Baldur's Gate 3 - Early Access Preview @ Gameffine
 

Gameffine checked out Baldur's Gate 3:

More information.

@yemeth, I read between the lines that you didn't like the game? I feel you were too careful in your review. Possibly understandably to avoid the outrage from fans from either side. Yet, a review is supposed to be a review. If you don't like it, it's a valid opinion.

Right, it's called BG3, but how can you make a sequel to a story that was finished and wrapped up?

@yemeth 100% agree two of those groups ruined the game. Though you forgot one group the Tabletop D&D purists. Which in my opinion are the worst of the bunch.
Also can't agree with you on this part. I'm afraid we can't be friends anymore.:p

I don't fit into either of those three groups but that happens when you try to pigeon-hole people into certain areas, although I understand and accept doing so is useful and I do that myself at times.

Also disagree that RTwP is a relic of the past - if anything is a relic it is TB. Nothing was proven by the TB mods in PK or POE. I wouldn't have sunk 400 hours into PK or 200 into POE if they had only been TB. All it proved is that some people still like TB combat - it doesn't prove TB is better, or worse, just that people like different things.

Just because TB is table top style, because its the simplest to implement, doesn't mean a computer game has to follow that same style. That sounds like a Tabletop purist talking. I played AD&D through highschool and college but could care less if a computer game based on an AD&D setting tries to stick to the same format "just because" that is how it was done on pen and paper.

I used to play TB growing up but its a time sink these days. That being said if a game is really, really, really good then I will play it inspite of it being TB. BG3 is one of those. I don't mind some TB combat but when you have too much combat it becomes a major slog to get through each fight and a massive time sink. DDOS2 was too many long fights. I don't know what BG3 will be like when released but the EA version was a decent balance for me - plenty of things to do outside of combat, ways to avoid combat, and hence when you did have to fight it wasn't as painful.

In fact I would go as far as saying I enjoyed some of the TB fights in BG3 they were done so well. Having 100 hours now in BG3 I have gotten pretty good at it, although it helps I know a lot of what is comping. That being said I still prefer RTwP.

Not a big fan of Divinity Games. Played a few, never finished one of them although got about 95 done on DDOS2 before the TB finally did me in and I uninstalled.

Hardly a purist either. But I did enjoy the BG games and played them many times over when they came out.

I see BG3 as simply a new RPG fantasy game that ticks all the right boxes for me and don't really care who the developer is. I judged the game on its own merits - a fun fantasy game based on AD&D style settings.

Pretty good review, I didn't read into it all the things that… people seemed to read into it. I'm a "tabletop D&D purist" when it comes to D&D games; obviously the worst of the bunch. What can I say; when I buy a game claiming to use the D&D ruleset I get excited because I love that ruleset, I know that ruleset, I've been gaming with that ruleset for over three decades now and I love to play games that use it. I loved the SSI Gold Box games for that reason. I loved BG1 and 2 for that reason even though they were RTwP. I loved Pathfinder: Kingmaker for the adherence to Pathfinder rules, and I loved it even more when they added in a turn-based mode.

I spent a *lot* of time and money on games like this, often supporting them in EA or however else I can, so I can see why they'd want to cater to people with my tastes if they're doing a D&D game it seems like a no-brainer to not tick off the people who would be interested in that game due to the ruleset. Otherwise, don't claim you're using the ruleset. I went into Wasteland 3 and PoE with their different rulesets just fine, because they weren't claiming to be using 3.5 OGL rules or 5E or whatever.

If you're going to make a game based on a tabletop ruleset, do it well. Copy the feeling of the tabletop game. Solasta and BG3 both do this, but right now Solasta is definitely doing a better job of it.

Well I wont post a long winded reply so I'll summarize it for y'all. I don't give a shit about rule-sets and dice they ruin CRPGs especially this RPG. Also TB RPGs are the relic.

