For myself personally the explanation is quite simple: I specifically couldn't immerse into Adam Jensen. I've completed both games but experienced them as quite shallow which I think is mainly because of this. I felt more like a passenger than the driver.

Deus Ex isn't even a great cyberpunk game, you don't really play the right character for the theme, same in System Shock.. This is what i love about this game, you finally get to play a "punk" ;)

Fair enough, to each his own.

I don't think it will be a full virtual second life experience. There will some corner of Night City with nothing or not much to do.
But : drinking a coffee while listening to casual converstations, watching ads or a boxing fight on our way to our gundealer or ripdoc, or to a side quest, like we've seen V doing in the trailer seems immersive enough.
Way more than visiting the empty postcard that are GTA's cities anyway (I like thoses games because I like driving, but there's not much to do beside that if you like free-roaming).
The first person view will help a lot, as it forced them to make even more detailled place than in TW3.

I don't know, fans are also the most gatekeeping, virulent critics sometimes.
Half of the fans/gamers are upset by the first person view, and CDP basically responded: "shut up, it will be better that way".
I think we're fine.

I may be an hardcore fan of them myself, but I already have a lot of complaint here and there about what I've seen (the armored boss at the end for exemple, WTF was that? I want to fight cyber-punks, not mech-thugs!! >:O).

Isn't it always spread out though? I mean, that's the whole point of it being open-world to begin with. How spread out it's going to be depends on the size of the game world. The larger the world, the more spread out the content is.

I also think Cyberpunk is going to have a much denser game world than what we had in TW3. The city setting naturally lends intself to that.

Well, maybe :)

They do seem to focus a lot on bringing the city to life - so there's definitely a lot of potential there.

I don't worry about immersion - but about interesting open world content. That's mostly based on my experience with their past games more than the video.

If I just looked at that video in a vacuum, I'd be over the moon for this game :)

As of now, I'm cautiously optimistic - but definitely still sceptical.

Yeah, the first-person thing was most definitely the right decision here.

With that said, I generally prefer first-person over third-person.

You do seem more balanced than certain other fans I could mention here ;)

I didn't mind the boss fight so much. I do think the bullet sponge MMO-like combat seemed a little off for the tone of the game.

I think it might have been better served with slightly less "gamey" combat - and I found the excessive violence a little silly.

Again, some of it feels more like a parody than a game I can take seriously. That whole shooting legs off people with a shotgun over and over was a little juvenile for my tastes.

I didn't claim that it's obvious to everyone. I'd say it's obvious to anyone with a realistic sense of what to expect.

And yeah, you don't have to sneak around in Deus Ex, but I find that style MUCH more immersive and satisfying in those games.

I hate anything "immersive". Except LSD trips, of course.

Same goes for another gaming industry meaningless word: vision. I know what to take to have one. Seems employees of gaming companies consume much more of that stuff than I do.

Exactly my point. To me, the hype is unrealistic in places - and comments like "This will be the Deus Ex I've always dreamed of" (or words to that effect) is not uncommon if you check Reddit or other forums.

I haven't read every single post in this thread, because it was already full of predictable fanboi defense brigade against contrarian Silver Coin - which is so dull - but I wouldn't be surprised if some of our local CDPR fans have similar expectations.

Not because they've sat down and really thought about it - but because they've let the hype take over.

Which is cool, if that's what you prefer - it's just not my approach.

So do I, and I will be spending all the 100+ hours of playing Cyberpunk in the exact same way, if I get the chance.

But… but you could go bowling with Roman!

It's not any different from other big-name releases in that way. It might be the most hyped one we've had in a while, but you always have unrealistic fans with unrealistic expectations.

That said, I'm not seeing a lot of that here.

More power to ya. I don't think I'd want to go that long sneaking around, but that's just me. :)

:biggrin:
You had to go bowling with him.
I liked the guy but man: "get a life Roman! I'm trying to become the kingpin here and it's busy work!"

Does it have to be a new thing, or?

That said, I do think CDPR is a unique case around the Watch - and in general. That's one area where I will agree with Silver Coin - that it's a strange thing to watch people who're so loud about the failings of modern CRPGs and streamlining almost unanimously praise a game that's so obviously catering to the big mainstream audience before "our" kind of hardcore CRPG fans.

I mean, if any other game had shown similar footage of bullet-sponge enemies and driving around town shooting people in moving cars in real-time - the game would have been named ANYTHING but a worthy CRPG.

joxer alone would have been frothing at the mouth about how looter-shooter mechanics had infested the game.

