But all those things are about mastering the game. And as I said, you cannot really claim making characters is bad if you don't understand the intricate details about the game.
I am only here arguing about objective things you claimed. Maps, trade and all that is subjective and I cannot argue vs that. You either like that part or not.
But if PoE is master of one thing, that is making builds.

Whether you like trading in general is subjective. But I think most critics will usually not attack trading itself, but rather a) being forced to do it and b) the lack proper tools to do it. And that is not subjective. Those are valid concerns.

PoE today is a completely different game today than it was 3 or 4 years ago. COMPLETELY.

Any discussion involving that version of the game is pretty much moot. Ie., it's pointless to go back and forth with you on a version of the game that no longer exists.

yeah that is what they told me. Unfortunately i don't play it anymore so i don't know what's going on except what i hear.

Both those points are subjective. Some people don't mind that the game leans towards trading and others do mind a lot. Also some people want trading to be harder to do and some want it easier.

Personally I would not mind less focus on trading and as a compensation better drop rates for those rarer items.

Only objective thing here is if you measure how much time you spend using the existing trade tools vs playing the game itself and comparing that to D2 where trading tools were even worse or D3 AH where trading was made much easier.

So you haven't played it for a long time yet you have harsh critisism for its current state (looking back at your first posts in this thread). Okey then.

I've played PoE since the beta also and the game has gotten better and better. I'd say you haven't completed the game yet if you haven't killed both the Elder in red maps and the Shaper.

To be fair my criticism was about the "old" version, the one that i played. I hear bad things about newer stuff but i didn't say anything about it cause i lack direct experience of it.

Path of Exile - The Comment Section of the Undying.

I thought this kind of games are heavy about the loot and your character looks, but in PoE all the cool looking gear (compared to Diablo 3) comes from cash shop!
I ran hours and hours and still my character looked like low level bum at max lvl.
I understand they must make some money, but I lose enthusiasm to continue to play when I know there is nothing cool I can get from next bosses and levels, except just numbers on my gear.

And as far as I remember the gameplay mostly looked like some magic ball (your character) jumps and blasts everything in his way, pressing just one button/skill for whole game - I hardly find it entertaining, so in the end Diablo 3 did it all better for me.

I think Diablo 3 has the best graphics….and that's it. It is a pretty awful, boring slogfest of a game. I liked D2 so much I went to 2 Blizzcons just to play it, and D3 is maybe the only game ever that got worse and worse and had LESS features as development went on.

Unlike many here I like ARPGs as much if not more than traditional RPGs- (as an example voice acting and incessant dialogue bores me to tears) while I really enjoy the interaction of loot with different builds,the development of characters and progression, the spontaneous feel of ARPGs, the mystery and excitement of cool drops. I also only play hardcore, I cannot stand dying through content repeatedly in any game but much less in an ARPG.

I would rank D3 among the very worst. It essentially has no skill system, the loot is hellishly boring since the Loot 2.0 update, the main story is unplayable, rifts are boring and despite great graphics the levels themselves are uninteresting.

Both Grim Dawn and POE are far more interesting and fun to play. The skill and gem system in POE is just brilliant, and the skill system in GD (basically Titan Quest) is great. Part of the fun for me is trying and discovering new builds and approaches to the game. I do NOT and have never understood people just copying other peoples builds. Why even play the game?

If I were to rank the ARPGs it would look something like this

1. Divine Divinity
2. Diablo 2
3. Sacred
4. Titan Quest
5. Grim Dawn
6. Path of Exile
7. Torchlight 2
8. Van Helsing
9. Torchlight 1
10. Chronicon

I also like Hellgate London, Victor Vran, Silverfall, Sacred 2, and others. D3 would likely be around the 15 spot or less for me. D3 in its original state with the RMAH was maybe one of the worst major release games ever. It was a far better game 4 years earlier in its development at Blizzcon. They had a lot of interesting systems planned and just gutted them all.

To those who like ARPGs: Wolcen development is very slow, but in its current state it is showing real promise to be an exceptional ARPG when all is said and down. The improvement in the last 5 months or so had been dramatic.

Fair enough.

I think it has the best moment-to-moment gameplay by FAR - and also the most satisfying skill variety of all of them. Every single skill and skill combination just feels great.

PoE is ok - but a bit early 2000s in that way. GD is just boring as hell when it comes to combat. I mean, it's servicable and passable - but it can't hold a candle to games that's so clearly on another level of craftsmanship.

Then again, I actually care a lot about the experience of playing the game - and I can't enjoy the spreadsheet aspect of a game if the game itself is missing.

Diablo 3 isn't perfect, for sure, but it has a visceral gameplay that's completely unmatched by PoE and GD.

Which isn't a great surprise. Blizzard tend to have the best craftsmen - and their budgets are much, much larger.

Small indie teams can hardly compete when it comes to production values, polish or quality of aesthetics.

I'm sure people can tell themselves that, but I find that too unrealistic to take seriously.

I would agree that the combat presentation combing graphics, effects, and feel is by far the best of all the games. And the paper doll element of how your characters look in different equipment is unparalleled, However to me the entire experience is completely empty. Every skill is pretty much exactly as effective as every one else, so the only skill choice really comes down to which skill effect you most like seeing. Also as good as the visceral combat is the mechanics of the fights and the skills they use are incredibly repetitive and boring. They probably spent a $100 million dollars on D3 development and they came up with this. It SHOULD have the best graphics. D3 was ruined by a lead developer that fundamentally not only did not understand, but did not actually like ARPGs and the greed of Kotick who forced the whole RMAH thing.

Maybe its just its own thing- and Action Combat isometric game. It really is not an ARPG

You sound like someone who hasn't played D3 since its release :) They put another guy in charge and fixed a ton of flaws with the game.

Kotick had absolutely nothing to do with the RMAH or D3 - that was purely the design team.

Blizzard makes more money than God for Activision - and Kotick is smart enough to understand that you should never interfere with a cash cow that good.

Personally, I think RMAH was the best thing about D3 and I hated to see it go, but that was for legal reasons. They made it sound like it was for the fans - but if you do a little research, it was obvious why they did it.

As for skills being the same - I very much disagree. As I said, I think D3 has the best skill variety of all the game in this genre.

They feel different and they have different effects and synergies. That said, D3 doesn't have useless skills like so many other RPGs, if that's what you mean. They actually wanted all skills to have their uses.

But that's a Blizzard thing - it's the same in all their games. They keep balancing until all choices can be viable - but they're never equally viable. That's bullshit.

But if you want to compete on the highest difficulty levels - you can't just pick random skill setups. You have to gear properly and pick the right combinations.

But I agree that PoE and GD both have much more complicated and interesting progression systems.

They're just boring as hell to actually play and look at - compared to D3.

All good and I played as recently as the expansion. I think it is a crappy game and pretty much disagree with everything you have said, but to each their own.