Temple of Elemental Evil party creation.
 

Has anyone played ToEE recently enough to remember the basic do's and don'ts of character creation? I haven't played it in over a decade, and my general knowledge of 3.5 Edition is a little rusty.

So far, my general outline is..

Two solid melee fighters. The first will probably be a pure Fighter, while the second will be either a Barbarian, Ranger, or Monk.

A pure Cleric.

1 pure caster, but I'm undecided between Wizard or Sorcerer.

A Rogue.

I'd really like to have a Druid as well, but it's a 5 character party. I'm wondering if I can go without a Rogue and just get by with less points in the Open Locks and Disable Device skills.

When I gave it a serious go I had a paladin, a ranger, a fighter, a cleric, a wiz and a rogue and got as far as level 2 of the temple with it often being quite challenging to keep them all alive - there was a swamp encounter with giant frogs that I got TPK'd over and over, not the moathouse somewhere else.

I did have Circle of Eight installed. I think the characters were 5th/6th level when I stopped playing. I think the XP is set so smaller party might level up faster - not 100% on that tho. Using missile weapons at the low levels were a must.

Honestly can't remember how necessary the rogue was. Considering the game is kind of old school then probably is.

I have no idea about spoilers in a 20 year old game but, yes, the frog battle is a killer and one of the toughest challenges in the game, mostly because you also trigger a bunch of lizardmen and possibly even a giant shark thing as well, and the frog itself is no picnic. It's one of the quests you get in Nulb, the second settlement you visit prior to getting to the actual temple.

I didn't finish the game (estimate halfway based on others) but started a multitude of parties and did the first couple towns before settling & I had the Circle of Eight installed.

Ranger
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Cleric

Felt like I couldn't have lived w/o the Rogue because of lockpick/trap loot, xp, and playstyle (hate leaving areas unexplored due to lack of lockpick).

Hindsight I could have probably traded the wizard for sorc without noticing a diff. I couldn't have done it without one pure magic user, I kinda wish I had two in most areas. Don't think I could have traded a druid for anything except maybe the ranger.

I considered :
Fighter
Druid
Wizard
Sorc
Rogue
But felt the lack of healing items I found in the farthest run was too low to be feasible. Maybe bad RNG? Maybe its because I horde inventory like a packrat.

I run with three melee at a minimum, and counting a rogue that usually makes it four. You seriously want one very solid cleric, and I go with a wizard over a sorcerer. And both casters gotta be able to melee too, no sissies in my parties!!

One of those must have been an NPC, because the max party size for PCs is 5.

Yeah, the giant frogs are tough for a low-level party. I took a party of pregenerated characters to the moathouse last night and got crushed by 3 of them. I hadn't done any of the quests in Hommlet though and had only the starting equipment.

I have CO8 installed and the Temple+ patch as well. You're correct about the XP. It's split among party members and that includes any NPCs travelling with you.

I'm the same way. I'm exploring the possibility of just giving my Fighter some levels as a Rogue, but I'm not sure about the penalties of multiclassing in 3.5e

What sucks about 3.5e is that the number of skillpoints you start with, as well as how many you gain each time you level up, is modified by the character's Int. That makes Int important for pretty much every character and especially Rogues. Thing is, Rogues also need high Dex and Charisma (if you want them to be your talker, and they seem to be the best class for that). So Rogues don't really have any dump stats if you want them to be decent in combat as well.

Download Co8 and you can have eight people in your party. There's an option to have more characters. If you make eight character you can't pick up any NPC's. So I usually make seven. I multi-class my rogue with a fighter to make them a nice archer also.

Have a fighter that specializes in a 2-handed weapon like glaive or long spear for the reach attacks when mobs get near. I like a ranger that is all archery. Great bows and archer items in the game.

I like Sorc over a wizard and don't forget about crafting items. Makes the game a lot easier. You could use the Knock spell if you want to get by without a rogue. Don't forget to have a nice blunt weapon for someone because the skeletons can be a pain.