Just think if it had been footage from a Bioware game :)

Amusing, in a way - I suppose is the right word. At least to me.

Oh, I don't think we have any shortage of unrealistic people around here - but, as you say, that's common.

But I fail to see how that's relevant. Not everything I say is meant to be a big revelation or some kind of profound insight.

It's merely my opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Sometimes, I will make points that are supremely obvious - but that doesn't really make them invalid, in my mind.

One might argue the opposite could be true.

Well, the last two Deus Ex games were pretty big, too. I spent at least 60 hours sneaking around in Mankind Divided, for instance :)

It's not that I'm not tempted to try something else, it just doesn't fit with my playstyle once the consequences enter the picture.

That said, I mostly enjoy the exploration/hacking/reading stuff - and I find straight-up shooting very boring for the most part.

Let's remember that the content shown does not necessarily mean it'll look and play the same way in the final product.

Some good news for us who were annoyed by red letters pointers and other stuff:
https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-20…ings-optional/
Link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/Marcin360/status…95690876088321

No, did I say that?

I think it's normal to think of it as strange when a majority likes something more than you do. It's more popular and well-liked than you think it should be.. that's completely understandable. I'm pretty sure we all have games we feel that way about. KotOR would be one for me.

I think you'd have some people voicing that it looks too action-oriented… just like in this thread. :)

I was talking specifically about the discussion in this thread. I see a lot of natural excitement, but not the "Omg it's gonna be a 10/10 for sure!" you see in some forums. Bobo seems pretty geeked about it, but even he's been mostly factual from I've seen.

You certainly seem to be saying that hype is a normal thing, as if that was relevant to me saying that people are hyped.

I mean, I haven't said it's not normal? :)

It's still relevant, because hype tends to skew perspectives.

Again, I don't always mean to bring new or surprising information. I just say what I think is relevant to make my point.

Certainly, but that's not my point here. My point is that it's strange that people are so forgiving of CDPR when they're doing things they're usually vehemently against.

Well, I mean of course it's not actually strange. It just means that people are sometimes against things on principle or preconditioning instead of being objective - which is actually anything but strange to me.

You must understand that I am NOT against many of these things, and I actually like mainstream games more than is the norm around here.

I'm quite excited about Cyberpunk - if you couldn't tell.

Oh, I'm sure people would be as subdued about their criticisms :)

Oh, ok. As I said, I haven't read the entire thread - so maybe people aren't mostly praising it?

I only managed a handful of pages where there was a few "maybe best game ever" comments ;)

I think we all knew what Bobo would think, that's true.

I usually prefer 3rd person POV, so I'm not sure I can handle 200 hours of 1st person, but I will most certainly be giving it a go, as it looks fantastic.

That being said: I'm somewhat surprised about the hype. The game is years away from release, and even the mainstream media can't stop going on about how it'll blow every other game out of the water.

You said people were hyped, and I pointed out that it's a common thing, yes.

Perhaps we misunderstood each other. Anyways, I don't think it's worthwhile.

I think many people were forgiving because they simply liked the game a lot despite those things not because of them. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

I have no idea to be honest. I get that you think there's some kind of conspiracy against Bioware around here, but I don't think it's that complicated. A lot of people here just aren't very fond of their more recent games. It is what it is.


The majority seem to think it "looks" really good. I didn't see anyone trying to make factual sounding statements though. Well, other than Silver Coin and his usual bullshit.

Maylander said -- "That being said: I'm somewhat surprised about the hype. The game is years away from release, and even the mainstream media can't stop going on about how it'll blow every other game out of the water."

lol. :biggrin: Many people with certain ideologies are probably overjoyed that the trailer showed that black people are going to be in the game. They can now take a breath. They are now doing cartwheels in celebration!

But seriously, I just think that the follow-up to the Witcher 3 has a lot of people, including the gaming media, hyped. This is actually good for gaming, in my opinion. The best part is that CDP Red is from Poland, which is a very special place. They are a strong, proud, even nationalistic to a degree, type of country. Trying to put this delicately, they don't have the kind of influences on them that some *cough* uptight folks with certain political ideologies have in the United States, for example. And that is a good thing! A very good thing…:biggrin:

I'm not so sure about it being years away from release. I think it's realistic that it could be released by around this time next year or shortly after.