Baldur's Gate 3 - Panel from Hell 2
 

Learn more about the upcoming Baldur's Gate 3 patch:

More information.

The more, the merrier :) Though I must confess I never liked to roleplay as a druid when I played tabletop with friends, no matter the Edition (AD&D 2nd/D&D 3rd/D&D 5th, these were the editions I played tabletop).

I wonder what they are doing to improve Tielfings.

Let it be said all I really care about is a release date at this point. As I have zero interest in playing anymore Early Access content. I made my opinion obvious about EA before.

Nothing but hype and waiting years for a game to be content complete.:rolleyes:

When you say "content complete" I think you're referring to DLCs and such, right? So you won't be playing it before a Director's Cut / Ultimate Cut gets released? (Honest question)

Honest answer it depends but in Larian's case I'll probably play it on release. As they don't really release much DLC they just remaster their games with patches/updates.:)

*Release meaning when it's off Early Access.

I must admit that today I got concerned about the release date watching the stream. They were all teasing about this next BIG UPDATE. When in fact it is just another class. I felt mislead. Don't get me wrong, I do imagine the amount of work that implementing the Druid class must require. And I don't want the game to be rushed at all. But there are several core classes and races that were not implemented yet. Furthermore, I have no idea how much chapters 2 and 3 are completed. So, the way I see it there is tons of work left to do and this game won't probably be releasing this year…

I'm not really paying much attention to these updates any longer since I don't plan on playing anymore until it's released. Despite how tempting it is, I'm staying away so more of the game will be new to me when it's finished.

I am very much interested in this game but I have no interest in playing early access or in finding out any details about the game, other than release date (I'm not counting on any date but hopefully within the next year or two … when it's ready only).

Even so, I watched bits of this video and it seemed fun. I am glad that the developers are apparently enthusiastic about the game enough to have events to share with fans.

I'll probably wait for the release as well, or several major updates. They didn't seem interested in people reporting issues, and there's little interest for me to revisit more of the EA.

I watched a little part of the stream but the sound was so bad I left. I think they already had this problem last time, it's surprising they went into so much trouble setting a background (and feeding a cow :D) but didn't try to find a decent microphone.

Did they say if they wanted to add many other classes and races? If they do release this year, it looks like it's going to be a close one.

Pretty underwhelming for a "big update". If this was owlcats they would be talking about adding 5 new classes, 20 subtypes and 10 new subraces and completing another chapter of the story…

Let's wait for the actual update before criticizing ;)

I really like Owlcat Games' way of keeping us informed, they're really great! But I'm not sure what you mean, is it from the alpha 2 to the beta, or between beta updates? The last ones did add improvements, but not the extent you suggest. It wouldn't be wise to unleash so much at once anyway, and it would also mean more distant updates.

Don't forget it's the type of Early Access in which they will deliberately keep a lot of development under wraps until the final release to keep the interest up.

Strange update. Is it too small?

Woah, based on the latter video they are adding a lot of stuff! See @Couchpotato, they listened to you and will make it possible to turn RNG off when you fail too much ;)

This game is just getting more and more complex. I am curious to see how they'll manage to keep it together given so many interwoven systems. I loved what they had done to the rogue class and now they seem to do the same for the druid. I never played a druid in BGs because it seemed like a filler class. If you really can shapeshift and the environment responds to your shape (like the dog talking to you being a wolf), I will certainly do one play-through as a druid. In principle, it should be my favorite class but no game has done it right yet.

The early-access of BG3 was my GotY of 2020. I have not enjoyed any game as much as I enjoyed that one in a long time. There is no chance that v1.0 would be released this year, at least not in a playable form given the complexity. May it be my GotY of 2022 or 2023 :) Looking forward to it whenever it releases :)

Damn right they did the grumpy potato got his way again.:p

Seriously though I have a trainer already that bypassed that.

Link - https://www.cheathappens.com/72193-P…Gate-3-trainer

Also a cheaper more user unfriendly version is alas available for use.

