Cyberpunk 2077 - Inherently Political
 

PC Gamer reports that Cyberpunk 2077 will be staying true to the settings themes.

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I can't wait to have CDProjekt accused of being cyber-antifa Soros shills by one side, and racist ethnocentrists by the other side. It's gonna be bloody glorious (or not).

Well, Witcher 3 had some not-so-subtle things to say about politics, so I would expect nothing else for CP2077.

Personally, I prefer stories centered around human drama and psychology - so I hope politics won't be the primary drive for the narrative.

Also, I have to say I particularly enjoy sci-fi horror - so I hope there are bits of "alien research" or "abandoned labs" here and there :)

But the fact that it's first person is great news to me. For me to get fully immersed in a game, I really need to look through the eyes of my character - and I'm very happy to hear they went this route for CP2077.

Can you give me exemple? I promess to keep this discussion clean.


I hope not. Of the two franchise, Shadowrun is the fantasy/horror one. Cyberpunk is more centered around politics, police, criminality and social unrests ( and of course cybernetic).

Well, Geralt makes several statements throughout the Witcher series about his opinion and general disdain for Kings and their petty schemes - which is often based on trivial human weaknesses and greed.

I don't remember much in the way of specifics, because I'm not a big fan of that kind of politically charged writing (I mean, it's cool and all - but I'm not that engaged with it). But I seem to recall that the beginning of Witcher 2 is more or less based entirely around a stupid conflict between those in power, and Geralt makes no secret of his position here :)

Also, he clearly despises the powerplay related to the Sorcerer's Lodge - and I don't think there's much doubt about CDPR being rather left-wing in their views when it comes to the treatment of supposed "inferior" species.

I'm very left-wing myself, so I can only sympathise with CDPR here - but I think it's clear that they had things to say about politics and political leaders in their games.

Which is fine.

Oh okay, We have the same point of view. I don't think they did it with a lack of subtility, they just did it accordingly to the books ( where Geralt is a total leftist for sure ).

But this is Indiana Jones "I hate Nazis" level of politically engaged fiction. It's more about giving flesh to a character rather than making a statement.
If it's too much for some ( not you, Tagnan), Cyberpunk is gonna give seizures to many. They won't talk about Crazy Kings and Elven rebels this time…

I think you're talking about Shadowrun having magic in it, right?

Cyberpunk is just a setting and a ruleset - and there's nothing inherently non-horror about it. That would be entirely up to the imagination and inclination of CDPR.

But we all like different things, and if sci-fi horror isn't for you - then that's cool.

Hmm, I guess I don't necessarily interpret that kind of general critique of people in power as being inherently left-wing, though. People on the right tend to hold disdain for the powerful, too… The disagreement just comes in who the powerful elites are. I.e., Us lefties point to greedy corporations & their obscenely wealthy CEOs whereas the right focuses on "the liberal media", Hollywood, (and of course Soros as if he's the only billionaire who meddles in politics). There's even occasionally overlap (at least as far as us peaceniks & paleo-cons are both critical of the "military industrial complex"). So it's just a question of who you want to see the Sorcerer's Lodge as an allegory for.

Of course I'm speaking about the US, don't know much about politics of other countries; though I gather in many other Western countries your conservatives would probably be considered "centrists" here, as actual lefties are a rare breed in American politics (though thankfully that seems to be changing as of late).

Anyway, Dart, I suppose you're referring mainly to the racial conflict, which I can agree CDPR has a left-leaning viewpoint on. Oddly enough though, I don't really recall seeing anyone complaining about it (i.e., no one called complaining about an "SJW" agenda in The Witcher series). Though I'm sure those people are out there, perhaps there weren't so many because each games you a choose as to which factions to side with… You can be against the nonhumans in the first game, or neutral, you can side with Rosche or Iorveth in W2….. I found it hard not to sympathize with the non-humans, but if you do go the other route, to my the best of recollection the games don't really judge you for it, really.

Arg! Double post.