I have played ToEE many times and you will have to do some battles over just because of bad rolls. Charm and sleep spells can save your ass.

You can have the Paladin be the talker if you want to go the good route.

Wouldn't a multiclass rogue / ranger be an alternative to the 2nd fighter?

Yes, either can work. The fighter will get you extra feats and the Ranger has their own set of advantages at 2nd lvl.

Nod, a duel-classed fighter/rogue is a solid option. They'll level a bit slower yet bring a lot to the team right from the bat.

When I used to play 3.5 I would start all my characters out as fighters for the extra HP and weapon specialization. Can’t remember when I’d switch over I think level 4 then I’d level to 4 in the primary class and I’d have access to it’s abilities.

It’s been so long though that might not be in entirely accurate and I don’t remember If you level up enough in TOEE for that to work.

I forgot about that. I have the CO8 (standard version) installed, but I don't really like making those kind of changes to the game. I'm trying to keep it as close to original as possible while getting all the bugfixes.

I plan on having at least one fighter with a 2-hander. A good 2-hander + Combat Reflexes + Greater Cleave should equal a nice can of whoopass.

That's only after you get the crafting feat, right? What's the Spellcraft skill for?

For Rangers, how does the Tracking feat work, and is there actually much use for it in ToEE? Ditto for Animal Companion.

For me it has been a while, but as far as I remember, one strong melee fighter should be enough. So you can still realize your other ideas. I always like to have spells for a few summons (e.g. skeletons, or animals), who can also work as melee units. Against groups of weaker enemies several of your characters can also go into melee if necessary (clerics, rogues).

I thought you have full access to any class abilities as soon as you add another class in 3.5. I could be wrong about that though. There's a -20% XP penalty for most races though if you multiclass and one of the classes is greater than 1 level difference from the other. That doesn't apply if one of the classes is the favored class of that race.

With CO8 installed, the level cap is 20. I'm only using the basic mod though and not the one that adds a bunch of extra content. That being the case, I'm not sure what level I can hit by the end of the game, but I doubt it will be higher than 13 or 14.

I don't think there is a lot of use for tracking in ToEE. Animal companion is nice to get an animal to fight for your team, a pet.

I think casters get the create a wondrous item at lvl 5. Yes, you need to use feats for the different items. I usually just get the ones for armors, weapons, and wondrous objects. I don't mess with the create wands and rods. Not big on scrolls or potions either but that is just my play style.

I may be getting the original game confused with the Co8 extra content and also Keep on the Borderlands. I have played all of them a few times each.

The choices are kind of wierd though because in addition to animals like wolf, polar bear, dog, etc, you can also choose a lizard or a chicken. I'm having a hard time imagining what good a chicken is going to do in the temple. :)

So after spending a feat to get it, you then have to spend additional feats for the categories you want? Seems like a steep investment.

That’s multi-classing. Dual classing was different. You would actually change classes. For instance you could be fighter level 4 and rouge level 16 for 20 total level. One you switch to rouge though you’d only have your HP from being a fighter. Once you reached level for you’d have access to all your fighter abilities.

I used it a lot in nwn, especially after DLC allowed you to go to level 40 I believe.

I'm familiar with dual-classing, but that was in 2nd Edition. ToEE uses the 3.5E ruleset.

Hmm, it was? Sorry must be getting my versions mixed up. It was too long ago.

I have both Temple+ and the Circle of Eight mods installed. I think the vanilla game had 3 slots for the recruitable premade characters. But one of these mods unlocks those slots at the beginning so you can actually start with 8 player created characters if you want.

Either way, it's definitely a good idea to bring along some extra human shields… I mean, friends, for the tougher fights.

Many of the recruitable companions are mercenaries and will take a share of your loot for as long as they're with you. There's a couple of female characters one of your male party members can marry. One of them is a druid girl and I don't think she takes any loot, most of them will take some of your coins and there's a wizard who takes the scrolls you find for payment.

Temple+ adds some prestige classes and new base classes so it's worth checking out if you'd like some more options in how to build your characters.