Anyway I'm a proud Hardcore Baldur's Gate purist. Get off my lawn.;)

Now excuse me while I go play NWN 2 again.:)

I also like the rule sets a lot having played a lot of the pen and paper. But I also expect there to be a difference between playing a game with friends around a table versus on a computer. They can share the rule set while also adapting to the different environment that serves up the game. So I don't expect them to be identical.

BG3 impresses me with its many layers and ways to solve a problem but to reveal some of that would be major spoilers. But a high level vague example is I thought I had exhausted all the different ways to manage the Druid Grove. But tonight I found a letter … and from there found a whole new approach.

That being said based on what I know of the rule set BG3 is flexible and a bit loser with them. I haven't played Solasta, yet, but based on what people are saying it sounds like they stick to the rules closer.

If all that mattered to me were the rules I would probably like Solasta more as well. But I look for a lot more in games then how closely they follow a ruleset designed around a different medium.

I like it but it runs like ass for me and just too unstable to be enjoyable at the moment. It should have been just called 'Baldur's Gate: Insert Subtitle' xD. I'm glad that playing it made me want to play the older games again. Unninstalled BG3 and I'm on Siege of Dragonspear right now.
Also since the game is on early access and many things will change in a year, didn't feel like giving definitive judgments on a lot of things. Some of the problems I've originally mentioned have already been patched up by the time this preview was published.

Yes I know RTwP is still loved by many. But I find them too hectic in party based RPGs even with all the micromanaging. That's why I carefully wrote 'in my opinion' (the ironic Internet bulletproof vest) Tried Pillars 2 and Kingmaker in turn based and haven't gone back since.

Good thing you said NWN2 and not NWN 1. I'd have to magic missile you then 😉

BG1 Those were the days. We've come a long way.:biggrin:

https://preview.redd.it/32mxexjk5jv5…=webp&5d643c26https://preview.redd.it/32mxexjk5jv5…=webp&3514838f

You know what? For all the shit I give Beamdog, the Enhanced Editions have come a long way. I'd even say that they're the definitive way to play the games in 2020. Some of the QoL features are just awesome. The new NPCs except Dorn kinda suck from a writing perspective but you can just easily ignore them.

I still play NWN as well mostly due to the campaign mods still released. So my sorcerer shall cast the most Op spell TIME STOP and instant kill you with DISINTEGRATE.:cool:
True Beam-dog gave them a more modern upgrade. I'm reluctant to admit that's why I bought them again. As the mods to upgrade the originals are a pain to install.

I bought the Enhanced edition when it came out and didn't touch it since. Any recommended story modules that are actually good?

Depends what's your preference in mods? Combat focused or story?

I did share a list of recommended mods a few years back.

Link - https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/show…&postcount=252

I'd choose to start with The Aielund Saga & Vis et Virtus Series.

Definitely story! I'll check it out

Huh? What kind of potato are you running it on? My system is fairly modest by today's standards, and the game runs completely smooth (and stable) for me on the highest settings.

Gtx 1070, i5 8400, 16 gigs ram
It's not just me. It's running like ass for most of my friends as well. Massive stuttering. Blighted Village makes the fps drop down to 20s. No change even if I drop the settings. Tried reinstalling, changing from SSD to HDD and vice versa but no avail. Searched the forums and lots of other people with good PCs are having the issues too

It runs fine for most people.

'Most' isn't all. Why would I give it a plus point for performance if it runs bad for me and it isn't a problem from my end ? That wouldn't make any sense.

RTwP is considered "a relic" by some because some people considered a limitation of the infinity engine at the time. But the infinity engine games were so beloved that some people start liking the combat system.

The problem with the computer version not following the same style of the PnP is that when you advertise a video game based on a PnP RPG game, the fans of the tabletop game are going to expect that the game stick close to the rules. Furthermore, it is not about purism, the rules were made to work in TB so the system will work better in TB.

