Kingmaker - Hotfix 1.1.1c released
 

A new hotfix 1.1.1c for Pathfinder: Kingmaker is out:

More information.

So whats up? No comments on this thread? Best game ever, best hotfix ever? How about some tips on another class roll? Remember - we need as much Kingmaker threads going on as possible!

@Zogar Sag No one is forcing you to read the thread :rolleyes:

Got the idea you don't like the game.

I never said Kingmaker is the best game ever either. But it is a fantastic game :)

But I indeed think we need a Pathfinder: Kingmaker subforum.

Btw, with this hotfix, you can no longer "save" all companions.

I concur but you'd have to ask @Myrthos. As forum space is limited.
Is that a spoiler as I haven't lost any yet?o_O

Spoiler of a sort, yes :P

Damn they better not now I'm worried.:uneasy:

Yay, they fixed the UW problem with the Kingdom UI - nice.

I love my monitor - but there's no denying the lack of UW support in several games has been quite the pain.

Now we are talking!
BTW I didn't said that I dont like the game, actually haven't played it that much - stopped because of horrendous loading times.

Bah, get back to playing it - it's pretty great.

Certainly the most authentic PnP experience in ages. I don't know if it holds up from start to finish (only somewhere in Chapter 2 - even after dozens of hours) - but if it does, it's probably the best D&D singleplayer game out there.

Loading times are a pain, certainly - but that's more or less par for the course for these games.

I can't be the only one remembering the old BG/BG2 loading screens? :)

I will get back to it, sure!
Though I cannot understand why this game is so badly coded or optimized to have such loooong loading times - its not Kingdom Come Deliverance, what there is to load?!

It's working as intended now. People who played it earlier had an advantage, like @Maylander . I lost one even before this hot fix (damn you, Owlcats with your design decision!)

All the items you leave behind in every single local map (with the exception of random encounter maps).

How many Unity CRPGs with insane data managment requirements have you coded, dear sir? :)

Kingmaker is one of the most ambitious games in recent times when it comes to the data structure. The amount of crap they have to keep track of is mindboggling - and they're using Unity to boot.

If you want something that's actually bad in terms of performance and what it's doing - you should check out Underworld Ascendant :)

Again, think back to games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment. Can you remember those loading screen with little visuals that were slowly filled out? Stuff was actually loaded during those displays :)

I dont think remembering how slow old game were loading back then is an excuse to modern age game.

Did you somehow miss the bit with Unity engine and insane amount of things the game tracks?

I think you're confusing my point with an excuse.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but in the "old days" some games loaded very quickly - and some didn't.

After Harddisks became the norm - and games were installed on them, loading times for games have remained more or less the same in the grand scheme of things - because data requirements have grown naturally with hardware capacity.

Yes, yes - SSDs have made a difference - but we're still limited by hardware in this way.

Some games load fast today - and some games load slowly.

I gave you an example of very, very similar games that loaded slowly in the past.

I'm not sure why that's an excuse - but whatever floats your boat.

I guess you know how to make data appear in memory without delay - so you should probably consider informing developers of your magic. It would be of great help to us all! :)

Sorry, cant replay you anymore, must run to taxi. But I get what you mean.

Btw I recently upgraded my HDD to SSD and moved Kingmaker there hoping to speed things up. But if it improved anything, its below my distinctive ability. On the other hand I think after the patch loading times improved quite a bit.

Just promise me that you'll get back to Kingmaker and try to forgive the load times.

It's worth it! ;)

Let's play games not war! ;)

There's no denying loading times are a pain - and they should have done something differently with the Kingdom Managment interface. That's my primary complaint with the game - that you have to actually load into the Throne room constantly to do stuff.

It's not really about the speed of loading data from disk, I don't think. It's more about data population and managment, I would guess.

They keep track of all items and they don't seem to decay. They're also using an absurdly complicated character system - and they're keeping track of all companions in any given scene.

I'm sure they could have done things in a smarter way - but it's really no different from Pillars of Eternity in this way.

They're working with Unity - which means it's not easy to change data loading paradigms into something very different.

All things considered, I'm very, very impressed by the level of care and attention to detail in Kingmaker.

At least, so far. The question is if it holds up from start to finish - which few games do.

I'm afraid not. In my opinion, the quality start to decline from late chapter 5, and the end of chapter 6 (+ optional chapter 7) has very questionable content design. THAT was my major gripe with Kingmaker. But overall, I still found it excellent since I spent more than 100 hours before getting to the problematic area.

Yes, I've heard a few people say something along those lines. I'm trying to be in denial about it - but you're making it hard :)

Unfortunately, I don't really measure quality in terms of hours spent or "initial fun" (if I did, Alien Isolation would be 10/10 instead of essentially crap) - but in terms of the overall experience.

I probably won't have time to finish this any time soon - but here's hoping they will be adding stuff and tweaking it for a few months, and maybe I won't have to see a bad ending! ;)

Let me clarify - what I meant is, the content is solid until the late chapter 5 (I'd say about 95%+ of the game?) :)

The end game content really "soured" my experience, but not enough to "ruin" the game for me. Overall, I had so much fun.

That sounds better :)

Frankly, I tend to rush through the latter part of nearly all games I complete - so it probably won't be that big a deal for me.

I don't know what's wrong with me, but - for whatever reason - I lose patience and investment in most games at a certain point - and then completing them becomes a strange trial of stubbornness.