Good aligned party that I'm pretty far with: Human paladin, Dwarf Fighter / D. Defender, Elven Wizard / Eldritch Knight, Human Sorcerer / Cleric / Mystic Theurge, Elven Bard / Arcane Archer

For recruitables I also currently have the aforementioned Druid Girl, a human fighter, and a wizard I use mainly for crafting magical items. A few others died along the way.

You really don't need a rogue in this game. Locks and traps are pretty rare. I think there's a thief or two you can hire if you find a chest you can't open or something. But otherwise can just use knock spell.

I still haven't started my game because I keep getting distracted by other games, but I've got my party ready. It's looks like I'm going with…

Male Elf Ranger
Male Dwarf Fighter
Female Half-Elf Rogue
Female Human Cleric
Male Human wizard

Pretty generic I know. I really wanted a Druid too, but I don't want to modify the game too much, and that includes sticking with a 5 character party. I might pick up the Druid NPC at some point.

JDR, your planned group looks very similar to how I run in that game, usually three melee, one poor simp regulated to be the token mage, and one solid healer. I think you'll go far with that group!

One more thing about your Druid bride… She has only 8 strength which means she can barely carry any equipment without being encumbered. I equipped her with leather armor and sling as that's all she can handle. Might want to craft some gauntlets of ogre power or girdle of giant strength for her.

I mostly just want to check out the Druid Wildshape ability. I think it was largely useless in the vanilla game, but Temple+ supposedly makes it scale a lot better.

I finally started playing in earnest this week, and my party just hit level 4. It's amazing how this game goes from mind-numbingly boring to utterly fantastic once you gain a level or two and get out of the starting area.

I love the variety of old-school D&D monsters, and the random encounters are great. I've yet to encounter the same mix of enemies twice. The music is also better than I remembered and fits the areas perfectly.

This game has aged a lot better than I was expecting. Of course it helps that it finally works as intended.

Are you playing it unmodded?

I love ToEE to death in terms of atmosphere and old-school PnP vibe - but it was way too rough in its original version.

That said, how can you not love the moat house music? :)

It depends what you consider mods. I'm using both CO8 and Temple+ but just the basic versions. In that way, they're more like patches than mods. I don't have any new content enabled.

And yeah, the music in the moat house is great. I just did that area last night. I like how different the soundtrack is compared to other D&D games. :)

Interestingly enough, it's the only RPG the composer, Ron Fish, ever worked on. He also did the music for Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City.

Glad you are enjoying ToEE all patched up. It's just a fantastic game once you get used to the UI and the combat.

The random encounters are a huge part of what I enjoy about this most excellent game! Just reading these posts kind of has me itching to replay it yet again.

My next run is going to be using the mods you refer to here, as I've played it vanilla twice now and been underwhelmed both times.

However, I will be looking to treat it as a completely different game so I will be looking for the mods that add new decent content and remove the crap content *cough Hommlet*. Even if the mods made the rest of the game 10/10 I still couldn't bare to step foot in Hommlet for 1 second more. :D

Yeah, Hommlet is pretty rough to get through. The NC version of the CO8 patch adds a new area (Welkwood Bog) for a level 1 party to gain experience through combat.

I could never play ToEE vanilla again. Even the basic versions of those mods make a huge difference. They fix important skills and feats that didn't work properly before, and the resolution bump & widescreen fix makes the game look a lot better overall. CO8 also raises the level cap which is too low in the vanilla game imo.

The Keep on the Borderlands mod is also worth a try. At least in the beginning it's a lot more interesting than Hommlet quests.

It's weird how much stuff I don't remember about this game. I'm in the village of Nulb now, and I have no recollection of this place at all from my original playthrough.

Check out the blacksmith anvil :)

Heh.. they made that way too easy to find. I made the mistake of talking to the blacksmith afterwards though. :)

Yeah, I did too.

The hill giant in Emridy Meadows is the bane of my existence right now. How can my fighter consistently miss such a large target?