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-   -   Phoenix Point - Epic Games Store Announcement (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42320)

Silver March 12th, 2019 20:48
Phoenix Point - Epic Games Store Announcement
 
Phoenix Point will be exclusive to the Epic Games Store.

Quote:
loading…
More information.

domein March 12th, 2019 21:13
I have not seen so many down-votes for some time

Kylex March 12th, 2019 21:14
My first of 100+ crowdfunding projects I want and requested a refund.
Even for failed projects I never wanted a refund - for me this exclusive deal is worse than a failed project.

Lolozaur March 12th, 2019 21:17
Another free game.

Couchpotato March 12th, 2019 21:37
Figures indies love the Epic Store because of the profit split & exclusive cash payment.
Quote:
This is actually digusting because this is a fully invested Fig crowd-funded game where the game literally would not exist without people wanting the Steam and GoG keys.
You'll still get them but a year after release.:(

Kylex March 12th, 2019 21:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061560167)
You'll still get them but a year after release.:(
No - as far as I've read backers will never get other than Epic keys.
You can buy the game on Steam or GOG 1 year after release - but as a backer you won't get a key for this stores.

Couchpotato March 12th, 2019 21:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylex (Post 1061560168)
No - as far as I've read backers will never get other than Epic keys.
You can buy the game on Steam or GOG 1 year after release - but as a backer you won't get a key for this stores.
Read again please as I said a year after the Epic release.:)

As the developer has to honor the backer pledge if they promised you the keys. This would be considered bait and switch if they do not give Steam & GOG keys eventually.

Now if it's legally binding backers might have a legal case as this is a crowdfunded game. It's not comparable to Metro Exodus as they only offered early Steam pre-orders.

fatknacker50 March 12th, 2019 21:52
What a crock of shit Julian, so disappointing.

forgottenlor March 12th, 2019 22:00
From the video it is VERY clear Julian knows the dissatisfaction this announcement will cause. Free DLCs for a year and up front refunds address this. The Epic store must be giving developers significant funds up front for them to be willing to go with a smaller customer base and losses from such concessions.

Couchpotato March 12th, 2019 22:00
Yeah he gave the usual PR excuses again.
Quote:
Gollop acknowledges that not everyone will be happy with the one-year exclusive, as they may have had "the expectation of playing it on a specific platform" when they backed it—understandably, since the first two questions in the Fig campaign FAQ still state explicitly that Phoenix Point will be on Steam and GOG.

That might still be technically true, since the Epic Store exclusivity is only for a year, but I suspect that not everyone will be satisfied with that interpretation."So if for any reason you are not happy with this change, we will be very happy to offer a full refund, and I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you," he says.

As a bonus for early supporters who opt to stick with it, anyone who backed the Phoenix Point crowdfunding campaign or preordered it prior to today will get all paid DLC released during the game's first year for free. And for those with unresolved questions or uncertainties, an AMA will take place on the Phoenix Point subreddit tomorrow—that's March 13—at 12 pm PT/3 pm ET.
Link -https://www.pcgamer.com/xcom-like-ph…-for-one-year/

Just get a refund and hurt his bottom line. As 10,000 refunds will cost a lot of money.

Stingray March 12th, 2019 22:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061560169)
Read again please as I said a year after the Epic release.:)

As the developer has to honor the backer pledge if they promised you the keys. This would be considered bait and switch if they do not give Steam & GOG keys eventually.

Now if it's legally binding backers might have a legal case as this is a crowdfunded game. It's not comparable to Metro Exodus as they only offered early Steam pre-orders.
Yep, the FAQ says that original backers will receive an Epic key at release, and a Steam or GOG key after the 1 year exclusivity period is done. If that's not good enough, you can request a refund.

henriquejr March 12th, 2019 22:20
Wow, I didn't expect that. I'm kinda surprised here and a bit disappointed too. A lot of people on Youtube saying they've asked for refunding:

Quote:
Refund time. First you drop Linux support, now this. I had faith in this project, but nope. Sorry I'm out.
Quote:
I backed for Phoenix Point because GOG was announced as launching platform. This recent Epic Store deal really is a game changer - but not for the better. I'll go for a refund (…)
Quote:
Hope they paid you enough to tarnish your reputation with hardcore fans.
And the rage goes on and on and on… How did Snapshot Games not anticipate all that? As someone commented 'So you saw other companies doing this and their fan base turns on them and thought "it wasn't a good idea for them, but maybe it's a good idea for us." '

Kylex March 12th, 2019 22:27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061560169)
Read again please as I said a year after the Epic release.:)
Yeah you're right - it's hidden in their FAQ, last question.

From their initial statement:
Quote:
We recognize that some of you may have backed or pre-ordered Phoenix Point with an expectation of the platform you’d be able to play it on, and that this update changes that.
They should't have stated it this way.

Anyway I'm happy with requesting a refund.

