Dark Souls - Combat?
 

Finally took the time to properly configure the M+KB mod so I can give the game a fair shake. Put a good 5 hours into it. Not a bad game but I have to say not a particularly good one? With a game this focused on combat and supposedly the spiritual successor to Severance BOD I have to say that's simply not the case. It is not even close to the strategic melee system of Severance. I only have two swings? Its limitations are horribly apparent in close combat when I'm stupidly hitting walls with wild swings I have not choice but to make since there is no direction swing control like Severance. Also the hit box is enormous and the combat effectiveness seems random or perhaps is actually based party on RND? Rarely is there a visual indication of HOW I'm breaking an enemy's shield guard it just "happens" sometimes and sometimes not. I'll still play it and see how progression goes since I'm enjoying the premise and progression system and dying I've embraced as an interesting game mechanic. But I'm also fairly underwhelmed with the combat system? Am I alone in this?

I've never seen anything about Dark Souls being a spiritual successor to Severance. Where did you hear that?

Darks Souls is the successor to Demons Souls, and I'd be suprised if anyone in From Software was familiar with a 17+ year-old PC-only title like Severance.

Everybody and his cousin compares the two. Admittedly not the developer but its a very common comparison.

Dark souls is the direct successor to demon souls which is usually considered the spiritual successor to kingsfield.

Shields have stability ratings. Different shield will have different ratings thus the reason different shields will break at different times. Just as different armor has different poise ratings that will result in staggering and stuns when poise is broken.

You will hit walls in narrow passages if you have either a big weapon or a small weapon with a wide swing. switch to a thrusting weapon when in confined spaces. Many weapons will have trust as well as swing move sets so you don't have to change weapons just use thrust attack. you shouldn't be swinging wildly either you'll run out of stamina. Pick your spots and use short bursts.

Not sure what you mean by only having 2 swings? All weapons have movesets with multiple kinds of swings. Stamina will dictate how many swings you have until you tire and will need to restore your stamina. Logically larger weapons take more stamina and can be swung in succession less times than small weapons.

Amor will also affect stamina usage. Also will effect movement and roll speed along with poise rating.

The combat is actually pretty complex and strategic. movesets, poise, roll speed, I frames, stamina management, positioning, parry & riposte, stealth backstabs, etc.

A different weapon and armor choice can totally change how combat plays. for instance ornstien and smough handed my ass to me for hours trying a minimal armor bandit dagger approach. when I switched to a 2 hander, great shield and heavy armor and turtled them I beat them first attempt. Also pay attention to elemental protection armor offers as have the right protection can also swing the fight in your favor.

I'm a huge dark souls fan as is probably well known here but it took me several attempts and I had to finally stick it out for about 15 hours in one playthrough until I started to get the hang of things and see how all the parts fit together. There's a deep combat system there if you want to dig in to all the stats and figure it out.

Weird, if that was the case I'd think I would have seen it a little more often.

There might be a few overzealous Severance fans who tried to attach that label, but I don't think it fits at all.

I loved Dark Souls combat. For me at the time, it was a refinement of the perspective and style from what I'd experienced in Gothic-Gothic II but with the additional challenge of learning bosses in a darker, more foreboding world.

There were great posters celebrating the combat here when the game came out.
Saki was probably a bit later on the scene but posts well on the topic. Earlier posters who described it well include JonNik, DeepO, SpoonFuLL, TheMadGamer, SirJames. Ovenall's story is also an interesting one.

I posted at length my experiences and impressions with the first two games.
DS 1: https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15214
DS 2: https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26999

Glad you guys are enamored. I think they should have given it the title "Dark Souls: trapped in a corner by Taurus and other cheap deaths". Tactics are nearly impossible when there is no room to move. Fighting a boss's crotch what a tactic!

Well the Taurus demon is one of the easiest bosses in the game. Use your environment. Hint: drop attack or throw black fire bombs from above. He telegraphs his moves pretty easy. I found a fast character was best for him but he’s beatable with any build i assume.

This is a game you have to take time to learn. If you’re not willing or interested in taking that time that’s fine. There’s plenty of room on that bridge to create distance. Unless you are wearing heavy armor. You want to keep your encumbrance under 30%.

Anyway, i wont try to convince you. You can play the game and decide yourself or not. No harm in that. Even though i love the series I understand their not for everyone.

My point wasn't that he's a difficult boss. I'm just surprised the designers make the area so constrained. A lot of the areas in the game are too small for mobility. Fighting would be more strategic with more open areas. At any rate I did drop on him. He surprised me the first time jumping up on the tower though. That was unexpected.

I misunderstood then.

If you think that’s a cramped area your in for some bad suprises. There’s no doubt that small areas are used to increase difficulty for some bosses and other encounters.

I didn’t mind the design decision though as there’s also plenty of large areas you’ll find. Seems its a good mix imo.

