia trip. That's very rare.

1. Glad you agree. :)

2. I think PB's style of dangerous world lends itself well to a Survival Mode though, at least as an optional mode you can set at the start of the game.

3. :thumbsup:

4. True. I just think that since they already give you scouting for free essentially (just pull out a bow and when you get close enough you automatically see the enemy's level, name of the enemy, etc.), it would be cool to put a few perks to that in the Survival tree. Or a new Scouting sub-tree if they really want to get expansive with it.

5. Hmm, define grind-to-win? In Gothic 3, investing in the expensive hunting skills makes a very good way to earn cash in the game. You can explore but also find hunting grounds along the path, take out a few Bison (if you have the perk that helps bring down large game animals, a decent bow, etc.) and make your shards, err, gold, that way.

I found it to be a fun side activity and a worthwhile way of making money in the game, while still being very challenging to get good at and having the usual PB progression curve.

6. Hmm, different enemies while it's raining doesn't seem too realistic, except maybe some giant worms appear or something (:P), but nighttime monsters kind of makes sense, in that some predators hunt at night, etc.. If they did it with a careful hand I think it could be interesting, and maybe make the nighttime exploration a bit different.

Thanks for the responses yo. :thumbsup: I'll add more to another post soon.

Make companions more in-depth and more varied relationship options.

More flexibility in how to create a character as it seems from many of Joxer's posts you tend to get forced into certain paths to earn money and get enough attribute points. Unless you really want to grind.

Make things less dependent on weapons and armor and more on natural ability (i.e. stats).

Thanks for sharing your ideas @wolfgrimdark! I have to disagree with points 2 and 3 you made. :( First one sounds good though. :)

Just to note something as I am positive you have misunderstood me @Fluent. I have no qualms about slow game play or having to invest time to earn a reward. That is not the issue. The complete opposite actually as one thing I do like about ELEX is the slow progression and how everything you get really means something because you have earned it. But so far that has come naturally through exploring and quests - it hasn't come about because I have farmed respawning monsters and plants to earn experience and money.

What I do dislike is a typical grind, as in what is done in an MMO, where you have to spend hours repeatedly killing things over and over and over and over to level or earn money. MMO's are notorious for that. There is no place for it in an SRPG.

If I can earn enough money and experience through natural exploration of a game as I explore and by doing quests then its all golden and good.

If I have to farm things by returning to places over and over and over to kill things to earn experience and money - places I have already visited and fully explored and done all quests at - then that is bad game design. A player should never be required to do a boring grind of the same content over and over to be able to progress in a game. I also should not have to follow a detailed "maximize" path to earn money and experience but be able to pick various ways of earning said things. I don't want to be thief in the game so should have other options besides grinding to make money. Of course in a game that is all about playing a thief that would be different :)

Proper balance means having enough content and ways to earn money and experience so that you level naturally by exploring and doing quests.

I am NOT saying ELEX is like this right now as I am only level 9 and I have not had to grind a single thing so far and have so much to explore and do. I was basing my grind comments on posts made by Joxer and other users that were suggesting the game becomes grindy later on. I haven't gotten there yet so I do not know if that is true or not.

As for the third - a personal thing. I prefer abilities to be innate and not totally dependent on loot. I like equipment to enhance one's abilities but not be the defining determinant of ones power.

DOS2 is a really fun game but loot is king in that game. I can play that way okay and still enjoy the game but since this was a wish list, and since I have my preference, I stated it. So I can enjoy DOS2 and ELEX being totally loot dependent but given a choice I prefer it more balanced between stats, skills, and loot. OFten times that is helped via difficulty sliders. I play on easiest mode in DOS2 which allows me to be somewhat less loot dependent. While ELEX "easy" is most games "normal" it still has allowed me to worry a bit less about things. I will be curious to see if that holds up later on in the game.

I did understand you, I just don't think you have to farm in PB games. I'm only 50 hours in to ELEX but I haven't done any farming, far from it, and I don't think I ever did anything like in the previous Gothic or Risen games either. In Gothic 3, which I played a couple months back, I did some hunting to raise some money to buy better gear at one point, etc., but that was more because I wanted to get a hold of a better bow quicker and you can hunt different hunting grounds in that game for fun and profit. But it's not required.