Couchpotato March 12th, 2019 22:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by henriquejr (Post 1061560174)
And the rage goes on and on and on… How did Snapshot Games not anticipate all that? As someone commented 'So you saw other companies doing this and their fan base turns on them and thought "it wasn't a good idea for them, but maybe it's a good idea for us." '
Somebody asked that question on reddit.

Spoiler – Reddit Replies

They have to figure the cancellations and bad press wont affect sales.

six March 12th, 2019 23:04
At least Metro did honor pre orders, this is just pissing on all their supporters.
Killed all my interest in the game and I don't even hate epic like so many others do, I'd just like to avoid it like I avoid steam.

henriquejr March 12th, 2019 23:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061560176)
Somebody asked that question on reddit.

Spoiler – Reddit Replies

They have to figure the cancellations and bad press wont affect sales.
From the text you just quoted:

"This one hurts more than Metro for me…cannot believe this bullshit." -> my feelings too :(

I just don't know what to do now, I'm on the verge of asking for a refund (damn, I backed the game very early, whithin the 30 days of the original FIG campaign - "Congratulations!", they said, "You are officially the 581st backer of Phoenix Point by Snapshot Games."). Or perhaps I should wait for a few more days, maybe expecting another change, IDK. What's the deadline for refunding?

Mr. Gollop is advised to don his Adamantine Full Plate tomorrow when on the AMA. People will be foaming at their mouths :) Please @Silver, don't forget to post here a newslink with the AMA questions/answers.

Capt. Huggy Face March 12th, 2019 23:20
It seems to me there are just too many games out there these days to limit your sales like this. I hope he enjoys his extra 10%, or whatever it is. I don't have the ability to look at real numbers, of course, but my gut feeling is a move like this just isn't worth it, especially if you're an indy just starting out. You need as many people to see your game as possible.

Arkadia7 March 12th, 2019 23:23
Epic is like a trap, in that it appeals to the greed of developers. But they don't think about that the greed may actually end up costing them profits in the end.

JDR13 March 12th, 2019 23:28
It's really not that big of a deal, but as usual, people are going to make it into something more.

There's nothing wrong with Epic. I'm currently using it to play Metro Exodus, and it launches faster than Steam and is just as hassle-free. People might as well get it now because it isn't going anywhere.

Pladio March 12th, 2019 23:32
Well, I was excited for this, but I don't like exclusivity deals so less likely to purchase unless it's very cheap.

Kordanor March 12th, 2019 23:43
So…not buying till it releases on steam.

muhabor March 12th, 2019 23:54
I've backed the game, not the platform. I'm happy for free DLCs.

ChatMiauleur March 12th, 2019 23:56
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061560187)
It's really not that big of a deal, but as usual, people are going to make it into something more.

There's nothing wrong with Epic. I'm currently using it to play Metro Exodus, and it launches faster than Steam and is just as hassle-free. People might as well get it now because it isn't going anywhere.
Not the problem.

I do not enjoy having that many 'shops' on my PC, all of them trying to launch with Windows, or install stuff when you are not looking, changing the rules on their own, updating this or this or not. You get Steam, GOG, Origins, the ones for Ubisoft and Bethesda and now Epic, without forgetting the huge failure of the Windows Marketplace which is running in the background.. Good for you if you do not mind.

Metro will be on Steam, fully patched, and maybe at a price in a few months, and this one will be the same.

It is not as if we were out of stock of games to play.

Couchpotato March 13th, 2019 00:03
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061560187)
It's really not that big of a deal, but as usual, people are going to make it into something more.
Nah I'll get it another way were I wont have to use the Epic Store.

This time I wont feel regret either so refund submitted.:ahoy:

Ripper March 13th, 2019 00:06
They must pay a dreadful price for their lack of fealty. All hail Valve.

Couchpotato March 13th, 2019 00:11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061560200)
They must pay a dreadful price for their lack of fealty. All hail Valve.
Nope maybe if developers learn not to use bait and switch on crowdfunded games. Now if he communicated on fig it would be an Epic exclusive I would have no problem.

Look at Rebel Galaxy Outlaw no Steam or GOG releases announced just the Epic store. They even gave a lengthy reasonable update why they chose Epic over Steam and GOG.

Let that sink in no bait and switch as Epic was the target not other platforms first. My problem is not the Epic store just dishonest developers, and publishers with PR excuses.

JDR13 March 13th, 2019 00:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur (Post 1061560197)
Not the problem.

I do not enjoy having that many 'shops' on my PC, all of them trying to launch with Windows, or install stuff when you are not looking, changing the rules on their own, updating this or this or not. You get Steam, GOG, Origins, the ones for Ubisoft and Bethesda and now Epic, without forgetting the huge failure of the Windows Marketplace which is running in the background.. Good for you if you do not mind.

Metro will be on Steam, fully patched, and maybe at a price in a few months, and this one will be the same.
Yes, it's a small inconvenience. My point is that that's all it is. Epic doesn't do anything to your system that Steam doesn't already do.