Thankfully, there are exceptions. I pretty much loved Kingdom Come from start to finish, even if it's full of flaws :)

BTW, I assume you guys/gals are aware of the excellent mods on Nexus for this, right?

Personally, I absolutely couldn't live without the Fast Travel/Weight mods.

Before I touch that game, I need timers removed mod. Is there any?

They are still there, and they had me worried at the start but I actually never was rushed to anything.

Not quite, but there's a "Kingdom Resolution" mod that effectively nullifies the negative effect of 99% of the timers in the game, if you want it to.

As in, you can instantly resolve all the Kingdom events that you usually have to wait for - or skip time for - so you can focus on the other bits of the game.

But, AFAIK, you can't disable the timers themselves.

I'm sure purple can add something here, but - so far - they've been rather mild and not very stressful, once you realise how much time you have to do stuff.

But I know who I'm talking to - so you can spare me the "that's not good enough" reply ;)

I think that timers are important part of choice&consequence design as it forces you to prioritize, for better or worse outcome. Compared to many games where feelings of urgency are only artificial and often without any consequences this is very fresh design in my opinion.

I have conflicting feelings about the timers.

To me, they go counter to the sensation of "free roaming exploration" that I want to have in games like this - but I do agree they add some spice and immersion to the game.

Overall, though, I would probably have preferred they weren't there.

Also, I'm not very fond of the Kingdom Managment so far, but it's certainly a lot more involved than most games that try to do this kind of thing.

Although Im also very fond of exploration and I like to take my time in games, in this case it works quite well for me. Part of the trick is probably that management part works with time scale of weeks and months while exploration part with mere days. So when you are on adventure, travelling and exploring dungeons, the time pressure is rather light. At least thats how I felt it.

I hated timers in XCOM2 and will hate them here. So please, a mod that removes them. A mod that just disables negative effects is okay, but I just don't want to see any of that atrocity. I want to explore something for years, not minutes - it's supposed to be a game, not bus/train chaser simulator. Hopefully.

Yeah, it's not that bad.

I think my issue is that I have to physically travel back to resolve stuff - when what I really want to do is explore and do the usual CRPG stuff.

I would have done it differently, with the managment being a separate aspect that you didn't necessarily have to be physically present for.

Also, I probably would have done more stuff with physically representing the changes you're making to the Kingdom - but you can't have it all, I guess ;)

"Timers" are pretty generous in this game, so you don't actually have to rush exploring or finish quest as much as you think you need to. In saying that, timer was always in back of my mind, which did prevent me exploring freely in a fear the "hidden" timer will expire at the worst time.

But it is tied to lots of C&C stuff, so I can understand why Owlcat implemented it. For one, you guys should have noticed by now some companions won't be available until much later in chapter 1 (or even be locked out for entire chapter 1) depending on how quickly you went after your rival or discover the Temple of Elks.

I understand the importance of timers to a game, really I do. But the way my mind works … its just adds a distraction I prefer to not have in a game. I find myself always checking my time, looking at how many days I have left, worrying about how long it will take to explore.

It starts to were away little by little on the fun so I end up just moving faster, taking short cuts, and not exploring in the leisurely way I like. I find I am focusing more on the main quest and anything time to get it done so my mind isn't fretting over it.

I know the timers are not bad but changing how one's mind works when it comes to feeling like you need to get something done on time, regardless of how long you have, is more a psychological thing and not easily rectified … although I am trying my best to ignore them.

My loading times, at least for the first 3 chapters, haven't been too bad. But then I am used to 30-60 second load times for FO4 and Skyrim due to my heavy mods and graphic presets. So these don't seem that bad in comparison.

I don't think that there will ever be a mod to "disable" the timers. Time is an important concept in the game which is interwoven in quests and kingdom management. You can't simple disable it or nullify the effects.
For example there are quests where you just get other results when you're solving them quickly. So you need to to touch quest scripts.

I'm with Darth here that I'm somehow torn. I like the additional challenge and immersion but don't like to feel rushed. However in my current playthrough I actually explored everything. It was enough time by far.
I'll have a more grounded opinion after my second run. In my first I had some bugs with kingdom management in chapter 2 which quite screwed my kingdom and made my kingdom really week. So I had to switch to indestructable kingdom in chapter 6.

It's quite brave for a studio like Owlcat to be innovative with a feature like that. As said I'm not sure that timers were the right choice, but being innovative was the right choice.
Together with Larian and CDProjekt (and perhaps Warhorse) they could enhance the CRPG genre as a whole.

That's hardly innovative.
In fact it smells to me like daily reward and doomsday designs on phones. Don't login for a day or let some timer expire and a "very important" thing is gone.

Sorry but I hate it equally as questgivers/questtargets inaccessible while spending time in Narnia unless it's day or night in some games.

I was very doubtful about Kingmaker concept since beginning. In my RPG Im not interested in dating simulator elements, RTS elements, build/construction elements. All these things are done by other games better and in RPG Im interested in something else. That is also the reason I did not back this game and did not have it on my radar really. Im not even sure what made me buy and try the game about week after release. But I was honestly surprised how things actually work in this game and I became really thrilled about it. Im not trying to convince anybody, but this was my experience.

No, that's another concept. The timers in P:K aren't linked to real time, but to ingame time.

The innovation is not in the timers itself but in the general concept that ingame time affects the whole game at quite a large scale. I have not seen that in a CRPG before.