There is a level of "having" to explore to get stronger, get better gear, etc., but that's the difference in a PB game vs. another RPG. Same thing with Morrowind, when Caius Cosades tells you to go out and get stronger before tackling the difficult missions he had for you. If you were just exploring naturally from Seyda Neen to Balmora, you wouldn't nearly be strong enough or have the right equipment to tackle those missions.

As for your second point, loot has always been very important in PB games as part of their core design. There is a good balance in ELEX to me, because skills are also quite important. For example, a single point of grenades adding 10% more damage is pretty significant when small numbers in the game make a large difference. But PB games generally have a realism aspect to loot in which a single set of armor is the difference between life and death. Same as the difference between a gnarled tree branch and a sharp sword, etc.. So I'm pretty cool with that aspect in their games, and ELEX doesn't have anything that deviates from their design in that regard. At least to me.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it though @wolfgrimdark. Seems we have some similar ideas and outlooks on these types of games. I find it interesting to read your comments especially as a first-time PB player coming from a big Skyrim fan. Sometimes that can be hit or miss but you are already appreciating the differences in details between them.

I wouldn't worry about having to grind just yet. But like I said, I haven't joined a faction, 50 hours in, yet I have plenty of Elexit. At least enough to where I'm buying so many grenades (which in turn, due to the non-level scaled world, let me take on challenges a bit higher than I should be able to.) Spending $10k on a faction armor seems very doable by the time I get there, and I've just been doing quests mainly with some exploration around those quests, poking my head in different ruins I see, etc.. However, I also make sure not to buy every shiny thing I see, which I think is important to do in PB games. Managing money, heh.

Not saying you're doing this, but sometimes first-time PB gamers also think items are "unbalanced" or the progression is "broken" in their games, but it's not really. It's just that their design is kind of foreign and has to be "figured out" to see how to really progress well in their games. But you already seem to have figured a lot of that out so you're good to go. :)

Thanks for the details and added clarification … I shall keep the faith even if I still plan on going with the Beserkers instead of the Clerics. They still seem like a nice bunch overall.

Can't go wrong with the magic faction! :) I do not read spoilers but I did see that much later in the game you can get very strong with any faction.

I was going to go Berserkers but am switching to the Outlaws. Shoot, I may even learn more about the Clerics as I just opened up exploration of their base, Hort. Fun stuff. :)

Copying this from the Abilities Question thread.

I would hope PB has added decent consequences for using it (consuming ELEX potions, etc.), other than slightly getting colder. It does remind of me of Moon Sugar/Skooma from TES, though. For some reason developers seem hesitant to code that sort of challenge into the game, i.e. an addiction or permanent nasty side effect of using certain items. Shame because there is a lot of potential for interesting features there IMO.

I love ELEX but after playing more I do wish some features were more hardcore, or at least they would give you an option to make it harder if you want. Things like:

Stiffer penalty for using technology around Berserkers (other than just them shouting at you.)

More of a penalty for consuming ELEX.

Wish the game had the Gothic 3 system where if you stole enough items from a town the guards would start questioning you. You could use a skill to try and talk your way out of it. Would be neat if there were just more consequences for theft in ELEX all around.

And stuff like that. I know that stuff might be too challenging for a lot of gamers but if they gave us the option at the start of the game to turn that stuff on, it might be the best RPG I've ever played. It's already somewhat close to that the way it is.

Oh, and maybe go with the original idea of powering the jetpack with Elexit, heheheh. And finally, a Consequences Mode that removed saving and re-loading to choose different options. I.e. if you got caught stealing, or made a choice in dialogue, you had to live with it and couldn't reload if it didn't go how you wanted it to. Again, it would be an option you could turn on at the beginning of the game and it would have to be balanced towards that type of experience with a careful hand, but it could be cool, bros…

Yeah there should be more of a penalty for consuming Elex. But I think if they do that there should be an alternative more expensive way of getting stat points and skill points via mana otherwise it wouldnt be fair.

I think if they add night enemies, they should be asleep during the day, and give you more xp when you kill them at night or more items to compensate for the difficulty. If they disappear in the day, that would be dumb.