And no, Metro Exodus will not be on Steam in a few months and neither will any other game that's part of the exclusivity agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur (Post 1061560197)
It is not as if we were out of stock of games to play.
Cool, but most people don't want to wait another year to play something they've already been waiting for. You go ahead and wait though. That'll show em! ;)

Ripper March 13th, 2019 00:21
I think the fact they're offering full refunds to anyone unhappy pretty much covers any charge of a bait and switch.

Couchpotato March 13th, 2019 00:32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061560208)
I think the fact they're offering full refunds to anyone unhappy pretty much covers any charge of a bait and switch.
Nope it's still bait and switch no excuses please. This isn't kindergarten.:biggrin:

henriquejr March 13th, 2019 00:35
Rag'n'Bone Man - Human (Official Video)

loading…


"He's only human, after all, don't put your blame on him…" :P

ChatMiauleur March 13th, 2019 00:37
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061560206)
Yes, it's a small inconvenience. My point is that that's all it is. Epic doesn't do anything to your system that Steam doesn't already do.

And no, Metro Exodus will not be on Steam in a few months and neither will any other game that's part of the exclusivity agreement.

Cool, but most people don't want to wait another year to play something they've already been waiting for. You go ahead and wait though. That'll show em! ;)
I have no intention of showing anything to anyone. I am in no war with no one. It is just than I do not want to have ten shops on my PC. I did not buy Fallout 76, I did not buy Anthem, I will not buy those 2 and I still have enough game choice.
You are maybe right about those 2 remaining exclusives and in the end who cares? I do not miss Fallout 76 and Anthem either.

henriquejr March 13th, 2019 00:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur (Post 1061560218)
I am in no war with no one. It is just than I do not want to have ten shops on my PC.
How about ten cent? :D

Yeah, I know, bad joke, bad joke… :P :P :P

JDR13 March 13th, 2019 00:46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur (Post 1061560218)
You are maybe right about those 2 remaining exclusives and in the end who cares? I do not miss Fallout 76 and Anthem either.
I'm sure quite a few people care. There are more exclusives than just those 2 games, and they will only add to that.

Stingray March 13th, 2019 01:00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Huggy Face (Post 1061560185)
It seems to me there are just too many games out there these days to limit your sales like this. I hope he enjoys his extra 10%, or whatever it is. I don't have the ability to look at real numbers, of course, but my gut feeling is a move like this just isn't worth it, especially if you're an indy just starting out. You need as many people to see your game as possible.
Obviously the people making Phoenix Point have run the numbers and decided that this will, in fact, be worth it. And I would have to assume that they're far more likely to be right than you are, due to having much more information that you don't have access to. Such as, for example, knowledge of whatever sweet deal Epic set them up with.

You can still (legally) play this game without Epic's client anyway, you just have to wait a year. Which is about the amount of time you should wait before playing any newly-released game these days anyway. It's not a big deal at all even if you're anti-Epic.

Ripper March 13th, 2019 01:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchpotato (Post 1061560215)
Nope it's still bait and switch no excuses please. This isn't kindergarten.:biggrin:
Kindergarten? Probably a good place to look for someone who thinks this is how a bait and switch works. :p

Carnifex March 13th, 2019 01:24
I'm so glad I didn't back this!! I'll have plenty of time to see what friends and others think of this product before it arrives at great old games or steam.

Couchpotato March 13th, 2019 01:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 1061560229)
Kindergarten? Probably a good place to look for someone who thinks this is how a bait and switch works. :p
Well lets see.:D

1. Backers paid money on FIG for Steam and GOG.
2. Developer announces two years later its an Epic Store Exclusive.
3. Now you can only get a Steam and GOG one year after release.

Bait and Switch!!!!!!

Refunds offered does not change the facts. Anyway I can't convince everyone.:)

Update: So I'm done gave my personal opinion so Au revoir everyone.

Ripper March 13th, 2019 01:36
Except that to be a bait and switch, they'd have needed to deliberately attempt to bait people with promises of Steam, then forcing them to take the Epic Store, before they even knew it existed. And, if you have the offer of full refunds, it ain't much of a scam. More a bait and switch and switch back to having your money again.

I think they took what they thought was the best deal for their company, and went out of their way to try to be fair to their backers.

Stingray March 13th, 2019 01:56
The Fig campaign rewards for the different tiers were just listed as "Digital downloadable edition of Phoenix Point", no particular platform specified. It's only in the FAQ that Steam and GoG are ever even mentioned, eg:
Quote:
Q: Will the game be on Steam?
A: Yes, Phoenix Point will be on Steam and we will provide Steam keys to backers who want to receive their game this way.
Technically, that's all still true, people who want Steam keys will still receive them, it'll just be 1 year after they get their Epic key. I assume because of the 1 year delay, they're offering refunds for people who want them.

Most people backed a game, not a digital distribution platform. Most won't/don't care about this.

SpoonFULL March 13th, 2019 03:18
This is simple for me - I am asking for a refund as I am not getting a DRM free (or GoG) version as promised.


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