I honestly enjoyed lots of RTwP games, including the most recent one, PF:K. I don't think that RTwP is terrible. But I think the TB in PF:K was an improvement. In my first playthrough of PF:K I noticed that I wasn't able to enjoy the tanks of my party very much, because I spent most of the time in combat controlling the spellcasters. In my second run tho I could enjoy all members of my party equally. Another thing that really annoys me in RTwP is that I have to keep running away from the enemies with my spellcasters all the time, otherwise they get killed. This is really annoying, doesn't feel natural and it doesn't happen in TB video games.

Tbh, the more experience I have with cRPGs the more limited I think RTwP is. I don't know if it is the fact that I am getting older and I don't have the same reflex/attention capacity that I once had to monitor so many things at once, or if I just started to realize that TB feels better for me. But I get I so many people prefer RTwP, it is more fast-paced, for better or for worse. The only thing I don't get is why so many complain that the games take longer? Even if your time is limited, you have more gameplay time to fill your limited free time for a longer, why the rush to beat the game? :p

Couldn't have put it better

Runs poorly for me too. If I have it auto detect my settings, it maxes everything out and it runs like absolute shit. I've had playable results after I updated my graphics drivers and tweaked a few things, but it's still jerky, especially during cut scenes, and textures often load in slowly.

Did I say it was all? Most is most, and most people aren't having performance issues to that degree. It's that simple.

I noticed you also claimed Solasta runs "terrible" for you as well. Are there any games that don't run poorly on your system?

Solasta runs decently. That comment was meant for this thread. Hence I removed it. Also, the preview is based on 'my' experience, not most people's. It's also as simple as that. Just because you're not having issues doesn't mean the game is optimized for the bazillion combination of PC parts out there.

Not sure why you'd make that comment and then backpeddle on it, but ok.
Since you seem to be having these issues with more than one game, you might want to see if there's something you can do to better optimize your system.

Who said I'm having issues with more than one game? I removed that comment because that was meant for BG3, not Solasta. I typed it there accidentally instead of here. I'm sure the fault is with the game, not my PC. If I was reviewing it on a potato PC, I'd not even mention the performance aspect but an i5 and 1070 should clearly be more than enough to run BG3 well. Just checked steam hub again and it's not just me :p

I misunderstood what you were saying.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. It's odd that your issues are that bad on that system. They shouldn't be.

Well if it was just an isolated case, I'd agree but It's not just me. Check the forums yourself and you'll see people having the same issue as me, it's especially worse after the last hotfix. If it runs bad on my specs and all of my efforts to rectify it has failed, then how is it the fault of my system? Clearly, the game isn't optimized for my hardware.

I didn't say it was just you, but it's obviously a minority. I just checked the forums myself, and to be honest, there really aren't that many people talking about it, especially when you consider how many people are playing this.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878445108529/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878446607440/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878441062963/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878441062963/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…53344568049780
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…3344564963769/

These are threads just from the general discussions. There are more in the Technical problems section

Obviously, it's a minority that's having the issues but that doesn't mean the issues aren't there. It's the fault of the developers and it should be fixed.

Here are some more. I just got tired of copy pasting lol
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878444919331/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878444919331/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…8135410214170/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…1480495441890/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…8135415046633/

Yes, and it's still a very small minority when you consider how many people are playing this.

Again, did I say no one was having any issues?

Of course they should be fixed, and of course it's the devs that should do it. Who else would? You seem to have a gift for stating the obvious. :)

Uh wasn't it you that assumed that I was having the issues because I was running it on a potato? Nice railroading to make it seem that the problem is with the people that are playing the game, not the game itself :3

The potato comment was a joke. I wasn't joking about optimizing your system though. I'm running a GTX 1080, i7 4790, and 16 GB. Not a big difference from what you have. Like I said, it runs completely smooth for me with everything maxed.