Well they could use some sort of lore about creatures that hunt at night, sure. And in the day, they sleep, like in a cave, and they can "protect" them sort of like how they "protect" Ragnar, etc.. I.e. put a few really tough creatures together, so you couldn't "cheat" and attack them in the day as you'd have to take on several of them at once. So yeah, that would be pretty cool I think.

Anyone else want to see a button that slightly alters the jetpack angle outside of combat? Like, two modes, vertical or horizontal. I wouldn't want complete horizontal that lets you fly like superman, but a more pronounced horizontal angle for traveling on the map could be cool. They'd have to keep the basic vertical jetpack for combat, and then maybe add a toggle switch outside of combat for exploration. Thoughts on that?

I wouldnt mind that at all actually.

I'd like multiple hotbars, cyclable with a couple of keys.
A hotkey to hide the hud, especially the hotbar (or a smarter hud.)
A first person option… probably until a melee weapon is drawn.
Subcategories of item in vendor screens, to match the other inventory screens.

And plenty of other things, but those seem like they are pretty small :)

I agree with these.

The first-person option for sure. I had an idea that there should be a first-person option that draws back to 3rd person when in combat. Or, even an option to stay in first-person.

I know I'm in a small minority but I played Gothic 2 to completion in first-person, and I'm playing Gothic 3 the same way. It does limit the combat of course, but I like the exploration in first-person.

For Elex itself, I wish they'd included a difficulty slider to make the economy a bit harsher later on somehow. I have more upgraded weapons that I'd like to use than fit into my available hotslots. It's kind of ridiculous between 1H sword, 2H sword, bow, crossbow, laser, plasma, heavy weapons. Plus my faction mandated magics.

It could also do with a 'food' hotkey, where it chooses what to eat without my constant having to hotkey different meals. I think Two World II did that.

Torch hotkey would be cool, too. And agreed on the economy (harsher is almost always better IMO) and pretty much agree on the specific hotkeys (although I wouldn't want an MMO style multi-hotbar, like ever. :) )

I wonder if they'd see any advantage from switching engine. Maybe they could license REDEngine from CDPR. For Elex 2: Elexiter.

Their engine is great IMO, and I think developing it for such a long time is a bonus, not a hindrance. They know it inside and out and continue to do great things with it.

I think moving to a newer, prettier engine would cost them gameplay elements and overall depth in some ways. I don't think they're willing to do that.

Since you're comparing it to mainstream titles, did you also check GTA and Minecraft while you were at it? ;)

Dunno, if a mod kit was somewhat easy to add, sure, why not? Gothic 2 is getting mods now all these years later, including graphics upgrades, so why not ELEX?

If it would take too many resources to develop, fugghedaboudit.

It's likely to require a significant amount of work, unless the engine supports it right from the start. They could probably have baked it in as they were creating the engine though.

Gothic 1 had its modkit. It doesn't seem like any of the distinctive PB systems have evolved since the first game really. More polygons being pushed with better performance but scriptable schedules and events all seem the same.

ELEX takes it to the next level in some ways, though. Already had an NPC that is story-changing die at the hands of wildlife, etc.. That can happen in Gothic but ELEX is their best expression of those systems yet IMO. Those events change the story but don't destroy it, the story adapts to those situations.

Plus, they have to wait for everyone else to catch up. Those systems in Gothic were 10+ years ahead of the game. Still are in many ways. :lol:

In Gothics, it was possible a wildlife killed NPC could make the game incapable of being finished. Happened to me when the only NPC trainer in the game for an essential skill was killed before I had a chance to learn it. I was not happy!! :(

In the outlaw town it is possible to get the first area in that town wiped out by mutant bugs by leading them into there.

Huh, even after the patch? I just did that quest and the townsfolk were surprisingly strong and killed the bugs much easier than even Bullet and Lucy did.

Remember, I play on "ultra" difficulty, those things kill me with one hit the first time i went there.

Yeah I'm on Ultra too. They kill me quick but when a couple got loose inside the Fort they got put down quickly.

I am talking about the second set that comes.

Those bugs spawning are triggered by

Wasn't that whole thing patched already?
I mean I can't redo it as Lucy died in my game before the patch.

What was patched was the first time you enter the fort when they get attacked. They give you a quest, if you dont complete it, they get attacked again and they die which I think is intentional.