Link - https://www.wemod.com/cheats/baldurs-gate-3-trainers

You nailed why I hate early access and prefer the old way of publishing games. ;)

I found the panel pretty disappointing. If you look at Larian's forum's there's a very active community (with both moderate and extreme views of course) making well thought out and implementable proposals to help steer the game towards 5E (D&D) - with some semblance of balance … you know, using 5E rules that have been play-tested and demonstrably work? None of those glaring issues with the mechanics were even acknowledged ( e.g. "we've taken note of X, and we're thinking of a good a compromise..') and the WotC guy they had just nodded and smiled and reminded us, that 'table-top is very different from a cRPG and we must expect changes!' Duh Sure, there are cases where that is required, but many of the changes Larian have made are just arbitrary, balance breaking showyness - there for the wow factor (and because they like incendiaries) Usually I'm amused by Sven's antics, but they seems a bit forced this time and I bailed when he started his playthrough. The new druid wildshape already looks unbalanced .cf. cat shoves goblin off roof. I don't have high expectations going forward anymore. I'm also afraid of how the unseen content and levels will play out, given that those won't have been through EA/sanity check at all.
Mods can address some of this, but there are still no proper reactions, or mention of them (just their arbitrary auto-fire reactions- which are pretty terrible), and I don't know how well mods can add such things in. And of course, all the set piece encounters are designed around their cheesy mechanics, so those would have to be redone too. Then again, maybe I'm being too negative…this is EA, maybe the game will miraculously turn around and become what I hoped? I really doubt it will be done this year though.

To be honest, most of this is basically playtesters paying for the privilege.
For people who just want to play the final product, the only need is to wait.

Nice! Druid is often my go-to PC class for these type of games.

If only - at least companies usually listen to their play testers! I don't see any fundamental shift in the game mechanics happening. I think they have their heart set on their 'style' of play and that's what we'll get. Sure, if I didn't go in expecting a 'proper' D&D 5E games, I'd be less disillusioned and still enjoy it, but I did and now I'm pretty unhappy with what I see. Anyway, my moaning isn't going to change anything, I realise that.

True but the hype gets to large and the games end up getting spoiled to easily. In the olden days you got an announcement, previews, interviews, and it was released.

I'm fond of how Bethesda announced games like Skyrim and Fallout 4. They used E3, showed a few videos, and it was released a few months later. Perfect combination.

Early Access works completely different.:(

I'm in no rush for this, and after their last two productions, I'll be taking a hard look at this one before plunking down cash. I hope I'm wrong and with this one I'd love to see them return to better days, but I just don't see it happening.

Early access and CD Projekt Red ;)

Yes, hyping is getting out of hand these days. Perhaps we should deploy some kind of Protection from Hype spell :P

I am not sure I agree with you here. Didn't they change how cantrips work based on feedback?

I have heard that Bethesda released some games with so many bugs that is not so different from Early Access. :P

Yep CP2077 proved hype can kill a game. Announcing it to early doesn't help as well.
Those aren't bugs they are a feature.:p

Anyway Larian's games are buggy as hell for years as well. Go read the patch logs. So the conclusion taken from facts is Early Access doesn't help in that department either.

We have different recollections of the olden days. I remember buying gaming magazines with games in it that didn’t release for a year or 2. I think the difference was back then you had to search for the info and now it’s shoved in your face at every turn. So back then it was very possible to have games seem like they just released out of nowhere and now you have announcements of announcements to tell you they are coming.

I’m not sure about fallout 4 but Skyrim was announced almost a year ahead release.

I personally don’t mind EA. I feel like all games are early access anyway. Even full release games get several patches and an enhanced or definitive edition which is very different from the released version mechanics wise.

Yeah seems people either love, hate, or be neutral about Early Access. Reminds me of the 10 man joke how nine will have the same opinion but the tenth man wont agree.;)

Just like those commercials who say 9/10 doctors agree it works.:lol:

That and allowing an extra (redundant) short rest (since you can always long rest instead) are about the only rule changes I can recall. Both very simple to do, low hanging fruit, that wouldn't really upset anyone. But the 'difficult' rules issues have been ignored (so far at any rate). I think they're too afraid of deviating from the formula that was so successful in DOS. I should say I loved DOS - it was the TB game that made me interested in playing TB RPG's (well, except for ToEE which was great, except for the actual RPG ;) I was just hoping for something more like actual D&D - much as I love BG1/2, were from a simpler era and I have higher expectations now. 5E is the simplest D&D type rule system for awhile (3.0, 3.5, PF are extremely complex imho) - a good mapping to PC. Solasta has shown this already, on a shoe-string budget (by comparison). So I think that either (1) Larian don't want to implement balanced 5E gameplay (because it's 'not fun' - which I disagree with cf. Solastata ) or (2) they don't really know how, because beyond being turn-based, 5E is quite far from what they did for DOS1/2. I think they were expecting the transition from DOS engine to 5E turn-based to be simple and correspond closely to the way they did in DOS. But is didn't, and now they're trying to decide what to do about that…and with deadlines, pressure, share-holders (maybe?!) they may take the path of least resistance.