It was just a suggestion though. Didn't realize you'd get butthurt over it. :)

What are we going around in circles? It runs fine for you, good. It doesn't for me and I'm sure the problem is with the game and not with my PC being poorly optimized. Other games wouldn't run well if it was the case.
Plus, Why would I get butthurt over a stranger's comment on the internet? I just stated the facts. I appreciate the feedback, for real. I am waiting to upgrade my CPU when the new Ryzen chips launch

All I said was that it doesn't run fine for me and lots of other people. I even showed you the threads. You're the one going on about how I have to optimize my system :p
Also, what's this about 'making it more?'. I appreciate a good discussion. I didn't mean to insult you or anything if you took it the wrong way. Ask @Couchpotato - I like to think of myself as a very friendly guy. I appreciate each and every feedback <3

I think it's pretty obvious that we were both going on about things. It's all good though. :)

For me, more is not always better, and some games exceed my boredom threshold quite easily. I haven't played through any of the games that were designed for RTwP in TB mode, but I expect that the volume of combat at the slower pace would burn me out long before I'd enjoyed all the content.

This plus I prefer to not spend all the time I play a game in combat. I enjoy a lot of other things besides combat.

TB combat takes a very long time, especially big battles. I prefer long games and I have hundreds, actually thousands, of hours in many games. I just don't want 99% of it to feel like combat because TB takes so long.

I can pause with RT and do very well. Sometimes for some boss fights I agree TB can be better as you get more control. There are times now and then I like TB for strategy and control.

I already indicated I have actually enjoyed (*gasp*) some of the TB combat in BG3. After DDOS2 I expected to grow to loath it again but the opposite happened - I started to enjoy it. Because I think BG3 is far better balanced for TB then DDOS2 was. I also think they struck the right balance of combat to "other things" ration so the game didn't feel like it was just one big long fight.

In general my issue with TB is pretty simple - I don't like it because of the time it can take. Some nights I may be in the mood for a good strategic battle and then TB is often better. But that also means the only play time I get is maybe that one battle and perhaps a quest. I like to move forward in games.

I am the opposite of those who say they prefer TB because of age. I am 56 years old with slow reflexes. But I find pausing to view things and then queue orders works just fine.

From all the TB discussions I see here I think it really comes down to some people love combat more than others. Those who love combat don't mind focusing on it in the game and hence prefer TB mode for the strategy and because they WANT to spend time in combat.

I want to spend my time exploring, doing quests, reading lore, uncovering secrets, making characters, leveling up, getting to know companions, and have some fun really big battles with a bunch of smaller ones that don't drag out too long. My TB fights in BG3 averaged from 15 mins to 2 and half hours (for the longest with reloads included due to deaths or obvious fact I wasn't going to make it). Long battles mean you are locked in. You can't save and leave the game.

It isn't that I think TB is bad or wrong or horrible. I simply don't like it that much anymore because I don't want to be locked into combat constantly. I'm not sitting around with all my friends rolling dice and laughing and telling jokes or sharing lore while we fight and it doesn't matter really how much progress is made as its more about being with people.

When playing a computer game I am not doing that (if SRPG). I also think one can enjoy a ruleset for a game without expecting it to be an exact match to the ruleset on a different medium. Simple as that. I expect a game that promises to use a ruleset to stick fairly close but also to adapt to the computer. I think TB or RTwP are both viable combat options for a rule set being played on a computer, even though I see TB as more of a relic. I find RTwP more immersive and realistic. But it mainly comes down to time commitment.

In my younger days I could spend hours on end planning out combat moves and hence enjoyed TB more. Now I have more limited time and I guess patience for spending long hours in a game doing just combat. I like combat but not like many around here seem to - it feels like the big TB supporters love combat the most in games versus other parts.

All that said I have to admit the combat in BG3 has grown on me and I can't oppose TB as vehemently as I used to.

I suspect DDOS2 really soured me on TB combat as it was the last big combat game that was TB, after not playing TB for so long, and it brought back all the things I disliked about TB - the long battles, the reloads once you realize you most likely won't win, the constant fights, how long it takes for large battles as each enemy AI plans out its move.

I doubt I will ever become a TB promoter or big fan but BG3 has at least gotten me to enjoy that style of combat again even if I still prefer RTwP given a choice.