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-   -   Pillars of Eternity II - Going Turn Based January 24th (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41857)

TomRon January 28th, 2019 00:56
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleblob (Post 1061553494)
What a load of bs :)
Actually, if you look at it the way Chien does, that RTwP is "supposed" to be played with minimal or no pausing, then that statement makes sense. I just don't agree with that sentiment, for RTwP to be done right in my opinion you should HAVE to pause quite frequently in tougher battles. No pausing is fine for trashmobs…

sakichop January 28th, 2019 01:21
I don’t know about POE2 but I couldn’t even imagine trying to play POE without pausing on higher difficulties. They terrible path finding alone is good for a number of pause per encounter even when using shift to set waypoints.

Anyway, as for the TB addition i think it makes sense to do it now. The main game and dlc are already released so no one can complain about misplaced resources. Also it will keep the game relevant for a little longer and hopefully generate a little sales boost.

I’m also encourage by the fact that you cant switch back and forth. That gives me hope they will take the time to properly balance the game for TB. I don’t believe you cant properly implement TB and RTWP simultaneously to switch on the fly. Too many compromises would hurt both systems.

Drithius January 28th, 2019 02:21
The pathfinding in Deadfire doesn't seem as attrocious as it was in the prequel. Combined with AI that you can tweak fairly well to have your partly be self-sufficient, pausing isn't *that* necessary - at least not on difficulties below PotD.

You especially don't need pausing with the stop-motion lag of AoE blunderbusses which seems to have only gotten worse with the latest patch.

TomRon January 28th, 2019 09:08
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drithius (Post 1061553509)
The pathfinding in Deadfire doesn't seem as attrocious as it was in the prequel. Combined with AI that you can tweak fairly well to have your partly be self-sufficient, pausing isn't *that* necessary - at least not on difficulties below PotD.

You especially don't need pausing with the stop-motion lag of AoE blunderbusses which seems to have only gotten worse with the latest patch.
Agreed, if you set up you companion AI's properly you can get by with minimal pausing. I was referring to if you want to control everything yourself.

Thrasher January 28th, 2019 12:07
I certainly welcome the option to play turned based, as it’s my favorite style for isometric. But I doubt I will replay it again.

ChienAboyeur January 28th, 2019 13:59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakichop (Post 1061553503)
I don’t know about POE2 but I couldn’t even imagine trying to play POE without pausing on higher difficulties. They terrible path finding alone is good for a number of pause per encounter even when using shift to set waypoints.
Pointless. Fluidity comes from practise. It is like telling FTL must be played from the start on hard, no pause. Playing on normal, no pause is quickly achieved but it takes time to move to hard, no pause.

Devs failed to ensure any kind of stability to their RTwP system as they kept moving to satisfy UgoIgo players. There was no point spending time learning how to increase fluidity since the system was not meant to endure.

Players who spent time on that would be faced with the current situation: a product going UgoIgo. Time that could have been wasted better.

ChienAboyeur January 28th, 2019 14:06
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleblob (Post 1061553494)
What a load of bs :)
Impressive ability to insulate from events.

The story of the PoE series is a testimony to the lack of audience for RTwP products.
Devs kept caving in to UgoIgo players demand so to reach the current situation: it is made UgoIgo.

Apart from that, sure, there is a solid demand for RTwP and improvements toward it were kept numerous as patches kept being released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomRon (Post 1061553497)
Actually, if you look at it the way Chien does, that RTwP is "supposed" to be played with minimal or no pausing, then that statement makes sense. I just don't agree with that sentiment, for RTwP to be done right in my opinion you should HAVE to pause quite frequently in tougher battles. No pausing is fine for trashmobs…
Except that tougher battles start with any encounter.

Never been about a sparse use of pause reserved to tougher battles, it has always been about the slideshow occurring when players can not face any type of encounters without pausing to place any kind of inputs.

That is what led to the current situation. If players had had the skillset to refrain themselves from pausing every single second any kind of encounter, today, players will discuss ways to improve the RTwP side of things, not welcoming the release of a UgoIgo mode.

Andrew23 January 28th, 2019 17:47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur (Post 1061553541)
Impressive ability to insulate from events.

The story of the PoE series is a testimony to the lack of audience for RTwP products.
Devs kept caving in to UgoIgo players demand so to reach the current situation: it is made UgoIgo.

Apart from that, sure, there is a solid demand for RTwP and improvements toward it were kept numerous as patches kept being released.


Except that tougher battles start with any encounter.

Never been about a sparse use of pause reserved to tougher battles, it has always been about the slideshow occurring when players can not face any type of encounters without pausing to place any kind of inputs.

That is what led to the current situation. If players had had the skillset to refrain themselves from pausing every single second any kind of encounter, today, players will discuss ways to improve the RTwP side of things, not welcoming the release of a UgoIgo mode.
Somehow I get feeling that you think that RTwP is supposed to be played in Real Time with not so much pause. And that if you pause too often it is design flaw. And that developers should develop system where pause is not necessary rather then the other way. Because if you pause too often its actually TB? Is that it? Im asking as Im not sure if I understand you well.

ChienAboyeur January 28th, 2019 19:24
RTwP is that: RTwP. It is not PwRT.

It is not usually a design flaw. Playing RTwP takes skills that players are unwilling to acquire.

No matter how good the design is, when player are unwilling to play it a certain way, all designs fail.

PoE is a story of failure as devs tried to get players unwilling to play RTwP. And the conclusion happened: they made it UgoIgo because players did not want to play RTwP.

Kordanor January 28th, 2019 19:46
I also can't possibly disagree more.
I don't see where RTwP requires these "skills". It only requires more skills if you play RT without pause.

I also disagree that PoE is a failure because of RTwP. No matter how much I dislike RTwP, Pillars probably wouldn't exist without Baldurs Gate which introduced RTwP to such a big cRPG audience.

However that audience is maybe not as "hardcore" as, let's say the "gold box" audience. And it might not be a niche which carried over to todays CRPG hardcore players.

Baldurs Gate back then was maybe more of what Mass Effect is today. Real Time made is accessible to casual players back then.

In addition you can see the success of Divinity:OS and it only makes sense to check out how many players you left behind / how exclusive the RTwP and TB audiences are.


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