Look at the Larian forum mega-threads to see what I'm talking about (think you may need a forum account). There's a lot of detailed discussion there about how broken many systems are, as well as suggestions on how to fix them as simply as possible. Or potential compromises etc.

When you say simpler era there, do you mean in terms of rulesets or the games themselves? If it's the latter, I have to disagree. The only thing that was simpler about that era was the visuals. Game complexity has been in a near constant decline since then.

Today's games don't seem nearly as complex; well maybe Path of Exile. I remember Eternal Dagger, Ultima IV, Shard of Spring and such all having very complex rules behind the game engine. Ooh, how about Nahlakh and Natuk with the weapon system? That was brutal but also brilliant. Graphics were really basic though and I can't make myself go back that far graphically very often. My favorite game for years and years was MM3 but I just can't do it anymore. Even mm6-8 are rough to play nowadays.

As far as D:OS3 Baldur's Gate, we'll see. Larian doesn't look like a great fit. I'm hopeful the Solasta folks are profitable enough to make more content for Solasta and more games. I'm also hopeful Pathfinder might make a game or two w/o kingdom building. I just couldn't get past that part (bored) in the first one.

Here here, mates! I quite agree with the complexity comments these days, a button mashing fest is nothing I crave. I just finished a game called Operencia and, while I do have some complaints about the game, one part I really enjoyed were the puzzles and quests. A few of them really stumped me for a time, in ways that I'd not experienced in a long while. Complexity is a nice caveat.

What kind of complexity are you referring to ?

Complexity in general.

The sort of complexity I think back on usually involved using spells, potions, abilities etc in interesting and unexpected ways to beat an encounter. If the rules are sufficiently simulationist this is entirely possible. I think Larian games are very strong with this aspect myself so I'm happy tinkering around with stuff. Fallout and Baldurs Gate were also strong with this so I think they are proving themselves worthy enough successors. UI needs lots of refinement through. For a complex game UI is usually hard to get right.

I see what you mean and I agree with you. They did change somethings based on feedback but not everything that we would like to. But the way you put it before sounded like they don't listen at all, which is not true.

I have an account and I gave them my feedback in the first month of EA.

What bothers me the most about Larian's ruleset implementation so far is the resting system. Why on earth did they decide to do it like that? You can long-rest anytime, anywhere. Why? Additionally, they limited short rests in which you regain half your HP. Why not just use the hit dice system from 5e? It is just better. Solasta did it and it works just fine in a video game. So that excuse that "somethings don't work in a video game" is just not true.

Asking for feedback does not mean they're obligated to change everything (or anything). It may surprise you to find out that players are not always right about good design choices, nor do they all agree on what changes should be implemented.

(this comment is directed at various people in the thread, not one in particular and certainly not gabrielarantest)

My guess? Because it's tedious to do otherwise, for one, and because for a lot of players of P&P campaigns, they pretty much do the same thing. I know for a fact that I don't want to have to hike back to some pre-determined safe zones every time I want to rest. Of course, you can keep it from being trivial in other ways (like a chance to be attacked at night), but I don't know how they're handling that sort of thing, now or in the future.

In that case, the best alternative would be to implement an option for players like you that don't like moving around to rest and another for players like me that like this restriction.

Or then it is some kind of strategy to foster the formula that took the company thus far (i.e. making D:OS3 in Baldur's Gate skin). Being able to sleep anywhere is just dumb and is one of those things that will make people mock the game as D:OS3. They could easily fix that if they wanted. In general, the camp thingie they have going on functions poorly and is immersion breaking as it is now. Another dumb thing is the eternal day. They are introducing all sorts of talk with death/animals/plants through voice-acting and fancy cut-scenes things. "Too much work" is not an excuse. If something was deemed too much work, the cut-scenes would have been a good place to spare resources. They increase the immersion and are really cool if they work but are not necessary.

There were a lot more dumb things in the game but I took them as "oh well, this is early access". I guess I'll get annoyed by them in v1.0. I share your concerns people. Despite that, this game will be awesome even if they decided to make it D:OS3 as it seems atm.

That doesn't clarify anything…

BG3 has a very complex structure, everything from character creation to interdependent quests, systems and character interaction.

If that's all you can say then I'd have to wager you're looking at old games with rose tinted glasses.

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