I played a lot of both table top games. Shadowrun campaigns always had some genetically modified insect monsters infesting a secret base or some demon possessing a robot and other cool horror stuff like that. I never see that kind of thing in a Cyberpunk campaign. It's a more rational setting…

As you said, it's not impossible, but it would be weird. Like having a ghost story in The Wire or some vampires in Starsky and Hutch ( oh, wait… )

Well, in my opinion, aliens aren't necessarily supernatural :)

But it was just the first thing that came to mind. I'd be fine with "genetic experiments" or whatever. It's trivial from a story point of view to come up with a reasonably plausible underpinning for some nice horror elements.

But that's because I adore sci-fi horror.

Of course, CDPR should decide what they want to do - and I'm sure they're pretty determined to do exactly that :)

Certainly, the game sounds very good indeed - so I'll more than likely be playing it regardless of the story context.

Well, I'm primarily referring to my perception of the Geralt character and persona. It seems to me he's the "voice" of CDPR - and the one you're supposed to identify with.

Of course, there's some leeway there - but I certainly consider his views mostly left-wing.

I can say that with reasonable confidence, as I'm almost always in agreement with him - and I'm about as left-wing as they come :)

Of course, I'm not a fan of political black and white labels like "left-wing" or "right-wing" - but there's no denying which would be the more appropriate for myself, if I had to pick just one.

As for complaints, I have to say I think Witcher 3 has become sort of the holy grail of the gaming community.

People don't really dare to complain - because they know they'll be attacked by rabid fans very shortly after pointing out flaws.

Personally, I think all games have flaws - even my most beloved favorite games - so I think it's trivial to talk about.

But I know some people get really riled up because they're "loyal" to a game - and that's ok. I don't blame them for being human in that way.

But I'm not really complaining about these political messages. I think it's fine - it's just not really what motivates me to engage with the narrative.

For instance, I found the middle part of Witcher 3 (the Novigrad/Skellige stuff) incredibly dull for the most part - because much of it was about the powerplay of the city and the Eternal Fire/Skellige Clans stuff.

To me, the personal drama of the Bloody Baron and Ciri/Geralt interactions etc. were much, much more engaging and touching.

But that's because I'm very interested in human behavior and psychology. Politics tend to be somewhat impersonal - and I'm just really not into that kind of narrative. I also don't watch political shows like West Wing or House of Cards. I find them so incredibly narrow and predictable - because I know exactly what people in power are about and how they will behave to achieve more power.

Same goes for certain Bioware games, by the way. I really didn't care for the politics in Dragon Age - for instance.

Most kings are petty but having said that I hope cyberpunk has a very rich political statement and is broad enough that the player can make their own choices.

If there is no political message on a game about a City where crime is a given, Private Insurance companies have an official right to kill on sight, people can be harvested of their natural or artificial organs in a back alley and corruption is the flavor of the day they did not understand the game and the context.

I'm hoping that they focus more on good content with an excellent story rather than any political plots.

I'm pretty sure they means social class warfare politics which is a huge theme in the setting (rich vs poor, street gangs vs corporate, etc).

Well in the guess game it could also be political because of being used for the agenda of someone or some group against someone else to gain politic leverage.
To go on with the example of TW3 that is what happens in Novigrad were the Witcher is trying to remain neutral while everyone around is vying to involve him to get some kind of ace in their hand.
It is a trope in Cyberpunk where reputation for Corporations or gangs is vital

TW3 is full of all kinds of racism. Witchers are generally hated, nonhumans are hated by humans and sometimes vice versa, "monsters" regardless of their actual character/agenda, are victims of everyone just because they're considered monsters.
Then there is a king who decided sorcery needs to be banned and is disposing of sterile sorceresses because… I guess in his mind there is a phobia they'll give birth to more magic users.
Etc etc.

I'm hoping CP2077 will have all sorts of stuff like that.

They should throw in a "Make Anarchy Great Again" cap…

There is no cyberpunk without political themes.

That is not an either/or scenario.