Funnily enough, on my first playthrough and my first attempt at him, I took one swing at him and he fell off the bridge. I couldn't stop laughing. :biggrin:

Dark Souls' world building and atmosphere are absolutely top notch. The combat takes a bit of getting used (and even then, I basically turtled my way through most things), but once you get the hang of it it can be quite rewarding… I am not sure how many attempts I needed for S&O or for the Stray Demon, but man, once they went down it felt good.

I remember my first time with the taurus demon, didnt even hit him, got too scared and started running till he one hit killed me haha :biggrin: ; those were great times, going into the game blind without reading any stuff.

Atmosphere is indeed top notch, definitely in top 3 for me, and add the great lore and marvelous map design and you got a fantastic world.

I woke up with the urge to play this &$@*% game. So that’s how it’s going to be eh?

Yes some areas in DS1 are small which sometimes make the fight harder. If you find this hard now, leave it, explore elsewhere, level-up or upgrade your gear and return back later.

For DS1, it might be worth consulting a guide not to cheat but at least get a good item/weapon early on the game to make life easier (e.g. shooting tail of dragon gives you an excellent sword early on that can be handled with relatively moderate stats).

It might be too late now, but I would have recommended playing DS2 or Demon Souls as a start as they have more comfortable space and routes to progress, with easier bosses.

And so it begins….:biggrin:

I gather “go to bed pissed and wake up determined” is common for Dark Souls

Abandoned my Knight for a fast moving Bandit and ended up surpassing my Knight 12+ levels earlier. I really like the Undead Parish enemies. One parried me last night which scared me to death and left me on life support. I was not expecting my tricks to be used against me! I’m getting a lot of Titanite Shard drops so I added 2 levels to my battle axe keeping a bunch of shards for later. Or should I spend them? I’m going strength I think. I do have the heal miracle which is a HUGE benefit. But otherwise I plan to stick to melee.

I played as bandit in many playthroughs and like the battle axe. I think it is worth using the titante shards to upgrade your axe up to the maximum allowed with these shards. I think that you will need that. Later you will be able to infuse it with fire/lightening/poision .. etc as necessary (but be careful as you might lose strength/dexterity buffs of your weapon with infusions).

I would also recommend leveling up dexterity to enable you to use bows - extremely useful and can be very powerful early on and later.

I would also keep an eye on poise, as it can be a decider in many battles to avoid precious time wasted when being hit-staggered. I would also suggest to keep your equipment load to 50% or lower for fast movement and lower expense of stamina.

Damn, you guys are making me want to give DS another shot.

Yes and it is also good for your hand muscles to recover (otherwise you will die more often with continuous play).

I do have Astora’s Sword which I grabbed doing a suicide run to the Undead Drake but it was a cheesy move so I don’t plan on using it. One thing I noticed when I killed the Berenike Knight is that his massive shield has zero effect if he isn’t actively blocking? I was working my way behind him and clearly hit his shield a few times but did direct damage. So shields are a very binary thing in terms of protection? They are on or off depending on actively blocking and cosmetic otherwise? His shield is so huge it became really apparent.

Yes if the enemy is not actively blocking, then you can do full damage of your weapon (depending on your enemy's stats and resistances) even if the shield covers whole part of their bodies.

Likewise with you, if your shield is not actively held you will receive full damage (even if it was a great shield covering most of your body). With shields also observe their physical damage absorption stat - you need a shield with 100, decent stability and lightweight were possible. Some shields have special properties (e.g. enhance resistances, health/magic regeneration .. etc.) so be on the look out for these.

Gargoyles. I can take 1 of them but I can't survive the 2nd's fire attack. I need better fire resistance - I'm getting one shot. I have the Dragon Crest shield which has nice resistance and I've upped my Vitality a few notches since my last attempt but DAMN. I think my Bandit Armor which is nice and light is a liability for this fight.

I can't remember exactly how but you can summon Solaire of Astoria or Knight Lautrec to help you in the Gargoyle fight. It will give you a much needed break during the fight when the gargoyles focus on a summon instead.

Speed is essential in that fight, find the best balance between fire resistance and weight or you could even try going naked. I always play a speed build and try to stay under 30% encumbrance but obviously you don’t need to. Don’t bother trying to block fire try to evade it. IIRC the fire will get blocked by the peak of the roof if you run to the other side also i think thier weak to lightning so use pine resin.

Killing the first one before the second one arrives is also key or at least with in a few swipes. If all else fails i believe there’s an NPC you can summon just outside of the fight or summon another actual player. You need to be human to summon. You should be human for all boss fights anyway as it increases your HP.

I'm still Hallow. I'll try a few more times. I think killing the first 2H and then switching to shield for fire resistance might work. But yes I have to take out the first one fast. Sometimes he is easy other times he get into a pattern I can't easily flank. I'll try some humanity as a last resort because its a perm consumable.

Perseverance. Pig headed determination really. Lots of stats boosting for damage and fire protection and not an inconsiderable amount of luck mixed with a dose of "git gud". The Bell Gargoyles defeated by my lowly hallow. This may have been easy for some players but it was definitely *not* for this player. I'm still a bit shaky at the moment but Praise the sun damnit!

https://i.imgur.com/9kFcsZX.jpg

\[T]/

Good job on the Gargoyles!

