Several games already had duos of guys. What's the problem? It's literally like one game in the whole world with two female protagonists. I wouldn't call it a bad decision necessarily. Bad decisions are loot boxes and crap respawning mechanics.

There are degrees of bad.

I have to agree with JDR, this smells like a PC-based decision. The only assuredly "bad" thing about doing something PC for its own sake is that it's not genuine.

So, it all comes down to how you feel about genuine artistry.

Naturally, with the understanding that games almost always compromise in that way.

Is that supposed to make this decision seem less dumb? :)

I don't have a problem with two female protagonists, I have a problem with them taking away choice when this would have been the perfect opportunity to give the player more of it.

It really depends a lot on what you consider genuine. I mean, I get what you're saying. When I watch some Netflix shows, for example, sometimes there are scenes that really scream "yeah, we just shoehorned 'inclusion' here because people like it". However, I don't really find this to be so prevalent in most games.

To me, it looks like most people simply can't stand anything different from what they are used to. Late Bioware games such as DA Inquisition pretty much got a great coherence with their characters (only flawed mechanics) but a lot of people called them SJWs and similar stuff just because they DARED to have a gay character or whatever.

I'm not really saying it is the case of anyone in this thread, but some people are just whiners who can't take it when a game is not obviously catered to all their tastes. I mean, there are literally thousands of games out there, it just seems like a childish complaint sometimes. Some teams are really artistically committed to some concepts and ideas, they are not doing them just because they are "woke" (although, yes, some are sometimes).

That's literally the same complaint when people say that they dislike the fact that there are no female player characters in a game. It's just somewhat CURIOUS to me that in one case the so-called gaming community is pretty ok with one complaint and not the other one (which is actually literally the same complaint).

I agree to some extent.

Most people like what they're familiar with. It's a pretty human characteristic, I would say.

Of course, that's not what I'm about - because I'm special :)

All kidding aside, I don't want what I'm used to - I want what's genuine. I can honestly say that.

What's genuine is incredibly rare - which might be why I want it so much.

Sometimes, people just say what they feel or mean without being all that invested.

It doesn't mean they're being super serious.

That's just one of the many, many challenges we're facing in this new world of never actually being in the same room with the people we're talking to.

Are you going to keep repeating that same argument?

The fact that there's been a lot of games in the past with no female gender choice doesn't make lack of choice here any better.

Choice is always better.

But, looking at the history of gaming and its audience - males more or less exclusively invented and evolved it.

Certainly, I don't remember a hell of a lot of girls being into gaming back in the 70s and 80s :)

As such, there's nothing misogynistic about how it came about. 99 out of 100 women actively AVOIDED gaming to a very large extent.

I appreciate that times have changed - and the mainstream have finally figured out how great games can be.

But things take time, don't they.

I'm not defending the moron minority trying to keep women away from the industry - or having female characters playable.

But, creating, voicing and animating assets are all rather expensive in the modern gaming industry.

So, since the audience has always been primarily male - and I believe that's still very much the case - it's hardly a surprise that games with only one choice would go for the male option.

That's just the pragmatic approach.

Meaning, games with exclusively female characters are either trying to genuinely tell a story where that's required - or they're being irrational and/or disingenuous.

Having not played this game, I can't say what we're dealing with - with certainty.

But let's just say I suspect the game design didn't actually require exclusivity.

So, again, I have to agree with JDR.

I also think the change needs to happen subconsciously for it to be natural.

What we see in games is simply a reflection of society (and a bit of capitalism). Game developers have a background and were raised a certain way. You can't fault them for thinking mostly within those constraints. It's all about education, which in Europe/Belgium is ok, so the rest will follow.

I guess the SJW phenomenon is because for some people the change is too slow.

Because there are more than two genders as any SJW knows. And don't forget furries.

As mighty moderator summed it up in his eloquent speech that anyone of different opinion than his, is a

"…misogynistic worthless piles of crap…"

and gave us his sage advice to

"…Get over yourselves, get a real life, learn something and just STFU about everything with your bigoted bullshit…"

In case you guys don't understand where it leads. All you, spoiled by your freedoms.

I was born in Soviet Union and in the high school they had "re-education" sessions where they told us what is "right to say" and what is "wrong to say". Fun times.

After 18 it was a trip to a labour camp for anti-soviet propaganda. Not a prison or Gulag, just a couple of years of supervised farming, living in barracks and eating for free.

Lucky for me i was conscripted to mighty Soviet Army and there they just beat you senseless if you open your mouth without being asked first.

I think (but not totally) I agree with this view. Certainly many parts of the world - from USA to Middle East there are huge gaps in evolution of society between rural and urban areas. This drives some of the SJW issues and others (imho) are over drive by one group in response to another groups reaction (anyone watch the back and forth between republicans and democrats in usa?). Anyway I haven't played this game yet so I'm not sure i can state if it is or isn't suffering from sjw and I'm not sure i would notice if it were.

i think both sides have become over sensitive - with one side screaming sjw at the slightest imagined situation and the other actually going a bit too far at time because of how the other side responds…. but then again i could be totally off base.

Great perspective. It really is interesting when the only person in the thread who's calling people names and discouraging civil conversation is somehow wearing a "Moderator" label. Fascinating stuff.

The problem is not that they are two women lead characters, which, I agree, it would have made more sense to give a choice of genders, at least for better sales because yea, gaming - especially first person shooters - are still largely male dominated. But that said, ok, let's say they were trying to be different and creative.

Why in the world did they make these characters seem so generic in that they seem to be stereotypes of a video game character who basically could be re-skinned as male and with male voices and it would be hard to tell the difference. Maybe there is a cut scene where it makes a difference but from the clips I have seen - nope.

There was one scene so cringe-worthy where it shows them killing their first Nazi and they are celebrating spilling the guy's brains all over themselves…they are laughing about it. It was disgusting and not entertaining in the least.

Seriously, if this is being "woke" then "wokeness" is pretty damn repellent. In other words, from what I have seen, "wokeness" is like watching a self-righteous preacher/evangelist standing on a raised platform, and hammering others for their supposed sins when in secret they have plenty of their own dirt they are engaging in like a Jimmy Swaggert type.

The words, "Physician, heal thyself" come to mind when it comes to the "woke crowd"…at least from what I have seen so far. Not impressed, to say the least.

Here is a typical review we are seeing around this turkey. Some choice quotes --

"A nightmare to play solo, can only be played as co-op game - misleading advertising on steam store"

"Atrocious writing, story and characters, even if played co-op there are other numerous problems"

"The awful ammo versus armor system, level gated content, endless respawning enemies" "One of the worst games the reviewer has played this year"

Enjoy…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzLj5o8O130

sounds truly awful

im dyin' over here! :lol:

That would take to play games.

One too many, by all evidences.

The same drive as in UgoIgo products: it must be UgoIgo or players are unsettled. The product exists and its only existence is already an abomination.

As it stands, though, an Uncharted DLC, also have a female duo as lead cast.

And there is revealed one main cause of the collapse of the soviet empire: it offered for free re education sessions whereas others have the brilliant idea of getting people to buy them, hiding their agenda in video products. People are business shrewd, or not.