Well, sounds interesting. I can see needing a game review from one of the many fine, upstanding, always honest and unbiased journalists, to tell us which political position and decisions to take in the game. One will be the path of the supremely virtuous, saintly, faultless Hillary supporter, and the other will be the dark, diabolical, Nazi lovin', deepest evil and satan's spawn of the ever deplorable Trump supporter. :p

I, of course, will choose and be playing the trump supporter's path…(evil laugh)

https://static.thenounproject.com/png/76988-200.png
https://78.media.tumblr.com/7255e750…q82eo1_500.png

https://i.imgur.com/kwGC0pR.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/JbTqRoc.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cbxa-CjUkAA3vbi.jpg

:biggrin:

Politicization has never been the issue. TW series has been political since the beginning.

There is no escapism, players expect their vision of the world to dominate every corner, to be present everywhere. That is what they desire.

Anytime they feel politicization is not the one they expect, they react angrily.

Cyberpunk 2077, by the looks of its highly diverse population, that does not even fit modern days Poland, is going to be very good.

Every piece of art has a message. And every message is political.

I'd prefer a massage, but alas…

Ok, you're allowed to shoot me for the bad pun.

Plot twist: In reality the Trump path and Hillary path are basically the same. Either way you're doing the bidding of megacorporations.

Not exactly. The Hillary path would be serving corporations in the longer term using smaller steps - while Trump is all about the short term.

The problem with the Trump method is that it will have larger consequences and they will be felt sooner - and it will be especially brutal for the people outside the circle of wealth.

Perhaps, but in the Hillary path, the people grow complacent accept their fate as corporate wageslaves (i.e., the proverbial frog in boiling water) , whereas in the Trump path people get angry and rise up against the system.

Don't get me wrong, I supported Hanna Eisig for queen in Eisenwald: Blood of November, but only because Dieter Horn is such a pompous idiot.

Are you sure you want to see the result of the people outside the circle of wealth rising up against the people inside of it?

Are we still talking about a game? ;)

Shhhhh. Let the minions continue their pointless struggle.

Yes, this one since the character is told to serve the corporations.

Otherwise, it must be acknowledged that corporations are themselves servants.

And that Hillary or Trump would have served the same master: the US People.

Geralt was not left or right, he was whatever you chose to play him as.

I suppose you could even play him as a radical leftist, and leave the Drowners and other monsters alone to practice their culture. Or clear out the town and villages so the monsters could have their lands back.

I don't think you will find CD PROJECT RED (from Eastern Europe) are as polarized in viewpoint as other studios.

Cyberpunk is not inherently political; its inherently cynical.

Gibson's cyberpunk was more observational than it was pointing out issues (in contrast to say, Jurassic Park or anything Chrichton wrote). He described a society in the near future based on popular ideas of the time and speculated on the future affect of hologram technology and the internet - which 99.999% of people hadn't even heard of at the time of his writing. In doing so, he popularized the internet (which would have happened anyway) and spurred interest in, and created Virtual Reality.

The willful reliance on dehumanizing technology is about as political as he got - but even still, he would have seen the growing phenomenon of computer addiction thanks to home PC's.

The cynicism of his characters is borne out of the punk science fiction that had taken over in the late 70's, from the punk rock movement which adopted its understanding from that seminal book Future Shock - a critique of the hippy movement and the counterculture in general.

By the time the 80's come around, Reaganomics has popularized the corporatization of society without realizing why it wouldn't work and never acknowledging Black Monday and society's sudden turn to government when the inevitable recession happened in later books after this happened.

Real religion, a rarity in science fiction, is interesting in his writing but its mainly used as a tool for the stories and an observation of specific characters . Its also observational on how it changes and adapts with new technology, but not necessarily political.

His treatment of drug use is equally cynical. There's no commentary on it. People simply do it. Just like it doesn't comment on the growing influence of Japan and the power of organized crime.

However, If there's any commentary in it, its on the entertainment industry and the level of cult status of pop icons.

It would be the case if CDProjekt was working on a Neuromancer adaptation. All what you wrote is true only for Gibson's works. Not for the tabletop game Cyberpunk 2020 and the video game adaptation ( Cyberpunk 2077) who were created or supervised by Mike Pondsmith. Mike loves political comments.

Different beast…

Nothing cynical.

Assuming the normalization of behaviours is making a very strong political statement as it means a definitive change in political paradigms.