Don't feel bad about using Astoras sword. It's not very good, anyway. Weapons with more than one damage type have to roll against more than one armor type so pure physical damage tends to be better. The good thing about that sword is it's a Divine weapon so the skeletons in the catacombs won't get up again after you kill them with it. Decent weapon for a Faith build but most clerics prefer blunt weapons.

As you continue the journey, remember that you can only be invaded while human. This is when a glowing red guy appears and tries to kill you. These are usually human, but they can also be NPCs which appear when you walk through certain areas who drop special weapons and are worth large amounts of souls.

Also remember that most monsters loot table is the items they're using. One weapon I hoped to get around the gargoyles is the Balder sword. It's just a plain straight sword but its very light and easy to use with good Dex scaling. It's a good weapon for a sorcerer with a magic enchant. It has a very low chance to drop off a Balder Knight who's using it, but you can raise your item find by having 10+ humanity by farming humanity off of rats. Also, the Covetous Serpent rings raise item find, too, but none of the item find items stack with each-other.

Yes I hated adding the extra 2 levels into faith to get just a marginal increase in damage but I really like the thrust damage in tight quarters vs the wild swing of the axe. Seems to go better with my medium armor build. I am trying to decide whether to get my knight up another ~5 levels to get his roll speed to where my Bandit is. The Bandit has all Balder armor except the chain leggings I bought. I’d like the opportunity to try a faster knight with my +5 axe. But my bandit build is certainly working. I went into the forest area and fought multiple crystal heavies whatever they are and the big armored guy lying on the ground with that obnoxious “binding/slow” spell. The big guy with the massive club at the tower base took me down though - he has a workable pattern but he hits like a monster so no mistakes allowed. Regarding items/drops I’m assuming this game will give me “enough” staying hallow or is that a bad assumption?

I assume the big guy you’re talking about is Havel. You want to kill him ASAP, his drop is game changing.

He’s easily dispatched with parry and riposte or dodge his heavy attack and back stab. Whenever i start a new play through i run straight to him and kill him at level 1 for his drop.

Perfecting parry and riposte can make many enemies trivial.

Havel is a must kill indeed; parish area is really nice and enjoyable for some souls farming, because after this some crap areas (imo) come next. Every time i replayed these games, i rolled a turtoise dude :biggrin:; as a sword i used a claymore for most of the time, you can find one in the parish area, under the red dragon from the bridge, there is a bonfire and the sword is somewhere there.

“Perfect Parrying” dunno for me. One mistake and I’m toast. Easy enough to test given how close the bonfire is though. Surely I’m relegated to dodging and biding my time. He’s certainly on my list now.

Yeah Havel is a massive tank. I can parry / riposte for a while and eventually screw up. Looks like I'd have to hit him at roughly 30 times to take him down at this rate using power attack (1H) with parry. I'll try 2H with dodging. If I could get the bastard in a more open area!

Havel is down. I ended up using a shield and just being careful to drop my guard if I got hit to recover stamina fast before he swings again. Took a while but it worked. More importantly that freaking ring! I had enough speed to get a bonus kill - the Black Knight. He scares the crap out of me but I can out circle him now and whittle him down. That ring is a game changer! I can't use his sword though its not in the cards with my garbage dexterity. But the kill was great!

https://i.imgur.com/N73qQgQ.jpg

Nicely done, that ring is the best item in the game imo. That’s why i always get it first.

I love how many different ways thier are to approach enemies depending on armor, weapons and encumbrance.

I always start as deprived and then build a thief type. Bandit dagger and buckler. I sneak through the game parrying and backstabbing as much as possible. FYI, you can parry black knights surprisingly easily.

O&S are the only bosses I couldn’t beat with the bandit dagger, came mighty close many times but it wasn’t to be. Maybe, someday.

I just did a bunch of the Catacombs that place is fantastic so far. One thing that is hilarious is that even though I can't really wield the Black Knight Sword in two handed mode power swing it sends people flying. So hilarious. I'm sure I'm in for lots more pain but the game is undeniably great.

Do you find those things easier on K+M or gamepad? Or is there no significant difference? I'm curious because I remember you saying you've played through DS with both.

You hit the jackpot with that sword! It was one of my favourite weapons in Dark Souls but it wasn't quite as good in Dark Souls 2, though I forget why. I suggest leveling your DEX up to the minimum required to use it properly asap. The downside is it requires Twinkling Titanite to upgrade so it might take a while. Keep an eye out for crystal lizards and kill them before they vanish! Also, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet but damage scaling from stats really slows down after 40 so any more than 40 STR is a bit of a waste.

I’d say its about the same, its just a button or key press. I’d say the main difference is camera turn speed and accuracy is better on K&M which isn’t hugely important but can still help.

I’d say use whatever input device your most comfortable with. I use M&K in my computer room but use a controller if i stream it to the living room or bedroom.